Those complaints are caused mainly by TW not providing an honest and clear answer into what their overall vision for the game is. From the things that are suggested time and again, we can see that people expect more RPG elements to be added, but if we look at an answer from Callum in some thread we get something like "Bannerlord is an action game with a sprinkle of RPG elements", the problem is that it is just some comment not an official statement.
M&B comes across as being a different game for different people. Callum probably didn't RP much when he played M&B (wasn't he mostly an MP player anyway?) and he said that was just his opinion. Other people say they played it like an RPG and little niggling details destroy their ability to immerse themselves in Bannerlord -- like the relations being only a number instead of a word or changing the village elder's title to headman.
I play it like TW (edit: Total War) but with the ability to personally dive into battles.
M&B comes across as being a different game for different people. Callum probably didn't RP much when he played M&B (wasn't he mostly an MP player anyway?) and he said that was just his opinion. Other people say they played it like an RPG and little niggling details destroy their ability to immerse themselves in Bannerlord -- like the relations being only a number instead of a word or changing the village elder's title to headman.
I play it like TW (edit: Total War) but with the ability to personally dive into battles.
Like I said, it was just a comment/reply, but since he is Community Manager, people took it as an official statement, and also because there is no such statement.
While "little niggling details" maybe be an issue for some, this is not what the complaints of shallowness are about. There is simply a lack of things to do other than battles all the time, and even battles are not good, the AI is lacking and sieges are still bad, all this does is exacerbate the repetitiveness.
And those complaints focus on the part that once you get past a certain point in your save, there isn't much to do and inspiration could be drawn from mechanics from other games, like Crusader Kings. I personally think the amount of factions in Bannerlord is too small for any meaningful diplomacy, religion and other stuff some people suggested, but there other things that could be added to improve the vassal and ruler aspects of the game. At some point you reach the cap of whatever you decided to and you are left with either becoming a vassal or creating your kingdom.
Those complaints are caused mainly by TW not providing an honest and clear answer into what their overall vision for the game is. From the things that are suggested time and again, we can see that people expect more RPG elements to be added, but if we look at an answer from Callum in some thread we get something like "Bannerlord is an action game with a sprinkle of RPG elements", the problem is that it is just some comment not an official statement.
And since there is no statement as to what type of game TW expects Bannerlord to be, you have people creating threads with very well written suggestions with drawings, code samples, video comparisons and so on that naturally attract a lot of attention from other forum members generating lots of support and those threads are never addressed, which also naturally makes people feel like they are being ignored, which in turn becomes negativity.
I can understand the disappointment of people who prepared deep documentation to support their ideas.
I saw a lot of suggestions over pages and pages in the forum and... yeah at some point TW should have done something to stop the flow.
But, speaking of fairness again, TW cannot be taken responsible for personnal frustration.
Frustration is something you learn to control, by accepting reality as it comes. It is a personnal feeling that only depends on how you see things.
TW cannot be taken responsible for personnal frustration.
Frustration is something you learn to control, by accepting reality as it comes. It is a personnal feeling that only depends on how you see things.
I can understand the disappointment of people who prepared deep documentation to support their ideas.
I saw a lot of suggestions over pages and pages in the forum and... yeah at some point TW should have done something to stop the flow.
But, speaking of fairness again, TW cannot be taken responsible for personnal frustration.
Frustration is something you learn to control, by accepting reality as it comes. It is a personnal feeling that only depends on how you see things.
Of course they can be taken responsible for a frustration born of being ignored, the basis of said frustration is in the EA description on steam, in which they stated the following:
Why Early Access?
“Early access is something that we are very familiar with: our first title, Mount & Blade, helped to pioneer this method of release back in 2005. By working alongside our community we were able to deliver a unique gaming experience that players still enjoy to this day. These past experiences have taught us that it is vital to bring players in to help us iron out any issues and refine the game by utilizing feedback to bring it to the level that both our community and we expect.
How are you planning on involving the Community in your development process?
