There is no counter-play against kick-slash

Is kick-slash broken?

  • Yes

    Votes: 53 45.3%
  • No

    Votes: 53 45.3%
  • dunno

    Votes: 11 9.4%

  • Total voters
    117

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Yes they can, I can do it even with Menavlions.

I don't think kicks will be a massive problem if they make infantry with shields faster, which is what everyone is asking for anyways. It's a little too easy to kickslash enemy infantry with shields.
Could also just make kicks slower, if they're being used defensively anyway then why not just make them more akin to Warband and slower with a longer punishment window, but with a longer stun on successful hit? They're not "OP" anymore, but in every inf fight among the comp players I see kicks are constantly thrown out, sometimes just predictively trying to catch some free damage with a quick recovery if it was a miss. Doesn't seem the ideal meta really.
 
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The only reason you'd vote 'no' is because you counter kick-slash with a kick-slash, so once you've learnt it, you enjoy it and become a dirty kick-slash user!!. I would say that it should be used more as a defensive move rather than aggressive, or at least make it very situational (like if a person is in between two of you against a wall, kicking is a good option). At the moment, the length of the kick is silly, feels like my leg is double its size!
 
there is a consistent counter. know when its coming and switch move direction. works.

although very easily doable in duel, the extent to which you can do this in a match is much more limited by other factors like cavalry, archers, the location of the fight etc. i mean, in previous versions you couldn’t even walk backwards without getting kicked. that’s not the case now but it demonstrates the reliance on kicking which exists for melee in this game and i think it’s a bigger problem than many bannerlord players realise. sure there are many many aspects of bannerlord i disagree with and dislike, as many warband players do, but if the melee was fun or close to as good as warband I’d be able to play it just for that, regardless of balance issues with matches.

the fact is that many warband players do not enjoy bannerlord and one of the key reasons for that is the melee. the over-reliance on kicking is one pretty large reason why i find the melee less enjoyable in this game. in warband, kicking is a rhythm breaker and something which you can very easily be punished for doing. if you kick too much in a duel the opponent can easily get around you as the recovery time is longer, or your opponent can stab into the kick to guarantee damage. kicking too much in warband, or doing so inaccurately, means that you take damage and if you were to miss in a groupfight in battle you’d probably get hit 2 or 3 times and die. it being so risky in warband is justified because if you land the kick you get a free hit. a free hit is a pretty big deal, and kick someone in battle they’re probably going to take more than one hit if your team is there to assist. yes, you can be punished for kicking and missing in bannerlord, but it is much harder to do it and very often players get away with just kicking as much as they want.

the fact that kicking breaks the normal pace of the melee means that its overuse appears to constitute a broken melee, to me and to many others. i imagine it gets very frustrating very quickly for lower level players and for players from other melee games to get kicked repeatedly when they’re expecting to be using the melee to win.

yes you can move out of the way by predicting the kick, but that’s not enough in my opinion. if someone kicks and misses there should be the opportunity to punish them with damage, as there was in warband. it’s too powerful otherwise. the speed of the kick itself should be lowered, to make evading by moving or jumping easier, and the recovery time after kicking should be increased so that there is a window for the missed kick to be punished. i have no doubt that every bannerlord player under the sun disagrees with this, but kicking is far too strong in this game and you cannot possibly disagree that there is an over-reliance on it by infantry in matches and to a lesser extent duel.
 
As a means to end a fight, I don't really see a problem with kicking becoming the deciding move. The only issue right now (in my opinion) is the huge difference in movement speed between certain classes that basically guarantees that you'll be killed with a kickslash in certain situations. A dismounted cavarly against a shock inf is a good example for this. Yes, a cavarly shouldn't be on par with infantry, but it seems like no matter how skilled you are, you are utterly screwed in this matchup. You don't have the reach to go for anything but facehug (killed by defensive kick), and you don't have the movement speed to avoid offensive kicking reliably.
 
As a means to end a fight, I don't really see a problem with kicking becoming the deciding move.
Do you really need this as a means to end the fight though? Seems like people have no issue winning melee fights without, through outnumbering in group fights and feints/good pressure in duels. Kicks seem more like a shortcut, not a necessity.
 
Do you really need this as a means to end the fight though? Seems like people have no issue winning melee fights without, through outnumbering in group fights and feints/good pressure in duels. Kicks seem more like a shortcut, not a necessity.
No, you're right. 1vs1s are always a bad idea anyway in skirmish, but when you are forced into one, you want to end it as quickly as possible before risking getting outnumbered yourself. Currently it's still very hard to burn through a heavy inf that decides to play defensively. The kicks are what allow you to put a much stricter timer on these types of encounters, which is why I don't like the idea of doing anything about them right now.
 
