battle advice

[ImperialDane]

If your elite troops are getting slaughtered by Recruits and looters then it sounds like you are doing something wrong.

That said getting to grips with fighting the Khuzait is definitely a tricky deal due to their heavy contingent of horse archers. Best starting advice is to try and bait them into a wooded area or near hilly terrain and then once they're getting bogged down, order the infantry to charge in and typically that clears it out in my experience. Others i believe try to bait them into the are close to the edge of the map as that works too.

But the game doesn't really have a K/D ratio requirement. It just requires a good understanding of tactics and a decent force composition.

So for curiosity's sake. What army are you playing and how does your force roughly look like ? Might be easier to provide you with more accurate advice depending on on how your force looks. Since different armies do require a slightly different approach to get the most out of them. IE playing an Imperial Army is going to be different from say a Sturgian or Battanian one.

 

[Obliterati]

and im running 2 parts inf, 2 parts ranged and then 1 part cav and 1 part mounted archers. seems about as even split as one could ask.

and it starts off well, but ya by mid battle it doesnt matter my positioning whatsoever. my guys just start dieing. if you look away or come back over a hill you can see many of them in combat just standing there until they get cut down. you sure it 'doesnt' have a k/d quota? i think i need to film this...

 

[ImperialDane]

Alright, though what type ? Imperial ? Aserai ? And personally at this point i've had plenty of battles where i easily overwhelm the enemy and suffer neglible losses. Good tactics and force composition can do a lot i find. Also lots of Crossbowmen.

 

[Obliterati]

mostly imperial atm, lotta bandit archers too. little bit mixed otherwise. my horse archers are almost entirely bucellarii with a handful of kuzhait riders.

 

[ImperialDane]

Well with Imperials i do find myself really liking the Sergeant Crossbowmen. As mentioned earlier, fairly good at range and they can act as a strong infantry reserve since they're basically Legionaries with less great armour but a crossbow. Not that you want to use them for that, but it's a good fall back if needed.

That said, line up the infantry at the centre, have archers on the flanks. Have the cavalry set up under AI command.. it tends to be.. fairly competent there at least. Try and set up near a forest or at the edge of the map.. or just around some hills. Bait in the horse archers as mentioned, then order a charge at the right time and you should deal with the horse archers fairly decently since they are not very good in melee and quite vulnerable when finally caught. I'd keep the Horse archers in reserve and then set them out under AI command after a certain point.. Again, the AI is.. sort of competent there and can be relied to not get them terribly murdered most of the time. The issue is the AI is absolutely awful with infantry and archers especially.

But once the Horse archers are taken care off, i find the rest tends to crumble if you keep up decent pressure, have the archers support the infantry while advancing on the flanks and the cavalry and horse archers should help make it harder for the AI to regroup and establish a new line. If you had sergeant Crossbowmen.. I'd just order a full on charge once the main body of Horse archers are dealt with honestly. Since the sergeant Crossbowmen can proceed to just terminator their way throughmost of the remaining Khuzait forces alongside your infantry.

If things get too messy though, fall back and re-establish the Formation with infantry in the centre and archers on the flanks.

It's not perfect, but it tends to serve me fairly well. Also consider having your archers hold fire for a bit to allow the enemy to close in more and waste fewer arrows.

 

[Obliterati]

hmm i gotta run to work here in a bit, will try tonight, also thinking maybe some of my scale might be an issue or something. when i would put smaller armies into circle its really seemed to help in the past, but its not seemed to be making a difference with the large, but i just came to the realization that i wasnt changing the size of the formation and maybe i can make my circles smaller and more compact, or maybe try larger squares and see if i can squeeze the archers in the middle.

also, how much trust do you put into your sargeants? how reliable is the ai when you give them control (in the middle of melee)?

 

[ImperialDane]

Well personally i never found the circle formation to be useful. So i can't say much about that. But best of luck either way.

