1.5.7 and beyond

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The thing about Crossbows is that they are very accurate and effective at close ranged.. this is why many armies in history used them, because they are easy to use.. the bows on the other hand require more practice and skill... seeing them being nerfed for doing what they are designed to do kinda makes me worried...
 
The thing about Crossbows is that they are very accurate and effective at close ranged.. this is why many armies in history used them, because they are easy to use.. the bows on the other hand require more practice and skill... seeing them being nerfed for doing what they are designed to do kinda makes me worried...
They are designed to be balanced in a pvp compétitive gameplay, not some historical simulation.
 
The thing about Crossbows is that they are very accurate and effective at close ranged.. this is why many armies in history used them, because they are easy to use.. the bows on the other hand require more practice and skill... seeing them being nerfed for doing what they are designed to do kinda makes me worried...


yeah sure, you should worry. :xf-wink:
 
Balance is in right direction except the current state of skirmishers. Shields that actually block ranged from front are a good addition(and yet you take it away from wilding...) and I'd say amount of damage buff for throwing was right, but why did you have to buff the ammo size aswell at the same time? Now they are over-adjusted and how are you going to decide wheter its the damage or the amount that breaks the game? Or on another note why cant you be as rash with inf movement speed, incrementing 1 by 1 as if you are mocking us?



You are aware that in warband hp of players varied between 42 to 58 points depending on faction and class? Highest mount hp is at 165 with Sarranian War Horse, lowest is 110 (not counting saddle which is 100). From that context mount hp amount is samey ratiowise. Armor change is quite impactful, melee damage done to mounts on foot is improved nicely. I'd like to see new throwing buffs to be handled before this is touched again. I can understand with the state of skirmishers you are not feeling nice about heavy inf but I dont understand how you can call yourself a competitive inf and not feel that the damage you do the horses with melee is improved? Turned combat stats off for immersion or what?
The damage has been improved however a somewhat decent play will avoid getting hit entirely. Mobility is the Cavs strongest strength. What's the point of damage if they can't hit you in the first place? Making it higher risk gives engagement more difficult. A cav player can simply double-tap S press caps lock and now your horse will take 30-40 damage with a 0 armor horse. Put it in a melee fight the cav can just switch back and forth from targets. My point is this patch does not solve the problem at all and the health/armor does not mean much. Cav mains think their horses are weak but give this 2-3 months and inf to cav will still favor cav. The only real threat is an archer. A cav player can go in and get out in no time so a competent player will not let him be exposed and this player completely bypasses the nerf. I can still top frag and I do not feel cav got any harder, yes I can get unhorsed but I just need to be slightly more cautious. It went from being impossible to unhorse a good cav main to a possibility.

Either a drop in health or mobility is what is needed. Cav is not as OP but still very strong and will still dominate lobbies until something is done about it.
 
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@AVRC hey, is splitting Captain Mode and Skirmish perks still on the cards for the near future??? Or are you guys looking to balance these issues before doing that?
 
@AVRC hey, is splitting Captain Mode and Skirmish perks still on the cards for the near future??? Or are you guys looking to balance these issues before doing that?
Next hotfix is going to fix the skirmisher craze.
Yes we are planning to split some stuff, it is not finalized yet.
 
Next hotfix is going to fix the skirmisher craze.
Yes we are planning to split some stuff, it is not finalized yet.
Cool, thanks for the details.

I do not see a way for the devs to make both Captain and Skirmish mode players happy with the way projectiles are balanced until the perks get split, for what it is worth.
 
Cool, thanks for the details.

I do not see a way for the devs to make both Captain and Skirmish mode players happy with the way projectiles are balanced until the perks get split, for what it is worth.
@AVRC
The biggest issue in Bannerlord MP is the desire to balance a PVE mode the same way we balance a PVP mode. Infantrymen in Captain seems to be fine when it comes to AI. They pummel each other in the face and use the upperswing in a proper manner when in big pile. Archers on the other side suffer from the accuracy that they are dealt with and same goes for Cavalry with their accuracy with spears and capacity to maneuver the horses.

