My theory on why the Khuzait are always the dominant faction in the game. (And maybe why Battania always seems to get beat up as well)

[Midnitewolf]

As we all know, the Khuzaits always seem to be one of if not always the strongest faction in the game and I think I know why.

You see it comes down to how fast the AI army can move on the campaign map. AI armies always fight in simulation so theoretically the individual skills or types of troops shouldn't dictate which side wins. From a balancing standpoint all the devs have to do is tweak a few number here and there in the simulation calculations and an equal number and tier of troops on both sides regardless of the faction should results in nearly each faction having a roughly 50/50 chance of winning, thus balance is achieved. Obviously though that is not what appears to happen. Instead the Khuzait's seem to always dominate. I personally think this has nothing to do with the simulated battles at all but rather because of a factor that only happen on the campaign map and that factor is run speed.

You see, the Khuzait AI armies always have a disproportionate number of horse mounted troops compared to a any other factions AI armies. This means they always have a run speed advantage. The way the AI apparently works is very simple, if a force is stronger you run away from it and if your stronger you chase it. These leads to situations where any time another factions AI army approaches a weaker Khuzait army, the Khuzait army will just run away leaving the other factions army in the dust. Consequently if the Khuzait army is stronger, there is a much higher probability they will actually catch the fleeing weaker army due to their speed advantage. This leads the Khuzaits to having a disproportional amount of victorious engagement compared to the other factions.

Also, this run speed advantage means that they have an advantage reacting to a siege of their territory and running off the enemy army before the siege is complete. Further because of the speed advantage, unlike other factions, a larger Khuzait army can at times catch a smaller army from any other faction. I have for example seen a Khuzait army of 800 run down a Aserai army of 500 before, just last night in fact. They also have an advantage in sieges of their own as they can reach enemy castles and towns faster than the other factions. Further, once there to siege and enemy castle or town, if a larger army shows up, the only thing that army can do is run them off, not actually catch them again due to the speed advantage.

Basically the Khuzaits are dictating the engagement. They are always at an advantage on the campaign map due to their speed.

I also think this might be a factor in why Battania seems to always struggle. They are primarily a foot based culture while Vlandia tends to have a fairly high percentage of their armies being cavalry and the Western Empire though not as heavily horse based still tends to have more cavalry than Battania. This would lead to the same issues in reverse with Battania armies being rather easy to catch by strong forces while not being able to catch as many weaker armies from their opponents. Sturgia I think tends to be more infantry based as well so this might actually be part of the reason why Sturgia tends to be a bit weaker also.

Note: Wanted to add a possible way to balance. To put is simply, make Infantry worth more than cavalry in simulated battles. That way even if a faster cavalry (and horse archer) based army catches a slower infantry based army, chances are that given equal numbers and quantity of troops, the infantry based army would win in simulation. Balance so that the infantry based army would only win maybe 60% of the time so it wasn't always a case where the infantry based army won but enough to offset being unable to run away from potential larger and/or more powerful but faster cavalry based armies.

 

[Maown]

tldr but in my playtru battania is op, always rekt some vlandia\western empire

 

[Vilynis]

Haven't played 1.5.8 yet, but in .7 it was incredibly random as to who was becoming the first "super power". Over three different playthroughs, NE, sturgia and SE all gained huge advantages that the AI kingdoms just could no longer compete with. Admittedly, the SE was due almost entirely to my efforts, but once the initial wars were won in our favor, the AI was handling it well enough without my help anymore.

Basically, it seems whoever earns the early advantage manages to maintain it fairly well throughout the game, with or without the players influence. It is nice to see the snowballing working in someones favor besides the khuzaits, but it is still very prevalent regardless.

 

[Apocal]

We have an entire thread about this but...

I also think this might be a factor in why Battania seems to always struggle. They are primarily a foot based culture while Vlandia tends to have a fairly high percentage of their armies being cavalry and the Western Empire though not as heavily horse based still tends to have more cavalry than Battania. This would lead to the same issues in reverse with Battania armies being rather easy to catch by strong forces while not being able to catch as many weaker armies from their opponents. Sturgia I think tends to be more infantry based as well so this might actually be part of the reason why Sturgia tends to be a bit weaker also.

Battanian parties have the second-most cavalry, after the Khuzaits, and they generally do well on the map because of it.

