@ the topic of potential repeat genocides:
I didn't mean to offend, but I do think genocide denial leading to an environment which can breed the exact same thing is an exceptionally important matter to discuss in a thread about Armenian genocide. Because pointing out that countries/governments that fail to recognize the things they did—especially horrific ones based on eliminating certain people—can often repeat their mistakes is relevant. How can Turkey's history and their potential eager to repeat themselves not be valid here? What do you think comes of this behavior, acceptance? I've read enough history—especially Turkey's—to know that isn't how this works.
Imagine if Germany did not teach their people about the holocaust, which is no different than not teaching that it was wrong. No one would ever doubt the possibility of denial in that regard potentially leading to another holocaust. I think my case rests beautifully in that regard (raising people to hate and or discriminate against) to a number of the posters here, hell bent on the idea that the Armenians are an enemy to Turkey and they're trying to whip out Turkey and the "real Ottoman citizens".
So yes, I think it is relevant and I do not think it is offensive to discuss the Turkish government repeating itself from its current stance. And I am not anti-Turkish and I do not appreciate being accused of it simply because I dare to suggest genocide denial nurtures an environment that breeds the same mentality that originally caused it.
No you didn't and I highly doubt you read two books in the several hours that I have been gone. Just admit you just don't accept them and limit your denial to that. Otherwise, your next response should be proving that all these documents and recordings are fake. Of course, I know you won't, but it will be fun regardless to see you potentially try.
Yes, they have been proved authentic, by numerous sources. Again, this "everyone else is lying" argument. Try to come up with something that actually has substance.
No, it isn't. They came straight from Talaat's mouth to multiple people. You're gonna have to come up with an intelligent counter argument other than "that's not true".
Of course it's drawn, that doesn't mean it isn't real. And no, they were Armenians in the article (one of dozens). Practically the whole world were reporting on the Armenian genocide. Recording it with photos, newspapers, reports etc. I could show you real photos, but they are graphic and would probably violate forum rules, but you would probably come back with "those could be Turkish victims of Armenian troops!" and have nothing to actual disprove the photos with.
If need be, I can link them instead I just want a moderator to confirm such photos are safe for the discussion before I do.
You mean the evidence the world can plainly see, but a few detached from reality cannot? Talaat ordered their extermination every time someone spoke to him. He was happy to. Your inability to accept this as reality doesn't change what it is. It doesn't change that Turkey exterminated the Kurds, the Armenians, the Bulgarians—none of it.
First of all, yes there is proof of the Turkish government being involved. So much proof, in fact, that Turkey argues it only looks as if they ordered a genocide. Their argument is that it was accidental, that 1.5 million Armenians died "accidentally" (being shot along roads, burned alive in locked up houses, put in trains and starved to death etc) being shipped off to a deserted desert town in which he lied about as well. Secondly, are you saying the Armenians deserved it because you think they were all (all 1.5m of them) out killing Ottoman civilians (just so you know, Armenians were Ottomans too but judging from your posts, you don't see them as anything but a problem)?
The Empire falling apart doesn't grant them a right to exterminate an entire people, even if they thought they were being killed by rogue Armenians. What you fail to understand or accept is that they did orchestrate the extraction of the entire Armenian population from Turkey (again, read into the things I told you about) and then had Teşkilât-ı Mahsusa exterminate them on the way there. Even the official population documents from Turkey shows 900k population drop off in just 1 year. There are numerous documents and recordings, but you are so lost in your own world you won't accept them. That doesn't mean they aren't real.
I didn't mean to offend, but I do think genocide denial leading to an environment which can breed the exact same thing is an exceptionally important matter to discuss in a thread about Armenian genocide. Because pointing out that countries/governments that fail to recognize the things they did—especially horrific ones based on eliminating certain people—can often repeat their mistakes is relevant. How can Turkey's history and their potential eager to repeat themselves not be valid here? What do you think comes of this behavior, acceptance? I've read enough history—especially Turkey's—to know that isn't how this works.
Imagine if Germany did not teach their people about the holocaust, which is no different than not teaching that it was wrong. No one would ever doubt the possibility of denial in that regard potentially leading to another holocaust. I think my case rests beautifully in that regard (raising people to hate and or discriminate against) to a number of the posters here, hell bent on the idea that the Armenians are an enemy to Turkey and they're trying to whip out Turkey and the "real Ottoman citizens".
So yes, I think it is relevant and I do not think it is offensive to discuss the Turkish government repeating itself from its current stance. And I am not anti-Turkish and I do not appreciate being accused of it simply because I dare to suggest genocide denial nurtures an environment that breeds the same mentality that originally caused it.
No you didn't and I highly doubt you read two books in the several hours that I have been gone. Just admit you just don't accept them and limit your denial to that. Otherwise, your next response should be proving that all these documents and recordings are fake. Of course, I know you won't, but it will be fun regardless to see you potentially try.
Yes, they have been proved authentic, by numerous sources. Again, this "everyone else is lying" argument. Try to come up with something that actually has substance.
No, it isn't. They came straight from Talaat's mouth to multiple people. You're gonna have to come up with an intelligent counter argument other than "that's not true".
Of course it's drawn, that doesn't mean it isn't real. And no, they were Armenians in the article (one of dozens). Practically the whole world were reporting on the Armenian genocide. Recording it with photos, newspapers, reports etc. I could show you real photos, but they are graphic and would probably violate forum rules, but you would probably come back with "those could be Turkish victims of Armenian troops!" and have nothing to actual disprove the photos with.
If need be, I can link them instead I just want a moderator to confirm such photos are safe for the discussion before I do.
You mean the evidence the world can plainly see, but a few detached from reality cannot? Talaat ordered their extermination every time someone spoke to him. He was happy to. Your inability to accept this as reality doesn't change what it is. It doesn't change that Turkey exterminated the Kurds, the Armenians, the Bulgarians—none of it.
First of all, yes there is proof of the Turkish government being involved. So much proof, in fact, that Turkey argues it only looks as if they ordered a genocide. Their argument is that it was accidental, that 1.5 million Armenians died "accidentally" (being shot along roads, burned alive in locked up houses, put in trains and starved to death etc) being shipped off to a deserted desert town in which he lied about as well. Secondly, are you saying the Armenians deserved it because you think they were all (all 1.5m of them) out killing Ottoman civilians (just so you know, Armenians were Ottomans too but judging from your posts, you don't see them as anything but a problem)?
The Empire falling apart doesn't grant them a right to exterminate an entire people, even if they thought they were being killed by rogue Armenians. What you fail to understand or accept is that they did orchestrate the extraction of the entire Armenian population from Turkey (again, read into the things I told you about) and then had Teşkilât-ı Mahsusa exterminate them on the way there. Even the official population documents from Turkey shows 900k population drop off in just 1 year. There are numerous documents and recordings, but you are so lost in your own world you won't accept them. That doesn't mean they aren't real.
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