POLL: DLCs from Taleworlds

[Stromming]

Probably and it saddens me.

How would you even monetized a mod?

Crowdfunding is one possibility, but iirc he also mentioned that there is always the possibility of doing a VC style stand-alone release supported by TW.

Granted this was all said on a live stream on twitch before Bannerlord was even released in EA. No idea what his stance on any of this is currently.

 

[Mad Vader]

Probably and it saddens me.

How would you even monetized a mod?

By upgrading it to a DLC. Like Brytenwalda->Viking Conquest.
But he was not serious there, that's just another way of saying "I'm not interested".

 

[Stromming]

By upgrading it to a DLC. Like Brytenwalda->Viking Conquest.
But he was not serious there, that's just another way of saying "I'm not interested".

Are you sure about that?
It didn't sound to me like he wasn't interested at all, just that he isn't interested in doing any modding for free as he like everyone else has bills to pay.

You probably have more insight than me on these questions, I'm just judging by what he said and how he said it.

I went back on the PoP discord to find my message I posted just a few days after the stream (unfortunately the VOD is unavailable).

"Saxon confirmed that PoP would not be a mod for Bannerlord
It would be a DLC or something similar that can be monetised. And it would not be as PoP is today, but probably take place in a different area and time period"

 

[Adrivan]

I'm not a fan of DLC in general since games started being developed with the idea that you can leave out features to add them back in later for more money. I like Bannerlord, but it's soulless right now. If things improve by the time it's officially released, I'll likely get them. If not, it really depends on the DLC itself.

yes, they better release a game and never update it and let it die than make a DLC....
0 logic

 

[Fantomen]

If it's done the Viking Conquest way, as a cooperation with one of the best mod teams, I would probably love it and buy it the moment I see it.

If it's done as a way to cash grab for features that should have been in the base game, especially if it's combined with continued lack of mod support, then hell no.

 

[Mad Vader]

Are you sure about that?
It didn't sound to me like he wasn't interested at all, just that he isn't interested in doing any modding for free as he like everyone else has bills to pay.

You probably have more insight than me on these questions, I'm just judging by what he said and how he said it.

I went back on the PoP discord to find my message I posted just a few days after the stream (unfortunately the VOD is unavailable).

"Saxon confirmed that PoP would not be a mod for Bannerlord
It would be a DLC or something similar that can be monetised. And it would not be as PoP is today, but probably take place in a different area and time period"

When you really don't want to do something, yet people keep asking for it, you compile a good list of excuses to keep them at bay.
Or to put it another way, if you are serious about a big project, you are optimistic about overcoming obstacles and try to get something done as soon as it's possible (like what the current bunch of full conversion modders are doing).
You can draw your own conclusions without any inside info.

 

[danEN]

I like Bannerlord

these words make my ballsack shrivel up inside me

 

[BigFat]

these words make my ballsack shrivel up inside me

Even in its current extremely flawed state, I got more enjoyment out of it than any other modern game that's come out in the past 10 or so years and unlike those games, this one at least has a small chance for the devs to get their **** together + future mods to look forward to.

@Adrivan: That's not at all what I said. You do realize there was a time when DLC wasn't a thing and games were actually complete on release, right?

 

[Fate]

I know people dream of PDX style DLCs, but that studio is a competent one, TW is not. After 1 year of early access, TW can't even fix the base game and implement the simplest things. I don't believe we will see the final version for another 2 years. And if TW ever release DLCs, they will be probably new equipments and such, because this studio isn't capable of delivering anything more complex.

Don't fool yourselves guys, TW will never deliver anything PDX level. I'm 36 years old, i've been gaming for a long time, and believe me when i say TW is one of the most incompetent studios i've ever seen.

I wish PDX copied M&B concept and made a better version of it. When a studio comes up with a original concept, other studios copy it. Why not just go ahead and copy M&B concept? TW created a good concept but too incompetent to improve it, this concept deserves better studios.

This +1

 

[Aurex]

PDX model of dlc is great to me, they release a complete game (or work it to complete standards overtime) then start to release dlcs that fleshes out certain parts of the game with added detail, features and flavour.

If Taleworlds eventually works bannerlord to a satisfying "complete state" i'll buy their dlcs no problem, if they keep bannerlord too barebones then it's another story.