 

[Obliterati]

ya i never thought much of them, but a few months ago for some reason it really seemed to decimate cavalry. didnt make much sense, but it seemed to be really effective.

having more luck with squares, altho ive had good luck with maps (just been parking just over ridgelines and slaughtering them as they come over the hill), but even when i win im still losing nobles left and right. the casualty rates for notable characters really is just insane.

edit: and when i say insane i mean almost every single battle i lose at least one noble. i would pay money for the ability to shut off death at this point. even when i have them outnumbered 4 to 1 and they only kill 100 people like in this last case, i lose someone. this is after loading it and redoing the battle 3 times and lost someone every time as well. i was soaking up loses, but i just cant anymore. i try and keep up with recruiting more but most of them seem to want millions now even when they dont have fiefs and are in the green. guess i have made a few additions tho.

 

[Obliterati]

so ya im doing okay on the cav side, but ya second my infantry start fighting its over.

i wipe out their cav to a man, I get them to use up their arrows as my dudes are in shield wall and at max range, then once they are about out i creep forward and harass them with my arrow cav until they attack, i wait until my archers are at good range then i have them engage, at this point all is going well and i have almost no casualties whatsoever. my inf is downhill from my ranged and out infront so they have a clear field of fire and slightly at an angle.

and then the infantry hits their infantry and no matter what formation im in or if im charging or having them defend INSTANTLY the k/d ratio goes to 1 to 1 and my guys just get mown down. wtf? i even charge my cav in behind them and guess what? no difference to the outcome whatsoever.

I have tried this 4-5 times this morning and been verbatim the same results despite varying tactics.

altho oddly enough even tho im getting screwed this particular battle im not losing nobles, why not? i always lose nobles, but this round none are dying? retry after retry? im so ****ing goddman confused. i never had these problems in the past.

 

[Apocal]

altho oddly enough even tho im getting screwed this particular battle im not losing nobles, why not? i always lose nobles, but this round none are dying? retry after retry? im so ****ing goddman confused. i never had these problems in the past.

Losing nobles is a random 10% chance whenever they are downed with lethal (cutting/piercing) damage. For some reason my playthroughs have a lower-than-average number of nobles dying -- I'll lose one maybe every four or five sieges -- but other people have an issue where their allied clans are being depopulated.

It is just dice luck.
?‍

 

[echoco]

so ya im doing okay on the cav side, but ya second my infantry start fighting its over.

i wipe out their cav to a man, I get them to use up their arrows as my dudes are in shield wall and at max range, then once they are about out i creep forward and harass them with my arrow cav until they attack, i wait until my archers are at good range then i have them engage, at this point all is going well and i have almost no casualties whatsoever. my inf is downhill from my ranged and out infront so they have a clear field of fire and slightly at an angle.

and then the infantry hits their infantry and no matter what formation im in or if im charging or having them defend INSTANTLY the k/d ratio goes to 1 to 1 and my guys just get mown down. wtf? i even charge my cav in behind them and guess what? no difference to the outcome whatsoever.

I have tried this 4-5 times this morning and been verbatim the same results despite varying tactics.

altho oddly enough even tho im getting screwed this particular battle im not losing nobles, why not? i always lose nobles, but this round none are dying? retry after retry? im so ****ing goddman confused. i never had these problems in the past.

The thing that made me think the 1:1 ration was intentional was no matter how much I was ahead by, be it 100 or 200 kills. After I die it quickly goes to 1:1. Usually my sides' kills don't budge until the other side caught up and then that closure rate disappear, it doesn't over take by much but more evenly as my guys start killing again. If it was a moral effect from me dying the enemy kill rate should have continued to skyrocket once the ratio reached 1:1.

 

[William7667]

I've laways though that spawning in was silly they should increase the maximum total number 1200 seems reasonable then just adjust the ratios to suit if I outnumber the enemy by 2-1 I can have 800 and they can have 400 even if the actual numbers were I had 2000 and they had 1000 no need for a respawn just let the ratio be similar.if I take 30% casualties then 30% of the 2000 will die not the 800.