 

[zach99zulu]

Vlandian pikes wreck cavalry too. I hate fighting them.

 

[black_bulldog]

I have no idea what game the OP is playing but Battania always seems be one of the last factions around, and I rarely see them struggle.
Obtw they aren't primarily foot soldiers they have a ton of cav second after Khurazit that's why they're so good. Personally looking at lore I don't think they should have as much cav as they do. If any faction should have more it's Vlandia, just my 2 cents.

 

[Adrivan]

Did you play in the latest version? In my current run the Khuzaits are one of the weakest factions, and I didn't intervene.

 

[jli084]

Did you play in the latest version? In my current run the Khuzaits are one of the weakest factions, and I didn't intervene.

Khuzaits are a real pushover in 1.5.8. Im thinking it has something to do with this:

Would not like to try building up a party in that area. In my game the most powerfull faction is steppe bandits

 

[Senko]

In my game the most powerfull faction is steppe bandits

Steppe Bandits invasion
Honestly they should keep it as a one time event where a huge steppe bandit army invades with a unique named leader.
It would be a lot a fun. You could also add a option to turn it off when you start a new game if you don't want bandit invasions.

 

[Midnitewolf]

To be fair guys, I am just returning after an 8 month Hiatus. I have restarted twice since I have been back and the Khuzait's are dominating both play throughs while Battania is struggling which was exactly how it was when I left the game back in May. Also the only faction I struggle defeating in battles is the Khuzait's so it seems to me they are OP as units.

That being said, maybe I am wrong but I do absolutely see that my factions AI control armies have difficulty bringing the Khuzait's to battle in advantageous situations while the Khuzait rarely fail to run down much smaller armies trying to escape. It seems really unbalanced to me.

 

[Maown]

Khuzaits are a real pushover in 1.5.8. Im thinking it has something to do with this:

Would not like to try building up a party in that area. In my game the most powerfull faction is steppe bandits

jesos christos watta hell?

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

Battania can absolutely struggle if they don't get decent early victories going since they don't start with all that much cavalry. As the gsme goes on though they do though, the ai starts to exploit their common cav access and bully the Western Empire's inferior cav force.

As blackbulldog said, this makes zero sense from how they're described.

Autocalc absolutely has eveything to do with dominance too. You don't think the bonus that cav get in battles isn't an advantage?

Vlandian pikes wreck cavalry too. I hate fighting them.

Really? Even ignoring the superiority of halberd styled troops, they do nothing for autocalc, which matters far more in map domination.

 

[black_bulldog]

Khuzaits are a real pushover in 1.5.8. Im thinking it has something to do with this:

Would not like to try building up a party in that area. In my game the most powerfull faction is steppe bandits

Parties of 1,2 and 3 shouldn't exist they should either be eliminated or join another group that is beyond stupid.

 

[Deathmacabre]

Problem with Khuzait is not that they are efficient on field. Problem is that they are playing by same rules as all factions.
We need to admit that really there is no difference between factions except that joke of the bonus and maybe few troops. Khuzaits though in troops are escalating huge in but that is fine. They are Mongols. Problem is succesion rule and type of government. Khuzait should conquer lots of land and that split in succession which will make them weaker.
This change would fix multiple things. Snowballing and gave flavor to the factions if every would get similar treatment.
But i guess people here would like more huge breasted leaders with obscure armor.

 

[Adrivan]

Problem with Khuzait is not that they are efficient on field. Problem is that they are playing by same rules as all factions.
We need to admit that really there is no difference between factions except that joke of the bonus and maybe few troops. Khuzaits though in troops are escalating huge in but that is fine. They are Mongols. Problem is succesion rule and type of government. Khuzait should conquer lots of land and that split in succession which will make them weaker.
This change would fix multiple things. Snowballing and gave flavor to the factions if every would get similar treatment.
But i guess people here would like more huge breasted leaders with obscure armor.

I don't know what u guys are talking about... The problem is non-existent in 1.5.7. I already played 3 campaigns and never saw khuzait more powerful than other factions. In one campaign they even got destroyed by southern empire. I think most snowballing issues were already fixed.

 

[Apocal]

I don't know what u guys are talking about... The problem is non-existent in 1.5.7. I already played 3 campaigns and never saw khuzait more powerful than other factions. In one campaign they even got destroyed by southern empire. I think most snowballing issues were already fixed.

