Why not just take wanderers who haven't been hired?
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Recruiting mercenary clan while have no money exploit
- Thread starter mexxico
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+1
That sounds very interesting and at the same time would be a plausible way to tackle this problem.
They will die also by time. So we need to create new wanderers. Actually this is also needed and another problem. If you continue game from your heir there will not be wanderers most will be past away.
Has this been changed? I remember a game a few month ago where new wanderers came to the game a few years after the start.
I love the idea of wanderers turning into mercenary lords as casualties happen.
Could we have new wanderers spawn over time? Let’s day the goal is to have 20 wanderers at a time, you could generate x wanderers a year depending on how low they get.
W<10 = +5
W<12 = +4
W<14 = +3
W<16= +2
W<20 = +1
If you make this check/generation either seasonal or annual, it wouldn’t need to run constantly in the background, so it wouldn’t be adding towards “slowing down the game”.
I need to check if this wanderer pool is limited or not. However because they all have background stories they should be limited. I have less info about this. Maybe we can add 100s of backgrounds and with a low probability new created wanderer can have same background story. If this is the case we can create new 1-2 wanderers each year.
New wanderers have been spawning for me, about 1 per season.
Are you getting them every season? Or like 4 at the start of a new year? I've never been able to pin it down but it does seem like we get a new batch (definitely more than 1-2) every year.
I don't think wanderers should be clan members of minority factions, they simply don't have the proper skills to run parties like the current lords do. Maybe if you gave them a skill injection if they joined the minor clan
Honestly should probably just inject new characters after their member count has been low for over a year. Year long period would give the player long enough to execute/kill all member of a minority clan if they truly wanted too. If a minority clan hits 0 members then let it die out, this would give the player the choice of eliminating a minority clan if they actively wanted too, but spawning new lords if they don't hit 0 also allow the deaths of a few of them without sending it to its inevitable doom. Also don't steal my traders from me.
Neither do a lot of the current minor faction members. Speaking after the skill fix, of course. They need Scouting, Tactics, Stewardship and most get over-invested into weapon skills instead.
not formed but replenished from fight-oriented wanderers of the same culture. or conversed from useless rebels which are pointlessly loafing here and there for years...
So I fired up things up to check/test this and I can't tell when they are being created. ?
I am definitely getting more of them though, so there are no worries about running out of companions in a super-long playthrough.???
Hey, please don't take this question the wrong way but have you actually played through this game? Honest question -- and I totally understand if the last ****ing thing you want to do is grind through your day job as a form of entertainment. But companions definitely recycle backgrounds.
When one spawns with a certain background (...the Grey Falcon) for example, if you talk to them then it gives the full story. If another Grey Falcon spawns after that, they will give a short version without much detail. That might have changed at some point since EA began (I remember reading some backgrounds twice but they might have spawned together at the start or my memory is mixing up different playthroughs) but it is has been around for awhile.
By all means, go ahead and write hundreds of backgrounds though. The companion choices are kinda limited -- and Aserai have basically the best everything, ever.
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Loaded up a playthrough that was almost 20 years (1102) in and I counted 134 companions so you are right there is an endless supply of them. Had basically 3 of every aserai companion type by that point.So I fired up things up to check/test this and I can't tell when they are being created. ?
Yep basically aserai and khuzaits have every type you need while the other factions companions are relatively useless when comparing similar stats.
My companions typically are majority spice vendors and swift (traders, aserai and khuzaits), with golden (best leader, aserai), the scholar ( best medic, aserai) and then vlandian the black (scout, can replace with khuzait Alone) and wainwirght (engineer, can replace with a aserai Engineer)
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LuciusDomitiusAurelianus
Sergeant
Instead of more backgrounds (They're not immersive enough to care about - not like in Warband where the companion would at least "sort of" interact with you) how about more modifiers or at least allowing other cultures to get some of the better modifiers. It's cool when I am stomping Aserai as SE to have culture-correct governors but not fun when I have to stick some random chungus Empire wanderer as a governor with 0 steward/charm. It would also be cool to have a "career pathing" sort of functionality for Wanderers such as having another clan's children be a part of my retinue / court - the bones are there via the children education tree now.
Back on topic: I do agree these Wanderers should periodically join Minor Factions, or even form their own, I know @mexxico mentioned that the Kingdom building code was pretty heavy and we likely won't see Rebels / Minor Factions start their own kingdom but that would really make it immersive and honestly temper down snowballing (unless all the new minor factions dogpiled a weakened kingdom...like they do). Another annoying piece is that all of the Minor Factions are hardcoded into wars - I sort of understand from a Lore perspective but if they can all be merc companies then hardcoding the war feels like I don't have much of a choice and I spend my time hunting and flinging javelins into them to stop my caravans from being ganked.