Players have 0 issue with being accurate or the ride properly the horses, most inbalances in the game are caused by the desire to balance these classes the same way for PVP and PVE.

Boosting throwing weapons may have been a good idea for Captain, but its a monstrous idea for the PVP modes.
 
@AVRC
The biggest issue in Bannerlord MP is the desire to balance a PVE mode the same way we balance a PVP mode. Infantrymen in Captain seems to be fine when it comes to AI. They pummel each other in the face and use the upperswing in a proper manner when in big pile. Archers on the other side suffer from the accuracy that they are dealt with and same goes for Cavalry with their accuracy with spears and capacity to maneuver the horses.

Players have 0 issue with being accurate or the ride properly the horses, most inbalances in the game are caused by the desire to balance these classes the same way for PVP and PVE.

Boosting throwing weapons may have been a good idea for Captain, but its a monstrous idea for the PVP modes.
Yeah, I think the update was almost right for Captain and just needs to be slightly dialed down in terms of throwing ammunition there (12 jareeds is pretty funny though).
I haven't played Skirmish mode in the update and I can only imagine what it is like lol.

Captain mode inherently requires more throwing ammunition than Skirmish, because of what you're saying about accuracy.

The AI should not be hyper-accurate when throwing in formation, but if you're showing up to a big battle, you'd probably bring along some extra javelins. 3 for small stacks, 5 for mid stacks, and 8 for outrageous specialist stacks seems right with the current damage values.

I'm not sure we should ever see more than 5 javelins on a player in Skirmish mode, with this kind of damage output (Which I do think is appropriate).

Again though, I don't think there is any combination of damage and ammunition that works for both scenarios.
 
Next hotfix is going to fix the skirmisher craze.
Yes we are planning to split some stuff, it is not finalized yet.
Would it be possible to feature different Troops in captain and skirmish modes to allow better individual customization and balance of the play modes?
For example, one mode could have “Battanian Fian” and the other could use “Battanian Noble”. They would likely be very similar as a template but could give you much more freedom on how they develop into the future without impacting a different mode, more so than just changing the perk load outs.

You could roll the divergent culture trees out one at a time so that the project could be easily broken into smaller steps.
 
i just want to take a moment a thank developers for fixing bastard X swinging bullsh*t
good job guys, keep going, sad to see you get all the criticism but no generousity for actually fixing something important
 
Do you captain?
You don't need 12 Javelins in captain. For the weakest javelins they should have 8 at most. Skirmishers should at best be able to wipe out an exposed shock unit with only their throwables. Making the AI better at throwing rather than buffing the throwables would be better for captain.
 
You don't need 12 Javelins in captain. For the weakest javelins they should have 8 at most. Skirmishers should at best be able to wipe out an exposed shock unit with only their throwables. Making the AI better at throwing rather than buffing the throwables would be better for captain.
Agree, that would be a better approach. But any improvement to a dead class is good. I knew it would hurt skirmish players by adding qty. Honestly considering most javs do pissy damage 12 isn't that crazy considering AI miss a lot. And you know as soon as your skirmisher ai are out if throws they are as good as dead when the next breeze gently blows past them and they all die from the impact it brings
 
Increased troop counts for captain mode:
+2 for light cavalry
+1 for heavy cavalry

I think that is a very dangerous change as it increases the viability of cav parking and rambo cav. Just yesterday I had a team of premates who just parked 4 units of cav in the corner and started picking off NPCs the entire round.
What's really needed (but understandably difficult to implement) is improving AI-Cav. Also I think there should be some punishment for dieing as captain (e.g. a respawn time that increases with the number of deaths) in order to disencourage reckless behaviour.
 