“We intend to use a range of different methods to gather player feedback and data throughout the early access period. These include engaging with users directly on our official forum and our Steam forum, requesting specific feedback through questionnaires, hosting and participating in multiplayer events alongside our community, and using analytics tools to gather data.”
Speaking of fairness, how can TW not be held responsible for personal frustrations if they led people to believe that they would actually engage users on this forum and on steam for feedback? Developers answering threads on their own personal time is not TaleWorlds engaging the community, they do this because they care about the quality of their work, not because it is company policy.
It is not a matter of implementing suggestions or not, also not a matter of replying to every single thread. Both MP and SP Suggestions boards have a "Top Suggestions" thread pinned, how many of those have been addressed? How many have had what even remotely looks like an answer? If those suggestions are being brought up to the team how come nobody noticed the type of stuff being brought in and decided to give a general reply along the lines of "hey guys, we see you posting a lot of suggestions related to X, Y or Z. We have no plans for such things, please do not send more suggestions for those areas".
Of course they can be taken responsible for a frustration born of being ignored, the basis of said frustration is in the EA description on steam, in which they stated the following:
Speaking of fairness, how can TW not be held responsible for personal frustrations if they led people to believe that they would actually engage users on this forum and on steam for feedback? Developers answering threads on their own personal time is not TaleWorlds engaging the community, they do this because they care about the quality of their work, not because it is company policy.
It is not a matter of implementing suggestions or not, also not a matter of replying to every single thread. Both MP and SP Suggestions boards have a "Top Suggestions" thread pinned, how many of those have been addressed? How many have had what even remotely looks like an answer? If those suggestions are being brought up to the team how come nobody noticed the type of stuff being brought in and decided to give a general reply along the lines of "hey guys, we see you posting a lot of suggestions related to X, Y or Z. We have no plans for such things, please do not send more suggestions for those areas".
You missed my point, I agree that TW didn't manage the flow of incoming ideas, neither gave needed feedback.
But they are not responsible for the frustration, as this is something we are supposed to personnaly deal with, by ourself.
You missed my point, I agree that TW didn't manage the flow of incoming ideas, neither gave needed feedback.
But they are not responsible for the frustration, as this is something we are supposed to personnaly deal with, by ourself.
You missed my point, I agree that TW didn't manage the flow of incoming ideas, neither gave needed feedback.
But they are not responsible for the frustration, as this is something we are supposed to personnaly deal with, by ourself.
I can't understand how TaleWorlds is not responsible for the frustration if the whole object of said frustration is the failure of TaleWorlds to hold up their side of a proposition that they made.
Yes TW projected features in 2016-2017-etc and wanted to closely involve the "community" but for whatever reason it didn't work as expected.
And tbh, I personally don't care.
The game was released in EA, and despite a difficult start, it is at this real point already enjoyable.
That's my opinion.
I start to wonder why it's not possible to read a thread in this forum that is not speaking about how warband was better, how TW is incompetent, etc...
I mean, is it wrong to look at the game as it is, enjoy it as it is and positively look forward to whatever other good features they plan to add?
There is a good thread proposing a kind of roadmap. While I agree with some of the suggestions, I was really shocked that the OP literally requested TW devs to not give priority to any ideas that are not expected by the "community"...
I like the game and there is no doubt that TW will release the game they intended to create, based on their vision.
While hopefully taking into consideration some of the "community" feedback.
Playing a game you don't like for hundreds or thousands of hours is absolutely insane. Most people won't even play a game they actually enjoy for more than forty to sixty hours.
At the end of the day, this is just a game, something you play to relax and have fun with. Putting that much time into something that frustrates or bores you is absolutely nuts.
To go back on topic. I posted a positive review in april last year but changed it to negative in march of this year as TW is continuously disappointed me with they way they are handling this EA.
How the **** can you spend 1500 hours into that trash????
After 20 hours the game is done.
