Beta Patch Notes e1.6.0

[vonbalt]

Yeah but ah... if i join Vlandia i may notice that Derthert and Ingalter are not on the best terms. They are enemies. However, with time they become best buddies. Relation between lords inside a kingdom is a not-existent thing in the current state of BL.
The same goes for Raganvand and Lek, they are enemies at the start of the game, and best buddies later on. And by "later on" i mean reaching T4 with my clan.

Yeah the relationship system is barely used at all for now, battles won/lost and political disagreements in voting should play a much larger role to dynamically change relationships across the game.

Things like lords in an army gaining relations with each other if the army was doing well or losing relationship if the army was defeated, maybe tie traits to it aswell and make the army leader the one who gain or lose more relationship with everyone under his command.

 

[Phantom425]

Yep. Here's the thread dedicated to the modding changes where @Jance expressed optimism and here's my now-silent roundup thread about the whole deal. @Bloc expressed continuing frustration a couple pages back in the thread we're in now.

If I'm being quite frank, I don't think this fairly puts it into perspective. The changes in this patch were a positive, and did help out modders, Jance said so himself. This is a start, it isn't an end, but, as Jance said, it will open a lot of doors to modders.

And, to be quite frank, while I understand Bloc's annoyance at TW, his post is rather immature. While Bloc is clearly talented, I simply cannot make the things that he has, the post that he made started off with complete conjecture, which was disproven with a following post. Also, his end statement clearly shows that he thinks that modders will just make things that are better then TW, implying that they should accept that no matter what their game will never be as good as what modders can do. While I am saddened by his leaving, as he has made wonderful mods, his post was entirely immature and did not whatsoever comment on the actual contents of the patch, only the state of communication between TW and the rest of the public.

 

[chillsing]

There's a lot of dev activity unto this thread but never do they speak of ai concerns. It is safe to assume they have crossed that chapter and longer has anyone working on these problems?

 

[Apocal]

There's a lot of dev activity unto this thread but never do they speak of ai concerns. It is safe to assume it is a done deal and they don't have anyone working anything regarding it?

Which AI? I think mexxico is still in business if you see weird campaign AI behavior and have a save game available.

 

[chillsing]

Which AI? I think mexxico is still in business if you see weird campaign AI behavior and have a save game available.

Sieges & field battles (combat) we asked lot of question regarding that in this very thread.

 

[Medivhtratos]

Hope Armour is on their list. Yesterday on a looter hunt with a 250 throwing skill, I killed a looter by a headshot (horse full charge) with 2086dmg. After that I'd just went to town and logged out.

 

[Agroplode]

Hope Armour is on their list. Yesterday on a looter hunt with a 250 throwing skill, I killed a looter by a headshot (horse full charge) with 2086dmg. After that I'd just went to town and logged out.

Javelins are just insane and have been since day one and the perks just makes them WMD. I got hit for 180 in the face by a Jereed and the combat log said I had absorbed 109 damage It was in a Desert Hideout fight.

 

[Medivhtratos]

Javelins are just insane and have been since day one and the perks just makes them WMD. I got hit for 180 in the face by a Jereed and the combat log said I had absorbed 109 damage It was in a Desert Hideout fight.

It's good that they are making more dmg to shields though. A sea rider shield will break with one javelin (with high skill, charge and the right perks) but 2000dmg is just to much of a overkill.{it was a looter though, doesn't test it on armored troops}

 

[Agroplode]

It's good that they are making more dmg to shields though. A sea rider shield will break with one javelin (with high skill, charge and the right perks) but 2000dmg is just to much of a overkill.{it was a looter though, doesn't test it on armored troops}

I test weapons in the hideouts since I spend lot of time farming them. On the sea raider boss (helmet 20 armor) the lowlander javelin with about 20 skill did 220 or so damage on a headshot and with 250 skill it did 1100 damage with a headshot but if he had less than 50% health it would have activated the perk Last Hit and done 50% more damage. All shots were without much speed bonus since its the last fight. The Jereed or the best crafted Javelins would push that damage even higher.

 

[five bucks]

Sieges & field battles (combat) we asked lot of question regarding that in this very thread.