Crossbows
Crossbows are going to have further changes. The confirmed ones are increasing inaccuracy when jumping and increasing inaccuracy when making a sharp turn which involves the feet to reposition.
The remaining problems we want fix are crossbows being too effective at very close range and being able to switch between weapons and getting ready to fire too fast. There are multiple ways we are discussing to handle these issues and they will be taken care of in an immediate patch.
These seem like good changes, looking forward to their implementation.
Cavalry
Cavalry stats have been reduced to lower the dominance of cavalry on the battlefield, but this creates the issue of them being weaker to everything rather than mostly spears, pikes and lances. The main problem is ranged troops being a bit too effective against Cavalry at the moment. We are testing some solutions to remedy this issue in an immediate patch.
I don't really agree that ranged in general are too effective against cav, at least in PvP, as cav can choose when and how to engage. Indeed archers should be considered the natural counter to cavalry for this reason as its the one thing cav need to work around as opposed to having free reign of movement over the battlefield. It's only been a week but I imagine as competitive goes on we'll continue to see cav dominating the scoreboard. As I've said before cavalry as a class needs a lot more reworks, overall it is far too forgiving: stabs are fast and quickly reset, rear-ups on environment are rare, acceleration and top speed is high, enemy and friendly troops including other cav pose little obstacle as cav can just push through them. If these are improved, then sure, a mild buff to horse health might be on the cards.

Throwing weapons probably are too strong against cav however, but this is more due to their nature rather their relationship with cav which I speak about below.

Heavy Infantry
We expect the changes mentioned above to make Heavy Infantry much more relevant, especially against cavalry, and have some other plans to improve their melee ability further.
The biggest improvement that can be made to their melee ability is in the form of improving combat overall: a higher skill ceiling in melee and more precise animations will allow inf a lot more flexibility in how they can force kills on opponents. I really hope the plans don't involve simple damage buffs or more speed tweaks, which can help but don't solve the core issues. The shield damage has helped inf though.

Another much needed buff to inf is in the form of their shields not providing sufficient coverage from either ranged or melee. The shield movement system really hinders infantry in this regard.
Skirmishers
There is some concern about Skirmishers being too strong this patch. We will closely monitor the situation and make adjustments as required.
Skirmishers are inherently going to difficult to balance due to high accuracy they have while moving and their relative speed due to lighter nature. They are very brittle which is good but throwing weapons by their base mechanics have been made very frustrating, easy to use with great rewards. If we take the cav example above, an archer is very vulnerable to cav; they must stand still to be accurate, they are slow moving especially when aiming, they typically have only one shot and if they miss the cav are on them. Whereas a skirmisher can nearly full on sprint, they are still accurate doing so so long as they have readied the throw, and they quickly "reload" while still moving quickly, and can easily block in the middle of this if need be.

My suggestion would be to have a much more punishing movement penalty when aiming a throwing weapon. You probably don't agree as you see them as a natural counter to archers being able to chase them down while throwing, but the result of this is always going to be skirmishers simultaneously frustrating inf and cav more often with the same mechanics.
 
We already have a few approaches we are testing.
Unpopular opinion; reducing the amount of jereeds in half won't fix the brokenness of skirmishers. They still throw accurately whilst moving with really high damage and oh they have only 6 jereeds now? They will collect them back. Yes it makes it less common for a skirmisher to throw at everyone he sees because he has half the amount of jereeds now but they still take 2-3(1 with headshot) hits to kill a guy so IMO along with the number of jereeds nerf there should've been a minor accuracy nerf for all javelins, at least whilst moving.
 
Unpopular opinion; reducing the amount of jereeds in half won't fix the brokenness of skirmishers. They still throw accurately whilst moving with really high damage and oh they have only 6 jereeds now? They will collect them back. Yes it makes it less common for a skirmisher to throw at everyone he sees because he has half the amount of jereeds now but they still take 2-3(1 with headshot) hits to kill a guy so IMO along with the number of jereeds nerf there should've been a minor accuracy nerf for all javelins, at least whilst moving.
Wtf is wrong with killing 1 inf with 3 jareeds? U ok? How many do you want to endure? 5?
 
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