An open letter from the Kingdoms of Arda team, and the total-conversion mod community

[Phantom425]

I agree with this, but the people representing the modding community here aren't the ones being toxic

Yeah, but they’re taking the side of thise representing the side of the modders. The people representing the modding community have been incredibly polite and very professional, but the response to Dejan wasn’t really that. I don’t want a wasted opportunity to kill modding for a game that I love.

 

[ShakenSpeare]

That is a choice you made. You could done crowd funding, Do a kickstarter, open a patreon, create a game studio, hire people. You know... Everything become excuses of things you are not. TW didn't start out where they are today either. But that would involve step out of the shadow of being a hobby project to become accountable to the people investing into you and your project.

Funny you mention Cyberpunk. Imagine they had gone early access or long public beta. They wouldn't released in the sorry state they did. Bannerlord is still early access and not even completed. I don't really care how it is right now. Most important is how it will be at day of full release. If things warrant to bring out the pitch forks then, then do so, but during this stage, not worth it.

 

[Bjorn The Dead]

That is a choice you made. You could done crowd funding, Do a kickstarter, open a patreon, create a game studio, hire people. You know... Everything become excuses of things you are not. TW didn't start out where they are today either. But that would involve step out of the shadow of being a hobby project to become accountable to the people investing into you and your project.

Just stop comparing irrelevant things. Just stop to impose the idea that if you con't do better, you can't criticise.

 

[momo1]

@Phantom425 @Gadheras I know you mean well, but let's take a step back.
What are you trying to accomplish by defending Taleworlds and telling off people who are complaining? (The employees know it's not personal)
Taleworlds has employees who if they find a thread that is just plain toxic, lock it, so they don't need help stopping toxicity.
No matter what you say, people here aren't going to change their minds or stop complaining until they are satisfied.
If you arguing won't change their minds, then all your arguing is doing is causing unnecessary conflict.
You guys made your points, they disagree. There's no benefit to continuing this.

EDIT: If you want to continue arguing you can start a thread for discussing your points, I personally agree with some of them. But this thread was made for addressing certain problems that modders are having, not for debating the things people are posting.

 

[ShakenSpeare]

Can't complain about toxicity when TW is quite literally directly causing it and has not shown the slightest desire to otherwise change that.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

That is a choice you made. You could done crowd funding, Do a kickstarter, open a patreon, create a game studio, hire people. You know...

A coder / modeller costs 3x as much in one year than I've ever made in my life. I save literally 99% of what I earn because I don't have the money to move out, but even if I spent all the money I have, I would only be able to hire one 3D modeller (something I can already do myself) or one coder (something I can already do myself) for about 6 months.
A kickstarter is something I've planned, but since the vast majority of them fail, I have to be 100% sure that I have enough footage and screenshots to show for it before putting it online.

Did you think this through or are you just throwing random ideas to try and justify to yourself why nobody should be complaining about the state the game is in?

Funny you mention Cyberpunk. Imagine they had gone early access or long public beta. They wouldn't released in the sorry state they did. Bannerlord is still early access and not even completed. I don't really care how it is right now. Most important is how it will be at day of full release. If things warrant to bring out the pitch forks then, then do so, but during this stage, not worth it.

"Don't complain until Taleworlds says you can complain"
Early Access is a plague, in no other industry would it be acceptable to pay full price for something publicly available, but still claim that it hasn't been released yet. It's insane that there are still people justifying this manipulative marketer logic. We are over 1 year into """Early Access""", the game is barely any different, and even the developers are saying "we are pretty much done". Why are you so deluded that you think "release day" will be any different, like they're holding back some big major features that they'll suddenly shock everyone with and make the 1 year of limbo worth it? When has that ever happened before in Early Access?

I swear, some of you people act as if you want to be manipulated by PR.

 

[Phantom425]

@Phantom425 @Gadheras I know you mean well, but let's take a step back.
What are you trying to accomplish by defending Taleworlds and telling off people who are complaining? (The employees know it's not personal)
Taleworlds has employees who if they find a thread that is just plain toxic, lock it, so they don't need help stopping toxicity.
No matter what you say, people here aren't going to change their minds or stop complaining until they are satisfied.
If you arguing won't change their minds, then all your arguing is doing is causing unnecessary conflict.
You guys made your points, they disagree. There's no benefit to continuing this.

EDIT: If you want to continue arguing you can start a thread for discussing your points, I personally agree with some of them. But this thread was made for addressing certain problems that modders are having, not for debating the things people are posting.

I was never debating about the things people are posting, I was saying that people are going about wanting change the wrong way. If I am being quite frank, a good opportunity was missed here, and this forum is going to go back to being the regular piss and vinegar that it is. The only way to actually get TW to listen and want to work with you is to, firstly, not advertise making different games and saying that you don’t need them and, secondly, when they reach out don’t bite that hand as a reaction. Work with TW, don’t just **** on them.

 

[Phantom425]

Can't complain about toxicity when TW is quite literally directly causing it and has not shown the slightest desire to otherwise change that.

Except there was a chance for actual progress to be made, and I don’t know if that will come up again. It would be good to drop the toxicity for a second when something good can come out of a situation.

 

[Younes]

I swear, some of you people act as if you want to be manipulated by PR.