And yeah, please give us a way to manage mercs from the Clan / Kingdom tab instead of tracking them down - the AI can telepathically onboard Mercs, I should be able to as well.
Back on topic: I do agree these Wanderers should periodically join Minor Factions, or even form their own, I know @mexxico mentioned that the Kingdom building code was pretty heavy and we likely won't see Rebels / Minor Factions start their own kingdom but that would really make it immersive and honestly temper down snowballing (unless all the new minor factions dogpiled a weakened kingdom...like they do). Another annoying piece is that all of the Minor Factions are hardcoded into wars - I sort of understand from a Lore perspective but if they can all be merc companies then hardcoding the war feels like I don't have much of a choice and I spend my time hunting and flinging javelins into them to stop my caravans from being ganked.
And yeah, please give us a way to manage mercs from the Clan / Kingdom tab instead of tracking them down - the AI can telepathically onboard Mercs, I should be able to as well.
Actually I am not owner of this decision or comment maybe another dev said that. I think rebels to create their kingdoms with very low probability make game better in most terms - I support this idea. However I am a bit far to these codes / decisions at there and do not know what are the side effects of adding a new created kingdom to map.
LuciusDomitiusAurelianus
Sergeant
My apologies @mexxico - pretty sure it was early on in the Rebellion / Snowballing thread maybe it was another dev.
I think the negative side effects would be if a Rebellion pops a Kingdom without any of their own proactive diplomacy (hiring other dissatisfied clans, minor factions, creating more parties) they would be quickly steamrolled. Probably makes more sense with a "civil war" that was proposed in another thread to have the Rebellions of a specific culture decide to join "Loyalists" or "Separatists" of a civil war kingdom but only if there was a lockout that prevented those new factions / kingdoms from not breaking off on their own.
It would be very annoying to have "Poros Rebellion Kingdom" hire another clan and immediately turn into Poros Rebellion Kingdom Loyalists and Poros Rebellion Kingdom Separatists. And without a soft cap on the amount of wars a kingdom can fight I think it would turn into a dogpile and not materially slow down a Kingdom who is snowballing
The wanderers are currently way too bland and boring to be concerned with their backstories possibly repeating. Please, do not limit yourselves because of such menial concerns.
If it is necessary to spawn more wanderers as the campaign goes on, so that some of the old ones can join mercenary factions, by all means do so.
Yes, flavor is important, but that can be added later. For now it's more important that mechanics work better, so having a replenishing pool of characters that will keep mercenary factions alive would fix many issues.
Companions spawn once every 6 weeks (half a year), so the rate is 2 per year right now.
By the way, with the way the code is written in that if statement, it makes me believe the game isn't supposed to start spawning duplicate templates until all of the companion templates have been generated, but duplicates seem to spawn anyway, so it might be bugged. There are 64 companion templates and they all have unique backstories.
I like @Rycon Caldestan idea though. Depending on peoples' playstyles and how much they save scum or how aggressively they use their companions, it can be really easy to burn through the list of available companions at a faster rate than they spawn. 2-3 might die for every one that spawns. Doing it as suggested would help players when the number of remaining companions is low, but otherwise wouldn't impact the game.
I guess the drawback might be that people could abuse that system to kill off companions until they get the ones they want to spawn.
I like @Rycon Caldestan idea though. Depending on peoples' playstyles and how much they save scum or how aggressively they use their companions, it can be really easy to burn through the list of available companions at a faster rate than they spawn. 2-3 might die for every one that spawns. Doing it as suggested would help players when the number of remaining companions is low, but otherwise wouldn't impact the game.
I guess the drawback might be that people could abuse that system to kill off companions until they get the ones they want to spawn.
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GrandiousBrain
Regular
1)Yes few hours/1/2/3 days depending on distance.Thank you for all feedbacks. Yes having a limitation per messenger or if this messenger spends a reasonable time to reach that person (like 1-2-3 days according to distance) and again spends a reasonable time to come back after dialog (additional 1-2-3 days according to distance) this can reduce exploits.
However dialogs are mostly designed like player is talking with them or there is an active party encounter (means our party and other hero's party is encountered at that moment) this can create new problems maybe need to think. Also at some dialogs where only opened if opposite leader is at settlement probably assume we are at settlement too. Otherwise we cannot speak with them. So these type of dialogs can create problem too because when they opened we will not be at that settlement and assumptions will be false.