Companions and nobles should have an option of a bodyguard or two who have a 90% chance to jump in and either save them or die in their stead

The odering of the army needs improving

I should be able to set up my army before the battle arrange formations and assign units and commanders instead I have to try and do it after the battle starts

Then 4 horse archers from the enemy run in and attack at the side I send 40 cavalry after them
I order my infantry to charge and instead of attacking the hundreds of infantry in front of them they all run to the side and chase the 4 horse archers
of course they will never catch them because their on foot and infantry cant catch up with cavalry.
While the companion in charge of the infantry who happens to be on a horse runs solo at the hundreds of enemy infantry and promptly dies

Yes it still needs some work

 

[Obliterati]

The thing that made me think the 1:1 ration was intentional was no matter how much I was ahead by, be it 100 or 200 kills. After I die it quickly goes to 1:1. Usually my sides' kills don't budge until the other side caught up and then that closure rate disappear, it doesn't over take by much but more evenly as my guys start killing again. If it was a moral effect from me dying the enemy kill rate should have continued to skyrocket once the ratio reached 1:1.

ya last few rounds i hadnt even died and it seem to go that way despite me having what i thought was every advantage.

 

[Obliterati]

I've laways though that spawning in was silly they should increase the maximum total number 1200 seems reasonable then just adjust the ratios to suit if I outnumber the enemy by 2-1 I can have 800 and they can have 400 even if the actual numbers were I had 2000 and they had 1000 no need for a respawn just let the ratio be similar.if I take 30% casualties then 30% of the 2000 will die not the 800.


Companions and nobles should have an option of a bodyguard or two who have a 90% chance to jump in and either save them or die in their stead

The odering of the army needs improving

I should be able to set up my army before the battle arrange formations and assign units and commanders instead I have to try and do it after the battle starts

Then 4 horse archers from the enemy run in and attack at the side I send 40 cavalry after them
I order my infantry to charge and instead of attacking the hundreds of infantry in front of them they all run to the side and chase the 4 horse archers
of course they will never catch them because their on foot and infantry cant catch up with cavalry.
While the companion in charge of the infantry who happens to be on a horse runs solo at the hundreds of enemy infantry and promptly dies

Yes it still needs some work

and ya your inf running the opposite direction to chase cav is always annoying. ive been trying to experiment with just moving them manually at an enemy position and not telling them to charge altho my attention is usually needed elsewhere shortly after and im not sure how effective it is. cavalry specifically i have been manually ordering to locations and then once close giving them ai control or charge orders and when they start to break apart i give a follow order and have them rally back on me, altho pulling them off seems like a dangerous proposition and they have a habit of getting killed. otherwise seems fairly effective, but always in a state of doubt about where my troops are and trying to micro each formation all the time to maintain cohesion is such a pain.

 

[Obliterati]

so trying yet again and it seems the only way my guys wont just instantly disintegrate is if i have them in squares and never ever charge or break formation unless im moving them. last battle went fine until i had tried to charge with my infantry into the side of a large infantry force that my cav was mixed up with and ya the moment the infantry broke formation the kill list turned red and i lost 100 men within seconds.

i rode up a mound to see what was going on just in time to see my reforming square surrounded by a force that im assuming had spawned in large numbers all around it which proceeded to club them down until they evaporated. this was not behind the enemy line this was parallel to my infantries original position on the now right side of the field and just in front of my line of archers who i had been using the cav to interdict the rush of infantry on my flank.

what it seemed like was that as my infantry killed one group of enemy they then were almost instantly appearing directly around my formations until it was gone.

 

[Obliterati]

so i just finally said fark it and auto battled and magically ended with no deaths and 850 kills to 525 deaths so i guess ill have to take the cheese way out. not really happy about it but whatever.