To each his own, I guess. But most, if not all Paradox games are shipped completely and utterly broken and never truly fixed. There's just an influx of paywalled feature bloating which (imo) gullible people gulp down like smoothies. Their whole DLC model is like Pachinko mixed with some good old Fear Of Missing Out. Most DLCs also break the game for months, if not year. Just look at EU4's last DLC.

And same for Bannerlord's DLC. If they, in the end, release a game which is really good and feature complete... maybe. On discount. Or through key resellers. As things stand I already regretted buying Bannerlord in the first place.

 

[Adrivan]

@Adrivan: That's not at all what I said. You do realize there was a time when DLC wasn't a thing and games were actually complete on release, right?

DLC does not mean making an incomplete game complete... I think you're thinking of the Early Access trend not DLCs.
A dlc is just a synonym for a game "expansion" - those were around for years, see world of warcraft.

 

[Apocal]

@Adrivan: That's not at all what I said. You do realize there was a time when DLC wasn't a thing and games were actually complete on release, right?

I'm old enough to have lived through that era (the AOL drink coaster 90s, what a time to be alive) and there was still loads of cut content just because the studio ran out of time or money or both. They also had terrible post-launch support for games: Think like having to buy a copy of Computer Gaming World because a patch was included on their monthly demo disk if you were lucky. Dialing into a pay-per-minute BBS to get that same patch if you weren't. Or being told to go buy a full price updated version in the store.

Meanwhile the real bad end is that there was some game-breaking issue that just never got addressed at all.

 

[vonbalt]

But most, if not all Paradox games are shipped completely and utterly broken and never truly fixed.

That i'll have to disagree, most PDX recent games had great launches with quick patches following to fix most game-breaking bugs and i can't remember one whom is utterly broken to date.

The worst launch of a recent game of their was Imperator to me but just because the game was very barebones at release (looking more like an EU4 reskin) instead of huge gamebreaking bugs per see, they resisted the community's feedback for a while but eventually got down from their high horses, apologized and started to revamp the game which is awesome nowdays.

Their DLCs sometimes have rocky launches too but they always fix things even if takes a while.

"oh but this should have been in the game at release!" i hear this alot but gamemaking isn't charity, they need to make cash to pay staff and have deadlines to send products for distribution so i don't expect any company to keep working forever on a game that isn't giving them financial return, with PDX dlc policy they keep working and suporting a game i like and i pay a few bucks each year for more content if i like what they are offering, it's a win-win to me.

 

[kreamy]

i wont be purchasing anything from TW

 

[BigFat]

DLC does not mean making an incomplete game complete... I think you're thinking of the Early Access trend not DLCs.
A dlc is just a synonym for a game "expansion" - those were around for years, see world of warcraft.

I think you're confusing my first statement of dislike for the general current trend of DLC in gaming. I wasn't referring directly to this game. I also understand that it doesn't make an incomplete game complete, which is why I said in my first comment that before I would buy dlc for this game, I want to see the finished base product.

@Apocal You're absolutely right and there are going to be good and bad examples of both complete full release and DLC. All I'm saying is I don't like when features that should be in the base game are moved to the side with intent to be DLC before the game is even released.

 

[Abelardo]

Only if it's something worthwhile, and if all the problems with the main game are completely dealt with at that point.

 

[adrakken]

If this company publishes DLCs for Bannerlord. Are you going to buy it?

No. A game like this should not require extra content and DLC means they are holding it back for more money later.

The only thing I expect to see in this game is what we had with the original, Total Conversions passed off as "a new game". That is all Warband, WFaS and Viking Conquest were, conversions. Sure you can claim they were more but in reality they were not. Just the original games code, reworked and some extra features thrown in with reworked graphics like so many total conversions are.

So a Bannerlord Vikings edition with a map of northern Europe with factions and religion system based on real world like Viking Conquest = fine and expected.

A $5.99 DLC for a religious system = GTactualFO here...that should be in the game.

That will also cause havoc in the multiplayer game as you are then creating a wall that will prevent many from being able to play with each other as the DLC will place people into subgroups of haves and have-nots depending on the type of DLC it is as some kinds will create incompatibility between players games.

 

[Hans 77]

A Bannerlord DLC? When? In 2030?

This game is so far from reaching a completed state, let alone offering a quality product, that any DLC in the near future is completely out of the question.

Don't take my word for it, just look at Taleworlds' work rate. Bannerlord has had an incredibly sloooooow development process (2012-present) -especially if you consider that after nearly a decade of development, all they've been able to offer us is a hollowed-out, dysfunctional parody of Warband. Unless Taleworlds is in possession of a magical genie lamp, there's no DLC in the pipeline -or anywhere near it.