Troops using ladders incorrectly in siege battles, according to what I've seen mexxico say, isn't an AI problem. I'm not sure what he means exactly by that, but at a guess I'd say it means that the problems with troops pathing on maps is related to the navmesh of the map rather than the AI.

PS: I haven't said yet that this is a good patch. This is a good patch.

 

[Dejan]

There's a lot of dev activity unto this thread but never do they speak of ai concerns. It is safe to assume they have crossed that chapter and longer has anyone working on these problems?

Sieges & field battles (combat) we asked lot of question regarding that in this very thread.

We're working on the AI combat-related issues as can be seen in the last two patches.
e1.6.0:

• Improved AI target selection while using the mangonel.
• Fixed an issue that caused the AI to require a second charge order for it to attack and further progress into the enemy town/castle after ladders were raised or the gate broken.
• Added a scene feature that allows scene designers to override default reference positions to solve instances where the defending AI has trouble determining the enemy’s offensive approach directions due to the scene being too skewed in terms of certain reference points.
• Removed formation-related speed limits from troops when a battle ends so that they can chase fleeing enemies.

• Improved AI horse archer targeting and fixed a bug that caused AI horse archers to always miss a stationary target.
• Fixed incorrect calculations that caused mounted troops to almost always target the enemy mount, even when it would have been far easier to hit the rider.

e1.5.10:

• General Mission Related Improvements & Fixes
  • Improved the battle spawn system. The spawn distance between all types of formations has been lowered. The distance between cavalry units in regular and loose formations has also been lowered. Party/army leader heroes now spawn at the center of their forces in missions.
  • Formations were referred to according to the type of the first unit added to them which caused various inconsistencies. A more complex but accurate logic that takes into account the most numerous troop type was added.
  • Fixed a bug that caused all formations to stay in place and fight only when attacked or when enemies came close.
• Siege Mission Related Improvements & Fixes
  • Implemented a logic that makes agents choose the shorter direction (clockwise or counter-clockwise) to circumvent blocker navmeshes. The lack of this logic was most significantly shown when agents tried to move to a pushing position around a moving siege tower from the front when it would have been much easier if they went around it from the other side.
  • Fixed a bug that sometimes caused archers to not use archer positions.
  • Fixed a bug that caused attacker siege weapons to shoot at and damage their own siege towers and battering rams.
  • Fixed a bug that caused soldiers to stay in place instead of following the siege ram and towers until reaching the wall.
  • Fixed a bug that caused ranged siege weapons to sometimes choose irrelevant targets.

• Increased the flee radius to make it easier for riderless horses to flee battles.
• Improved cavalry charging AI decisions by reducing the amount of time a unit spends moving away from the enemy in certain scenarios.
• Adjusted the range calculation of range units to prevent targeting of very distant targets.
• A bug that caused formation unit frames that had no valid path to the ordered position to be accepted as valid unit frames was fixed.

 

[Lesbosisles]

@Lesbosisles You did not understand my point I dont want it to be removed, I find it useful but in certain situations an thats why I asked it as an ALT option

On the contrary, I got your point, but still I believe that the icons are good as they are now. For me, it won't be convenient to hold ALT every time I want to know what does the village produce.

 

[chillsing]

alright maybe I shouldn't have said such a blank statement given I haven't browsed prior patch notes before this one. It's really good to know it's being worked on and greatly appreciated. It just I came back to the game after a year? of hiatus and was deeply disappointed by the siege bugs still around.

 

[chillsing]

Troops using ladders incorrectly in siege battles, according to what I've seen mexxico say, isn't an AI problem. I'm not sure what he means exactly by that, but at a guess I'd say it means that the problems with troops pathing on maps is related to the navmesh of the map rather than the AI.

the pathing is naviguable, you as a player can see the object, the textures are all there, you can interact with it and not clip through it or get stuck so it's weird to not attritube to ai having trouble with it.

still have to double down on my suggestion of trying get in contact with Dreamhaven (new studio work as a consultation firm or partnership or publisher) they have a lot of dev and directors of the command&conquer and starcraft. Lot of years of experiences solving ai naviguating, destructible paths, ect. ty for your time TW and sorry for my not so great english. Only meant well because I still like the game it is very unique in it's genre.