 

[Obliterati]

Well with Imperials i do find myself really liking the Sergeant Crossbowmen. As mentioned earlier, fairly good at range and they can act as a strong infantry reserve since they're basically Legionaries with less great armour but a crossbow. Not that you want to use them for that, but it's a good fall back if needed.

That said, line up the infantry at the centre, have archers on the flanks. Have the cavalry set up under AI command.. it tends to be.. fairly competent there at least. Try and set up near a forest or at the edge of the map.. or just around some hills. Bait in the horse archers as mentioned, then order a charge at the right time and you should deal with the horse archers fairly decently since they are not very good in melee and quite vulnerable when finally caught. I'd keep the Horse archers in reserve and then set them out under AI command after a certain point.. Again, the AI is.. sort of competent there and can be relied to not get them terribly murdered most of the time. The issue is the AI is absolutely awful with infantry and archers especially.

But once the Horse archers are taken care off, i find the rest tends to crumble if you keep up decent pressure, have the archers support the infantry while advancing on the flanks and the cavalry and horse archers should help make it harder for the AI to regroup and establish a new line. If you had sergeant Crossbowmen.. I'd just order a full on charge once the main body of Horse archers are dealt with honestly. Since the sergeant Crossbowmen can proceed to just terminator their way throughmost of the remaining Khuzait forces alongside your infantry.

If things get too messy though, fall back and re-establish the Formation with infantry in the centre and archers on the flanks.

It's not perfect, but it tends to serve me fairly well. Also consider having your archers hold fire for a bit to allow the enemy to close in more and waste fewer arrows.

splitting archers specifically seems to be making the biggest difference out of anything. they are basically still in the exact same positions as i had them before, but i guess having 2 points of fire is what this game is really looking for and i didnt realize this. so much so that it seems this rof can match enemy spawning in to the point where this really does feel like the magic the devs were looking for over any other decision you make whether it makes sense or not. feels super artificial, kind of like (or exactly like) how a few patches ago putting your troops into rings was stopping cav in their tracks even tho it was only 1 or two men deep (and even tho other formations at the time werent stopping them with thicker and deeper lines at all).

now that i know what the game is looking for it doesnt even seem to matter what i do with my infantry and cav as long as it can run interference for the archers. but with this said, this whole thing looks twice as fake to me now. should call this game Archerlord.

 

[KingEroc1st]

so ya im doing okay on the cav side, but ya second my infantry start fighting its over.

i wipe out their cav to a man, I get them to use up their arrows as my dudes are in shield wall and at max range, then once they are about out i creep forward and harass them with my arrow cav until they attack, i wait until my archers are at good range then i have them engage, at this point all is going well and i have almost no casualties whatsoever. my inf is downhill from my ranged and out infront so they have a clear field of fire and slightly at an angle.

and then the infantry hits their infantry and no matter what formation im in or if im charging or having them defend INSTANTLY the k/d ratio goes to 1 to 1 and my guys just get mown down. wtf? i even charge my cav in behind them and guess what? no difference to the outcome whatsoever.

I have tried this 4-5 times this morning and been verbatim the same results despite varying tactics.

altho oddly enough even tho im getting screwed this particular battle im not losing nobles, why not? i always lose nobles, but this round none are dying? retry after retry? im so ****ing goddman confused. i never had these problems in the past.

if you can do a screen shot from the perspective of you standing around your archers looking over the battlefield i'd have a better picture.

but it seems you are charging your infantry. that is usually when they die in the clash.

i keep them on shield wall all day, sometimes even drawing them back a little as the enemy approaches. and if the enemy has lots of ranged and i have javelins, i tell them to hold fire so they don't expose themselves and get shot. my infantry is the shield of my army, its' job is to tank the hits.

