There is no counter-play against kick-slash

[OurGloriousLeader]

How has it not been the case when it comes to kicking since forever ?

In Warband kicking was not used in 2v1s, unless the person was completely trapped which is situational. In fact it was the easiest way to lose your advantage due to how easy it was to be punished for a missed kick. Early beta in BL it wasn't either because people hadn't figured out how to abuse them yet/they may have buffed them, don't recall.

 

[Steelo]

Kick slash is currently broken because there is no reliable counterplay against it, whereas kick-slash is a reliable strategy against your opponent.
The game moves towards making feints until the opponent starts blocking these potential attacks which make his feet movement slower,
then walking up to him, kicking him, and straight-up attacking. You will always win against an opponent with slower movement.
You could potentially try to avoid it by going sideways or backward but your player movement in that situation is slower so you become vulnerable for kick slash again.
You could try chambering these potential feint attacks but chambering is not reliable enough right now to pull this off. But in that situation, you have to take a risk where your opponent just performs a reliable kick-slash strategy.

Risks on the current pusher/attacker side:
1. He only risks being kicked but that can be easily mitigated by not getting too close to your opponent. You are walking forward so that is simple to do since you have quicker movement. You can fake walking up to him causing him to try to kick you which makes him unable to perform kick again for the next few seconds which in turn put you in the comfortable position of performing a reliable kick-slash strategy.

Risks on the current defender side:
1. He risks being kick slashed when trying to block feints causing him to be slower.
2. He risks being hit when dropping a block in order to kick and survive the potential kick slash.
Both points can be heavily abused by the pusher/attacker by holding an attack and walking up to your opponent waiting for him to either drop the attack->you attack him or if he does not do anything then kick slash him.

One possible solution against such broken mechanics would an allowance to kick while holding block attack, right now when doing block+kick we trigger bash attack.
If we were allowed to choose separated keyboard shortcuts for bash and kick, the opponent would be able to reliably kick me while I push at him making feints.

They already nerfed the kick. I dont want it again actually. I don't think the problem here is not the current state of the kick. There are multiple counterplay against kick. You can keep your distance and you have to think about your opponent's moves and you can easily punish him, especially if you spam to the right or left sides by using s or w key according to situation of fight. Most important thing is not to get caught. Older patches this was nearly impossible it was so easy to catch an opponent by using a kick. But i dont think we need an adjust for kick for now.

 

[Greedalicious]

They already nerfed the kick. I dont want it again actually. I don't think the problem here is not the current state of the kick. There are multiple counterplay against kick. You can keep your distance and you have to think about your opponent's moves and you can easily punish him, especially if you spam to the right or left sides by using s or w key according to situation of fight. Most important thing is not to get caught. Older patches this was nearly impossible it was so easy to catch an opponent by using a kick. But i dont think we need an adjust for kick for now.

Dont nerf it, fix it. Kicks are hitting when theres no way they should be, when the target is either not in range or too far to the side. In theory theres ways to avoid being kicked yeah, atleast in 1v1.

 

[Younes]

More salt than the Mediterranean has.

More salt then the dead sea, to the point you are kicked by anti cheat for flying

 

[Steelo]

Dont nerf it, fix it. Kicks are hitting when theres no way they should be, when the target is either not in range or too far to the side. In theory theres ways to avoid being kicked yeah, atleast in 1v1.

This isnt a issue or maybe counted an issue but i know what you meant. It seems that animation doesnt keep up with player reflexes and it seems to you that way. Server and lag also may affect this situation

 

[Greedalicious]

This isnt a issue or maybe counted an issue but i know what you meant. It seems that animation doesnt keep up with player reflexes and it seems to you that way. Server and lag also may affect this situation

I dont mean invisible kicks, I mean this.

 

[Hairless]

I dont mean invisible kicks, I mean this.

It's synchronization problems. 2 different people see different things. Easiest example is when you kill someone with pila, the pila is gonna be in different body part for 2 different people. But yeah it has to be fixed.

 

[Greedalicious]

It's synchronization problems. 2 different people see different things. Easiest example is when you kill someone with pila, the pila is gonna be in different body part for 2 different people. But yeah it has to be fixed.

Potentially 3 people see different things, Berta saw the kick land, I saw it miss, not sure what the third guy saw, but yeah until this is fixed, its hard to say kicks arnt broken.

 

[Gotha]

I am quite sure that there is a general problem with server / client synchronization of stances. That would also cause this exact issue, cause a kick with his right foot might have hit.

 

[Einarcf]

I think it might have hit sword arm. Check the logs. There are definitely times when I got kicked, and the damage report said it hit my arm. I think arm hitbox/animation might differ from Warband, but I am not sure, so could explain that situation.

 

[Steelo]

I think it might have hit sword arm. Check the logs. There are definitely times when I got kicked, and the damage report said it hit my arm. I think arm hitbox/animation might differ from Warband, but I am not sure, so could explain that situation.

I thought the same way too.