Early game is about 2 hours then you can reach Clan tier 2. Get vassal get a castle and then ?
You dont have anything to do you cant really interact with your wife or with your ppl.
The Castle should be your office where ppl come with complains but its empty as ****.
There is NO thing you can do after 20 hours except playing the War simulator and thats getting boring pretty soon.
Tell me HOW can someone play this game more than 20 hours? And dont tell me traveling to every city is a thing you have to do or swimming in the ocean
so just because you don't care about bannerlord's development, we're all supposed to swallow it up because we do? If Taleworld's was to announce that it had no plan's on fixing the siege, and you come here saying "it's your fault you're frustrated" you realise how ludicrous that sounds?
Look you're entitled to your own opinion, but putting the blame on the consumer's and not at Taleworld's utter incompetence to provide what it said it would deliver is not a consumers fault. If everyone was to be like you Spinozart1 with your laissez-faire attitude, then truthly even snowballing faction's wouldn't have been fixed, nothing would have because there wouldn't be anyone pushing Taleworld's to do something because as far as they'd been concerned everyone was a Spinozart1 that was completely brainlessly content.
If businesses started started providing terrible product's, compared to the good one's that were shown on it's marketing, and then a consumer becomes frustrated and complains that he didn't receive what was shown? and they tell them that it's their fault for feeling frustrated? I don't think those businesses would last very long.
I guess we all SHOULD remember still, that we fell for the honey-trap early access. The criticism is more than valid and I share it wholeheartedly. But still we need to remember the conditions we agreed upon participating in EA:
- game not ready and subject to change (so in fact they have a carté blanche to tell us how they want the game to be at the beginning and do something very different later)
- paid upfront in full with almost no chance of refund
If we are to really put a change to that, we might question ourselves a bit: "Why do we buy an unfinished product in the hope it will be to our palate?". "Can we even complain, if we do not like the current state of the game?" Because we are basically buying the proverbial pig in a poke (which is commonly used as a synonym for doing something stupid, customer-wise)
A company not doing EA is forced to work quickly as resources are needed upfront and needs to provide a certain quality within a strict timeframe or otherwise the product will fail after release. By entering EA we support a company that has our trust, yes, but also relive them a bit from the pressure to deliver quickly and well. Or told in other words: Participating in EA might lead to industry shifting to delivering poorer products as the customer willingly reduces their risk of failing financially without any other drawback. As customer we should always be aware of that our purchase decisions will have an impact. Not a single purchase decision, but many done in the same spirit.
And yes, I have not forgotten, that it is also not a smart move to disgruntle customers, if you want to keep selling stuff to them. Just wanted to emphasize that the problem not only lies at the developer but also at us, the customers.
The problem was that the game was released as EA, people thought it was a sign that much more content would be added. But with + 90% of the possible sales already made, it is not expected that Taleworlds will invest more resources in the game as it will not have any return from that. In the best case a year from now some paid content will be added. You must live with it.
so just because you don't care about bannerlord's development, we're all supposed to swallow it up because we do? If Taleworld's was to announce that it had no plan's on fixing the siege, and you come here saying "it's your fault you're frustrated" you realise how ludicrous that sounds?
I didn't say I don't care about BL development. I was referring to the people stucked with expectations that are clearly outdated.
Please don't start with the "if".
Siege AI is actually a blocking point in their develoment (literally in game ), and do you seriously believe they will not improve it?
And again, yes, the frustration is something you have to personnaly deal with.
Look you're entitled to your own opinion, but putting the blame on the consumer's and not at Taleworld's utter incompetence to provide what it said it would deliver is not a consumers fault. If everyone was to be like you Spinozart1 with your laissez-faire attitude, then truthly even snowballing faction's wouldn't have been fixed, nothing would have because there wouldn't be anyone pushing Taleworld's to do something because as far as they'd been concerned everyone was a Spinozart1 that was completely brainlessly content.