if you actually have archers over looking infantry's then they'll do most of the killing. tell them to hold fire till the enemy is in range to not waste ammo. when the infantry clashes. you can tell your troops to change to square so when the enemy tries to wrap around your infantry it exposes more sides for your arches to shoot at. the best square is to have it facing 45 degress to the side so it forms a diamond and leaves no blind spot for your archer line

have your horse archers on the right side. not moving, their arrucary drops on the move. once the enemy infantry is fully cclashing with yours. do their circle charge.

honestly there's not too much you can do. once the infantry makes it to yours there's gonna be casualties. your best bet is to kill enough enemies to rout them so they stop killing your troops. here's what you can do

-hide 2h berserker troops behind infantry in a different group. and send them to charge and flank the enemy during clash, sometimes i have 2 groups to the left and right of my shield wall.
-use fodder troops to die instead of your elites. (basically i have my tier 3-5 in a different group. and right before the clash i send in my recruits in front of them)
-charge your cavalry to the side/back of the enemies trying to kill a few to cause more morale loss
-personally go in and kill, or send companions with 2h weapons. i have a mod they never die so i use them in disposable situations.
-inch your entire army back to delay the clash
-employ cavalry sweep tactics to delay the clash
or
-retreat scum

 

[Obliterati]

if you can do a screen shot from the perspective of you standing around your archers looking over the battlefield i'd have a better picture.

but it seems you are charging your infantry. that is usually when they die in the clash.

i keep them on shield wall all day, sometimes even drawing them back a little as the enemy approaches. and if the enemy has lots of ranged and i have javelins, i tell them to hold fire so they don't expose themselves and get shot. my infantry is the shield of my army, its' job is to tank the hits.

if you actually have archers over looking infantry's then they'll do most of the killing. tell them to hold fire till the enemy is in range to not waste ammo. when the infantry clashes. you can tell your troops to change to square so when the enemy tries to wrap around your infantry it exposes more sides for your arches to shoot at. the best square is to have it facing 45 degress to the side so it forms a diamond and leaves no blind spot for your archer line

have your horse archers on the right side. not moving, their arrucary drops on the move. once the enemy infantry is fully cclashing with yours. do their circle charge.

honestly there's not too much you can do. once the infantry makes it to yours there's gonna be casualties. your best bet is to kill enough enemies to rout them so they stop killing your troops. here's what you can do

-hide 2h berserker troops behind infantry in a different group. and send them to charge and flank the enemy during clash, sometimes i have 2 groups to the left and right of my shield wall.
-use fodder troops to die instead of your elites. (basically i have my tier 3-5 in a different group. and right before the clash i send in my recruits in front of them)
-charge your cavalry to the side/back of the enemies trying to kill a few to cause more morale loss
-personally go in and kill, or send companions with 2h weapons. i have a mod they never die so i use them in disposable situations.
-inch your entire army back to delay the clash
-employ cavalry sweep tactics to delay the clash
or
-retreat scum

ya i started off this time as vlandian so have the xp bonus, then have a bunch of xp bonus's from the skill trees as well, not to mention at this point my main source of recruitment now seems to be from my prisoner supply (who i only take elites) and has allowed me to endure some losses and be able to bounce back so been able to manage there, have heard about using 2h groups and always wanted to try them out (just been lazy) but ya the archer splitting really seemed to make the biggest difference.

been trying more and more squares of late, and been thinking about trying to split infantry into groups as well for more coverage and flexiblity to protect the archer line, but ya splitting the archers really seems to have made the biggest difference overall.

 

[Grank]

I know people have given you many useful tips, but allow me to stress the importance of being defensive. You're not the same powerful force that you were in Warband. You can't stomp on bigger armies or ride around killing things like a super warrior. Be mindful before going to battle. Take a look at the enemy's number and composition (how many archers etc). Don't leave favorable terrain to chase routing enemies. Siege is also way harder for the attacker with all the siege weapons shooting at you, so don't attack with an army that's only slightly bigger than the garrison. Try to take out the enemy general if possible but don't get taken out yourself.

Basically, be a massive coward.