Can't they just S-key while still being defensive and so you can't kick them? Kicks being strong would then actually discourage the defensive player taking you on in melee, therefore. The only times I get kicked are when I actually try to fight someone and pressure them/get around them.
 
As a means to end a fight, I don't really see a problem with kicking becoming the deciding move. The only issue right now (in my opinion) is the huge difference in movement speed between certain classes that basically guarantees that you'll be killed with a kickslash in certain situations. A dismounted cavarly against a shock inf is a good example for this. Yes, a cavarly shouldn't be on par with infantry, but it seems like no matter how skilled you are, you are utterly screwed in this matchup. You don't have the reach to go for anything but facehug (killed by defensive kick), and you don't have the movement speed to avoid offensive kicking reliably.
the difference may well be too extreme between different classes, but even among those of the same or similar movement speed kicks are the most pervasive move and the move most used to try and force kills. it seems quite odd to me that a move which interrupts the melee should be the most common move in a melee game. it is the most common move because it is very hard to punish. it is not enough simply that you can move out of the way:
there is a consistent counter. know when its coming and switch move direction. works.
the counter should not only be that you can predict it and move, but that you can then punish the miss and ideally it should even be possible to reactively avoid kicks. this is simply a matter of reducing the speed of the kick and increasing the recovery time after a kick. to balance it out, i do agree with OGL that alongside those changes the kicked player should be stunned for longer. i simply do not see how it can be argued that such a strong move should have such limited potential to be punished
 
although very easily doable in duel, the extent to which you can do this in a match is much more limited by other factors like cavalry, archers, the location of the fight etc. i mean, in previous versions you couldn’t even walk backwards without getting kicked. that’s not the case now but it demonstrates the reliance on kicking which exists for melee in this game and i think it’s a bigger problem than many bannerlord players realise. sure there are many many aspects of bannerlord i disagree with and dislike, as many warband players do, but if the melee was fun or close to as good as warband I’d be able to play it just for that, regardless of balance issues with matches.

the fact is that many warband players do not enjoy bannerlord and one of the key reasons for that is the melee. the over-reliance on kicking is one pretty large reason why i find the melee less enjoyable in this game. in warband, kicking is a rhythm breaker and something which you can very easily be punished for doing. if you kick too much in a duel the opponent can easily get around you as the recovery time is longer, or your opponent can stab into the kick to guarantee damage. kicking too much in warband, or doing so inaccurately, means that you take damage and if you were to miss in a groupfight in battle you’d probably get hit 2 or 3 times and die. it being so risky in warband is justified because if you land the kick you get a free hit. a free hit is a pretty big deal, and kick someone in battle they’re probably going to take more than one hit if your team is there to assist. yes, you can be punished for kicking and missing in bannerlord, but it is much harder to do it and very often players get away with just kicking as much as they want.

the fact that kicking breaks the normal pace of the melee means that its overuse appears to constitute a broken melee, to me and to many others. i imagine it gets very frustrating very quickly for lower level players and for players from other melee games to get kicked repeatedly when they’re expecting to be using the melee to win.

yes you can move out of the way by predicting the kick, but that’s not enough in my opinion. if someone kicks and misses there should be the opportunity to punish them with damage, as there was in warband. it’s too powerful otherwise. the speed of the kick itself should be lowered, to make evading by moving or jumping easier, and the recovery time after kicking should be increased so that there is a window for the missed kick to be punished. i have no doubt that every bannerlord player under the sun disagrees with this, but kicking is far too strong in this game and you cannot possibly disagree that there is an over-reliance on it by infantry in matches and to a lesser extent duel.
The way you describe kicks is exactly how it was BEFORE the kick nerfs. Are you talking about competitive matches on this patch?
 
My only thing I dislike about kick slash is when I s key in a shameful display I still can be kicked lmao
 
i agree with the post, the range of kicks should be the same as it is in warband where you cannot get kicked while backing up,

it is being abused right now with people maxing out their character height and therefore increasing the kicking range,

please revert to warband kicking mechanic, losing to someone who charges feinting attacks to get you to backup and kicking you isn't fun gameplay (unless there is a counter im not aware of)

thank you for reading
 
I think kick-slash is not supposed to be used as an agressive mechanic.It needs to be defensive only so I'd say it still needs more changes but it's still broken.As someone who does not use it much it's still pretty strong when you fight on stairs and tight spaces.
 
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