If businesses started started providing terrible product's, compared to the good one's that were shown on it's marketing, and then a consumer becomes frustrated and complains that he didn't receive what was shown? and they tell them that it's their fault for feeling frustrated? I don't think those businesses would last very long.
So you are one of those consumers that needs the mention "this is an image" to excuse the fact that the content will actually not be the same than what is shown on the packaging?
Or the type of consumer that needs the mention "Hot drink" on your cup of coffee to remember you to not burn your lips with?
This is exactly my point, "homo consumens" is nowadays completely brainless and exempted of any responsibilties, just because they "spent" their money...
Maybe TW should pay you some psychologist session to help you dealing with your frustrations as well?
I guess we all SHOULD remember still, that we fell for the honey-trap early access. The criticism is more than valid and I share it wholeheartedly. But still we need to remember the conditions we agreed upon participating in EA:
- game not ready and subject to change
- paid upfront in full with almost no chance of refund
If we are to really put a change to that, we might question ourselves a bit: "Why do we buy an unfinished product in the hope it will be to our palate?". "Can we even complain, if we do not like the current state of the game?" Because we are basically buying the proverbial pig in a poke (which is commonly used as a synonym for doing something stupid, customer-wise)
A company not doing EA is forced to work quickly as resources are needed upfront and needs to provide a certain quality within a strict timeframe or otherwise the product will fail after release. By entering EA we support a company that has our trust, yes, but also relive them a bit from the pressure to deliver quickly and well. Or told in other words: Participating in EA might lead to industry shifting to delivering poorer products as the customer willingly reduces their risk of failing financially without any other drawback. As customer we should always be aware of that our purchase decisions will have an impact. Not a single purchase decision, but many done in the same spirit.
And yes, I have not forgotten, that it is also not a smart move to disgruntle customers, if you want to keep selling stuff to them. Just wanted to emphasize that the problem not only lies at the developer but also at us, the customers.
I didn't say I don't care about BL development. I was referring to the people stucked with expectations that are clearly outdated.
Please don't start with the "if".
Siege AI is actually a blocking point in their develoment (literally in game ), and do you seriously believe they will not improve it?
And again, yes, the frustration is something you have to personnaly deal with.
Thank you for naming the 'snwoballing issue".
It is a true example of good collaboration between the "community" and developpers.
So you are one of those consumers that needs the mention "this is an image" to excuse the fact that the content will actually not be the same than what is shown on the packaging?
Or the type of consumer that needs the mention "Hot drink" on your cup of coffee to remember you to not burn your lips with?
This is exactly my point, "homo consumens" is nowadays completely brainless and exempted of any responsibilties, just because they "spent" their money...
Maybe TW should pay you some psychologist session to help you dealing with your frustrations as well?
I guess we all SHOULD remember still, that we fell for the honey-trap early access. The criticism is more than valid and I share it wholeheartedly. But still we need to remember the conditions we agreed upon participating in EA:
- game not ready and subject to change
- paid upfront in full with almost no chance of refund
If we are to really put a change to that, we might question ourselves a bit: "Why do we buy an unfinished product in the hope it will be to our palate?". "Can we even complain, if we do not like the current state of the game?" Because we are basically buying the proverbial pig in a poke (which is commonly used as a synonym for doing something stupid, customer-wise)
A company not doing EA is forced to work quickly as resources are needed upfront and needs to provide a certain quality within a strict timeframe or otherwise the product will fail after release. By entering EA we support a company that has our trust, yes, but also relive them a bit from the pressure to deliver quickly and well. Or told in other words: Participating in EA might lead to industry shifting to delivering poorer products as the customer willingly reduces their risk of failing financially without any other drawback. As customer we should always be aware of that our purchase decisions will have an impact. Not a single purchase decision, but many done in the same spirit.
And yes, I have not forgotten, that it is also not a smart move to disgruntle customers, if you want to keep selling stuff to them. Just wanted to emphasize that the problem not only lies at the developer but also at us, the customers.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
), and do you seriously believe they will not improve it?