This brings me to my second point: Consumer faith in their product (and a lack thereof).

The only reason Bannerlord's sales were so successful was because of a decade of goodwill generated by Warband. This goodwill was squandered overnight when people actually played Bannerlord and saw how soulless it was -not to mention a complete lack of meaningful updates after 1+ year of early access.

In short, we got finessed. Taleworlds played to the industry algorithms (big hype + big promises = big sales) and made absolute bank from Bannerlord's launch. Not to mention they had a lot of advertising help from the sheer cultural zeitgeist surrounding Warband and the anticipation of its successor (Bannerlord), resulting in one of the largest word-of-mouth/grassroots advertising campaigns for any indie game in history. The stars aligned for Taleworlds (financially) and they hit the jackpot.

Now I don't like getting finessed, I don't like getting played, but I respect Taleworlds' hustle. They're sharks. That said, the problem with the card they played is it can only be played once. Once something like this happens, a company loses all goodwill between itself and its customers. The consumers become much less willing to part with their hard earned money for any future products the company might offer. The bad blood is real, and it's hard to wash away the stains.

Me personally, I'm not buying anything else Taleworlds is pitching -especially a DLC, until Bannerlord is made into a good quality game. Meaning at the very least it must come close to the standards Warband (a decade old game) has set for it. Until then, I'm going to sit back and wait, and if a DLC does pop it in the next year or two, I'm going to howl with laughter.

I'm not saying we need to hate on Taleworlds or make a hobby of dunking on them or anything, I'm only saying that when it comes to the next move they pull or hustle they make, just don't be a blind sheep, shill, or simp. Respect yourselves my kings.

 

[bonerstorm]

To each his own, I guess. But most, if not all Paradox games are shipped completely and utterly broken and never truly fixed. There's just an influx of paywalled feature bloating which (imo) gullible people gulp down like smoothies. Their whole DLC model is like Pachinko mixed with some good old Fear Of Missing Out. Most DLCs also break the game for months, if not year. Just look at EU4's last DLC.

And same for Bannerlord's DLC. If they, in the end, release a game which is really good and feature complete... maybe. On discount. Or through key resellers. As things stand I already regretted buying Bannerlord in the first place.

I've also given up on PDX, for that and other reasons... but ehhh?

You might be overstating the case. PDX is currently cancer but the PDX model isn't inherently cancerous.

When Stellaris shipped it was easily the best Master of Orion clone on the market right out the gate. After a long + painful experience trying to get Stardrive to not suck (the lategame was always garbage and also regularly crashed too), Stellaris was a breath of fresh air.

Similarly, I can't think of a medieval strategy game better than CK2. Even without real-time combat, it puts anything in the TW series to shame. And... er... I guess after 9 years and hundreds of $'s later it's finally complete?

Your mileage may vary, but I've spent more on PDX games than probably all other video games put together (and I've been gaming since like 1994, even if I've always been a cheap bastard about it - almost never buying games on release)... and I almost certainly got my money's worth.

I only gave up on PDX after they took multiple dumps in expansions for EUIV and Stellaris and HOI4 that rendered them effectively unplayable for extended periods of time... and even then they only hit my breaking point because of their abrupt political shift (i.e. becoming political at all) more than anything else.

In short, we got finessed.

They went in dry and didn't even buy us feast-dinner first.

 

[Mad Vader]

When Stellaris shipped it was easily the best Master of Orion clone on the market right out the gate. After a long + painful experience trying to get Stardrive to not suck (the lategame was always garbage and also regularly crashed too), Stellaris was a breath of fresh air.

I've recently tried Stellaris with a bunch of DLCs to see what the noise was about. It's not bad, and the exploration part is fun, but the battles are not interesting (and you can't tell easily if your ship designs are any good by watching battles) and you can't win the game in normal 4x ways (except conquest) - you need to grind it because PDX wants you to grind every time in every game.
And don't let me get started on the hundred or something mana types and currencies you need to keep track of. It's poor game design typical of Paradox.

IMO, when Stellaris shipped, Distant Worlds was (and still is) the best 4x space game. Even Endless Space 2 is a better game than Stellaris, although its battles are glorified dice rolls and it tries you to overwhelm you with dopamine hits from quests and achievements, suspiciously like sleek casual games.

More ****ting on Paradox is what we need to put Taleworlds in perspective.