If side effects are solved this can be a good quality of life improvement imo but maybe they can say this feature does not suit well to our sandbox world or our game is not that kind of game you should open dialog with npcs from distance, I cannot know this
2)When messenger is long distance (lord that you are reaching out to via messenger) you dont get the usual pop up in person dialogue but instead lets say for example you pay messanger or send your companion with some soldiers for protection to the lord that you want to contact via message.When the messenger/companion reaches out to that Lord/mercenary/person of interest then you wait for it to come back with an answer but instead of usual pop up of in person dialogue sceen with that Lord instead we get a pop up of messenger or companion screen when we then recieve a message via dialogue and then the letter(scroll) screen will then pop up with the message inscribed/written on that letter and letter can be stylized in old medieval way (have that old medieval look to it).
If that is way to much work then atleast minimum if you are not in person giving and recieving the message but use messengers instead then it should atleast be like wait to send and recieve the message then once messenger returns you then get a pop up on the right or middle of the screen that the letter containing the answer has been recieved and then you click on it and it will open a letter/pop up the letter where in text it is written the demands or answer of that lord that is distant from.
That should work the best for when you trying to reach distant lords but when you personaly are close to the lord or going yorself to the lord then we get that usual dialogue pop up screen where we see the Lord and do dialogues with the lord in face/personaly (what we alredy have).
Also when it comes to messanger mechanic/feature sending messangers should cost gold/denars (representing search for the needed lord and traveling expenses).Its up to you to see if the payment will be upfront/fixed price or if payment will be paid/done when the messenger finish its work and then depending on how much days it took to find the Lord and come back with an answer will determen how much player will need to pay for messengers services but if messenger is a companion then its free but you will not have companinon for day or two (depending on distance) and IF POSIBLE it would be great if you select wrong companion for the messenger work (chose grumpy warrior ) to do your message erands then you may get a hit on relation with that companion so you must wisely chose who/wich companion and at what time you will chose to send on messanger duty/mission.
LuciusDomitiusAurelianus
Sergeant
+1
I think the adding protection piece really adds "skin in the game" for the player. They can risk sending a messenger at the cost of having to use a companion, lose troops, pay gold, and ultimately the Lord can say "no" or their party can get ambushed en-route. That adds a good amount of player choice and risk management decisions into something that is really such a boring ass chore.
@mexxico I saw it mentioned earlier in the thread about how the dialog would be a bit weird since it's supposed to be in first person. One thing that may help with not breaking that dynamic (and requiring a lot more writing of lines) is to have a pop-up on the right (like war/peace/marriage) and then your "perspective" changes to your companion - almost like a "flash forward" in a movie. You don't *need* to change to the other character, but it would help maintain perspective and won't need a new chat menu redesign and allow for barters, etc.
CrazyElf
Sergeant
I think these "issues" are good things to be honest.
Having to chase someone for a week isn't fun. Without a mod, I have to look in the encyclopedia, and try to look for the "last seen" location and often by the time I'm there, they are gone. This is not fun. It is tedious and detracts from the game.
As far as making peace easier, you are still going to have to pay the denars. Defections still are not possible in an army and must pass the charm check.
To be honest, the first quest needs a major rework.
I'm of the opinion that if these are the issues, it should be added into the game. A case could be made for delays (ex: depending on distance) and a denar cost for the sending of a messenger, but that is about it.
I'm currently relying on a mod to solve these.
Actually now I am examining codes which causes mercenary clans to leave their actual kingdom and I see it is happening pretty common. Probably fixing this is a must and first thing need to be done about these problems. Then I can move messenger idea to suggestion meeting if we can find solutions to side effects.
By the way I also follow these boards and I really liked this idea they throw about suggestion 2 in meeting screenshot. These are the dialogs Bannerlord really need, I can suggest it as "if caught npc says ok (if he is weak he will say "ok, you will not see me around here for a time") to this offer and if we release that npc there can be 20 days of raid cooldown for only that lord" so he will not come again raiding one of your villages (maybe if he is dishonorable he doesn't keep promise and can come again but it can be hard to tell player why he did not keep promise) :
Put a warning for players in the diplomacy screen.
Characters with dishonorable trait should have a warning saying that they are likely to be dishonest. Honorable should be 100% honest, and people without this trait (neutral) will keep their word most of the time.