 

[Greedalicious]

So we have to expect the hitbox of kicks to be twice the size of the character? Almost 3 times considering the wide swings?

 

[Younes]

That's a very massive desync problem if you telling me on the screen that guy is right infront of him, it's not off by a few frames but by a dozen.

 

[TheBard]

So we have to expect the hitbox of kicks to be twice the size of the character? Almost 3 times considering the wide swings?

It's not about the combat not working it's about the synchronization being ****.

Tbh, Bannerlord Melee Combat and Kicks atm are more or less fine and the main problem we face at the moment is the disadvantage of actually going to melee if you can simply remove the opponent by lance or bolt or arrow from the playing field. This should be adressed first and has way higher priority imo.

PSA: If you learn how to kick yourself, you're less likely to get kicked.

 

[Gibby Jr]

It's not about the combat not working it's about the synchronization being ****.

Tbh, Bannerlord Melee Combat and Kicks atm are more or less fine and the main problem we face at the moment is the disadvantage of actually going to melee if you can simply remove the opponent by lance or bolt or arrow from the playing field. This should be adressed first and has way higher priority imo.

PSA: If you learn how to kick yourself, you're less likely to get kicked.

making kicks punishable, tightening the arcs on left and right swings and increasing the size of player capsules to reduce the "sliding" effect are all pretty important issues with the melee right now. there are other problems with cav and xbows too, which are arguably more important to the skirmish dynamic, but the melee issues are very noticeable.

the thing with kicks is that i do not see why it's enough to just be able to avoid a kick. if they land they get a free hit, so should there not be an opportunity for you to punish reckless kick spammers? yes, sometimes you can do so if you're already in a good position to get around them, but most of the time these kind of players get away with spamming their E key without any repercussions. it incites players to use outranging and to avoid getting too close to an opponent, which imo is a situation in which proper melee fights are discouraged.

 

[Revverie]

Huh, if only chambers were a thing... Meanwhile in Mordhau ............

 

[Greedalicious]

making kicks punishable, tightening the arcs on left and right swings and increasing the size of player capsules to reduce the "sliding" effect are all pretty important issues with the melee right now. there are other problems with cav and xbows too, which are arguably more important to the skirmish dynamic, but the melee issues are very noticeable.

the thing with kicks is that i do not see why it's enough to just be able to avoid a kick. if they land they get a free hit, so should there not be an opportunity for you to punish reckless kick spammers? yes, sometimes you can do so if you're already in a good position to get around them, but most of the time these kind of players get away with spamming their E key without any repercussions. it incites players to use outranging and to avoid getting too close to an opponent, which imo is a situation in which proper melee fights are discouraged.

I see Div A and B players literally only running up to try to land a kick, and if it misses, I cant hit back, so they simply continue trying to get the kick. Thats the whole strategy.
I rarely get kicked, but just watching them run at me without shields up and just trying to get kicks off is annoying considering I'm used to being able to punish mistakes. And then theres the damnn feints...

It's not about the combat not working it's about the synchronization being ****.

Tbh, Bannerlord Melee Combat and Kicks atm are more or less fine and the main problem we face at the moment is the disadvantage of actually going to melee if you can simply remove the opponent by lance or bolt or arrow from the playing field. This should be adressed first and has way higher priority imo.

PSA: If you learn how to kick yourself, you're less likely to get kicked.

I disagree, I think the melee combat is incredibly unfun to play not just because of the kicks being stupid, but the overall mechanics are frustrating to face off against.
Other people are way better at explaining it than I am, but the way blocking works, the difference in movement speed, weapon handling etc makes me not want to play melee, when I can just fire a lightning bolt from across the map and insta kill.
Kicking was incredibly fun in the last game that shall not be named, in Bannerlord it feels wrong and cheesy.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

In this 40s fight, Jufasto tries 4 kicks, 3 of which miss.

Just a great meta.

 

[KSHMR]

No, you're right. 1vs1s are always a bad idea anyway in skirmish, but when you are forced into one, you want to end it as quickly as possible before risking getting outnumbered yourself. Currently it's still very hard to burn through a heavy inf that decides to play defensively. The kicks are what allow you to put a much stricter timer on these types of encounters, which is why I don't like the idea of doing anything about them right now.

This is contradictive to most high level team playstyles. If you end up in a 1v1 you wanna make sure you don't get shot and don't get backstabbed by cav. Thats all. Playing aggressively will make you lose attention to surroundings more and get you killed. Infantry just stays alive while archers and cav collect the kills. Infantry in this game is not designed to decide games so the best you can do is facilitate for your team (archers and cav).

And about kicks, people complain about them but if you look out for them you can easily dodge them, unless youre in a 2v1 or 3v1 then you'll get fooked.

 

[KSHMR]

It's synchronization problems. 2 different people see different things. Easiest example is when you kill someone with pila, the pila is gonna be in different body part for 2 different people. But yeah it has to be fixed.

So what you're saying is the hitbox is correct, its just server side or client side problems?