Stockholm syndrome is kicking in

 

[momo1]

I was never debating about the things people are posting, I was saying that people are going about wanting change the wrong way. If I am being quite frank, a good opportunity was missed here, and this forum is going to go back to being the regular piss and vinegar that it is. The only way to actually get TW to listen and want to work with you is to, firstly, not advertise making different games and saying that you don’t need them and, secondly, when they reach out don’t bite that hand as a reaction. Work with TW, don’t just **** on them.

You've said this many times.
They disagree with you.
You won't change their mind.
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 

[Phantom425]

You've said this many times.
They disagree with you.
You won't change their mind.
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

I did it for a night and a morning, since I am passionate about this game. If it is a post cause, I’ll see it as such, however I don’t think it is yet.

And if I’m insane, what does that make this forum? From what I’ve heard from you guys, you said that you’ve been talking to a wall for two years now.

Except, now the wall spoke to you.

 

[Gadheras]

A coder / modeller costs 3x as much in one year than I've ever made in my life. I save literally 99% of what I earn because I don't have the money to move out, but even if I spent all the money I have, I would only be able to hire one 3D modeller (something I can already do myself) or one coder (something I can already do myself) for about 6 months.
A kickstarter is something I've planned, but since the vast majority of them fail, I have to be 100% sure that I have enough footage and screenshots to show for it before putting it online.

Did you think this through or are you just throwing random ideas to try and justify to yourself why nobody should be complaining about the state the game is in?



"Don't complain until Taleworlds says you can complain"
Early Access is a plague, in no other industry would it be acceptable to pay full price for something publicly available, but still claim that it hasn't been released yet. It's insane that there are still people justifying this manipulative marketer logic. We are over 1 year into """Early Access""", the game is barely any different, and even the developers are saying "we are pretty much done". Why are you so deluded that you think "release day" will be any different, like they're holding back some big major features that they'll suddenly shock everyone with and make the 1 year of limbo worth it? When has that ever happened before in Early Access?

I swear, some of you people act as if you want to be manipulated by PR.

Everything in life you have to work for to achieve. I know about several modders, indy creators etc out there that have patreons and make a nice chunk from fans follow/subscribe to their projects. A good entry way to start build a following with some monetizing without the risk of fall flat on your face. The "I'm only one", or "I can't afford" etc is things you tell yourself that hold you back. If you really passionate about your project you should look for ways to climb over obstacles.

People can complain all they want but everyone got served the same "early access" disclaimer before they decided to buy the game.

.

 

[Grank]

Kinda late to the party, but kek at the dumb modding decision.

 

[ShakenSpeare]

Everything in life you have to work for to achieve. I know about several modders, indy creators etc out there that have patreons and make a nice chunk from fans follow/subscribe to their projects. A good entry way to start build a following with some monetizing without the risk of fall flat on your face. The "I'm only one", or "I can't afford" etc is things you tell yourself that hold you back. If you really passionate about your project you should look for ways to climb over obstacles.

People can complain all they want but everyone got served the same "early access" disclaimer before they decided to buy the game.

You sound like some rich, spoiled brat telling poor people that they "wouldn't be poor if they were just good at life."

 

[Grank]

The thread is from 2018, it's 2021.. why is it not done yet? Can we mod it yet? Where is the multiplayer? You suck, your game is dead :p

Can I see the game you made bro?

 

[Eärendil Ardamírë]

Please stay on-topic. It's either about the open letter or the latest responses coming from the development team.

 

[Gadheras]

You sound like some rich, spoiled brat telling poor people that they "wouldn't be poor if they were just good at life."

Nope, just had to break my back and work for everything I wanted in life. Starting with apprenticeship as a roofer at 16.... no old money or silverspoon here...

 

[WhyAmIHere]

why is it always the same 3 arguments that we've tossed out the window thousands of times already

get some new material honestly

 

[momo1]

I did it for a night and a morning, since I am passionate about this game. If it is a post cause, I’ll see it as such, however I don’t think it is yet.

And if I’m insane, what does that make this forum? From what I’ve heard from you guys, you said that you’ve been talking to a wall for two years now.

Except, now the wall spoke to you.

The forum has changed the way they asked, for the first 9 months pretty much everyone was polite and understanding (check out those links I sent you), however, that got little results. So people switched tactics and started being tough, and started putting a lot of pressure on Taleworlds.
Also, I wasn't calling you and Gadheras insane, I was saying that what you guys were doing was insane. (Also, it happens to be one of my favorite sayings so I wanted to put it in there )

 

[Genava]

The reason people are complaining about Taleworlds is that they are a company of some 100 people with the second best selling game of 2020 after Cyperpunk 2077. They have literally thousands of times more resources, manpower and expertise than I do. The fact that their game is not thousands (or even on par with) some one-person games is worth complaining about.

Indeed. And the game has been in early access for a year. I think people are way too flexible and take anything. Development is rather slow for the resources they have acquired.

The letter makes valid points, but all of you are missing main goal. The game is still in EA and their primary focus is "releasing" the game. So they don't care about this at the moment. This doesn't mean that they don't care about mods - this means, as a primary objective, they don't care about the mods and/or side effects of their updates to those mods.

The problem is that people have the feelings that modders are providing things much efficiently.