 

[Drahtos]

How do you get clans to join your kingdom now? I'm not having much luck. I have 100 relation with many leaders too.
As you can see I own several settlements and castles right now. I have many companions too. But I'm the only clan in my kingdom.

Spoiler

Go for Lords without a fief, you can usually recruit them for 100K- 350K Gold.

 

[five bucks]

the pathing is naviguable, you as a player can see the object, the textures are all there, you can interact with it and not clip through it or get stuck so it's weird to not attritube to ai having trouble with it.

I might be misunderstanding how BL's AI works, but from what I've worked with in the Source engine, an AI won't move around on a map until you generate a "navmesh" for it which determines what spaces are walkable, the quickest way to get from A to B, and gives that information to the AI to use. This is what I mean when I say "pathing". Automatically generated navmeshes can have issues leading to the AI not walking where it should, which have to be edited manually.

My complete and utter guess- nobody repeat this as if a dev said it - is that, if Mexxico says that siege pathfinding isn't an AI problem, it may be a scene navmesh problem. In which case it would make sense why the problem is taking so long to fix, because the people who would normally fix old scenes are busy churning out new scenes so they can get the new terrain system going as fast as possible. Again, a guess.

 

[Duh_TaleWorlds]

My complete and utter guess- nobody repeat this as if a dev said it - is that, if Mexxico says that siege pathfinding isn't an AI problem, it may be a scene navmesh problem. In which case it would make sense why the problem is taking so long to fix, because the people who would normally fix old scenes are busy churning out new scenes so they can get the new terrain system going as fast as possible. Again, a guess.

Sieges are a fairly complex feature and the issues it experiences are due to a combination of both scene specific problems as well as AI quirks. Both aspects are being worked on. Devs like mexxico and me don't discuss these aspects that much, because they are combat related and we are working on the campaign.

 

[Lord Grindelvald]

Another option is hiring minor clans and another option will be added later and player will be able to create new clans from his companions (of course limited to time / player clan tier / etc).

Thats fantastic news! Imagine also quite complex to implement? Will those clans be able to leave you if they are dissatisfied with your reign? Can you then war them? Does this also count for family members? This option would add a great layer of depth, very nice.

 

[chillsing]

I might be misunderstanding how BL's AI works, but from what I've worked with in the Source engine, an AI won't move around on a map until you generate a "navmesh" for it which determines what spaces are walkable, the quickest way to get from A to B, and gives that information to the AI to use. This is what I mean when I say "pathing". Automatically generated navmeshes can have issues leading to the AI not walking where it should, which have to be edited manually.

My complete and utter guess- nobody repeat this as if a dev said it - is that, if Mexxico says that siege pathfinding isn't an AI problem, it may be a scene navmesh problem. In which case it would make sense why the problem is taking so long to fix, because the people who would normally fix old scenes are busy churning out new scenes so they can get the new terrain system going as fast as possible. Again, a guess.

Edit; I'll probably sit back and stop talking it about further given it aint my area of expertise, probably take another break and watch progress on the side. still generally optimistic

EDIT: still i thkink many of us would love a short video explain in details the problems being faced. This navmesh, creating invisible path to follow sounds way too tedious and inefficient there has to be another way I looked up after my coffee and your source engine is very old but not even the fisrt one to use that method. There has to be better ways to do this in 2021

 

[redmark]

Just a Info. In 1.6.0 your clan members(not companions), can do villages quests and can form a caravan. Tested it in sandbox. Im quite sure that you couldn't do that before this version.

Caravan is new (or newish, I hadn't played 1.5.9 - 1.5.10), but clan members with the right skill(s) have been able to do certain village quests for a long time. However, as the game progresses the skill requirements increase, so that by a certain point of the game when you really don't want to be finding a few cows for a village, the skill requirements are likely to be so high that you wouldn't have a clan member who can do it. Not sure if that issue has been fixed now, as I'm early in a new playthrough.