The snowballing problem for most players was fixed way back in 1.5.1. Almost no one actually went twenty years without factional interaction. Only a few even have a playthrough that long.

Problem with Khuzait is not that they are efficient on field. Problem is that they are playing by same rules as all factions.
We need to admit that really there is no difference between factions except that joke of the bonus and maybe few troops. Khuzaits though in troops are escalating huge in but that is fine. They are Mongols. Problem is succesion rule and type of government. Khuzait should conquer lots of land and that split in succession which will make them weaker.
This change would fix multiple things. Snowballing and gave flavor to the factions if every would get similar treatment.
But i guess people here would like more huge breasted leaders with obscure armor.

I have more than two thousand legit hours in BL and the number of times Monchug has actually died in all my playthroughs is a single digit number. He is the second youngest faction ruler on the map, i.e. chances are everyone but Caladog kicks the bucket before he does. Also, the reason the Khuzaits were stomping all the time is the one thing that made them unique -- having more cavalry. When they introduced rebellions, someone noticed that the Khuzaits weren't hurt as bad because of another faction-unique thing -- they started with a policy called "grazing rights" that improved loyalty.

 

[kweassa]

Got nothing to do with cavalry. It's almost entirely the geography, and the situations of the initial war. Khuzait has the least access points into their realms, and right after the initial war everyone is engaged in with some other nation, the odds of Khuzaits entering a multi-front war against 2~3 enemies at the same time, are simply the lowest of all the countries.

Sturgia, otoh, has two large access points west and east. The eastern point is very narrow, and pits them against Khuzait cavalry, which, as a predominantly infantry nation, are disadvantaged from the start. On the western front it has a broad access point that borders 2~3 nations at the same time, and when one town closest to the frontlines is lost, they are bottlenecked and isolated, without being able to counter-attack effectively,

All the rest of the nations are in a toss-up and any nation that gets gangbanged will quickly deteriorate.


That's why in the long-run, the most common situation you see is that of (1) Khuzaits becoming super powerful, (2) Sturgia usually eliminated, (3) everyone else in the middle all deteriorate or get one prominent nation.

 

[Apocal]

Got nothing to do with cavalry. It's almost entirely the geography, and the situations of the initial war. Khuzait has the least access points into their realms, and right after the initial war everyone is engaged in with some other nation, the odds of Khuzaits entering a multi-front war against 2~3 enemies at the same time, are simply the lowest of all the countries.

Sturgia, otoh, has two large access points west and east. The eastern point is very narrow, and pits them against Khuzait cavalry, which, as a predominantly infantry nation, are disadvantaged from the start. On the western front it has a broad access point that borders 2~3 nations at the same time, and when one town closest to the frontlines is lost, they are bottlenecked and isolated, without being able to counter-attack effectively,

All the rest of the nations are in a toss-up and any nation that gets gangbanged will quickly deteriorate.


That's why in the long-run, the most common situation you see is that of (1) Khuzaits becoming super powerful, (2) Sturgia usually eliminated, (3) everyone else in the middle all deteriorate or get one prominent nation.

The Khuzaits have four access points (the land-bridge to Makeb, the Tyal-Baltakhand corridor, south of Chaikhand, and the desert stretching from Husn Fulq-Odokh) and effectively border four factions as a result (Aserai, Northern and Southern Empire, Sturgia). It has everything to do with cavalry, which was why when people tested by eliminating the Cavalry bonus to map speed, the snowballing stopped.

That's also why Sturgia is fine now, with a 40% Cav speed bonus (reduced from 60%) but no changes to their geography or starting war.

 

[Marajah]

Totally agree speed played a big part on Khuzait dominance. Fighting against them we could see allied smaller parties getting picked apart by 3-4 others, while their armies could almost always evade combat when in a disadvantage. After some time, attrition and the hit n' run warfare always paid off.

I started a new campaign after last patch and Sturgia finally got their snow speed bonus after snow speed penalty was implemented and they managed to conquer that whole region between them, the Battanians and the North Empire before 100 days, extending all the way to Car Banseth. We might just change one superpower for another. Let's see how others' campaigns have been playing out

 

[Apocal]

Let's see how others' campaigns have been playing out

There's a thread with just such information. The 1.5.8 relevant info starts on page 55, in case the link dumps you to the (outdated) first page. Snowball score is just the overall measure, with lower being better.