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The 'Consolization' of Mount and Blade and Bannerlord
- Thread starter stevepine
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D0c1
Knight at Arms
but he's saying that they said that features that already existed in warband is too complex now.
we never had village building in warband.
i hate this change but they didn't change it specifically because of consoles. they did it because they think people are dumb. they're right in their thought but they should have added tooltips or auto-builder/management to villages instead of scraping the feature.
They couldn't design it properly and didn't try, that's about it. Complex features get dropped pretty fast when deadlines start getting missed.
Just watch some modder making the same feature without overly complex rules or any loopholes or convoluted UI. It's just a matter of good design and they couldn't be assed because it was not important to them.
Just watch some modder making the same feature without overly complex rules or any loopholes or convoluted UI. It's just a matter of good design and they couldn't be assed because it was not important to them.
yes, fix the leveling up and I'm one happy lad. Literally don't have any other big criticism about the game
...Dev mexxico answering, in a thread about "implementing complex features for the future", that they still have to complete some basic game features before...
...he said also they have "some limits and that they have to work between these limits"...
Source: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...mpelex-features-come-from.437377/post-9618455
...he said also they have "some limits and that they have to work between these limits"...
Source: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...mpelex-features-come-from.437377/post-9618455
It's neither about consoles nor about people being dumb.
The problem is that the game already is quite complex, almost everything that happens in the game is based on world events rather than simulation and AI cheats. If a clan has money or not depends on what's happening in the game for example. Some features would make the game so complex that the AI couldn't handle it anymore.
I believe they already have lined up a third-party to make them a DLC/expansion, but everyone is waiting for the main game to become stable before they can start with development. The poor DLC guys are just having to sit around and wait.
Quick self-reflection and re-prioritize their work? Bannerlord took 8 years to go into Early Access. We are almost 1 year into Early Access and we are still missing some perks.
I would like them to rather finish the game, it will take a long time even without adding more complex gameplay.
It probably will never be as complex as some people want it to be, we just have to wait for the great mods for that.
I suspect the management realized a while a go that this is as good as it gets and because of that set themselves the following goals:
-save the company by getting revenue
-get revenue by getting cash from early access
-limit further development before they lose even more cash
-increase revenue by accessing a wider player base (console) at minimum effort (relatively similar game for pc and console instead of two completely different versions)
My impression is that the devs still care and i suspect they're being hampered by some 'business' manager(s) with no love for the game.
-save the company by getting revenue
-get revenue by getting cash from early access
-limit further development before they lose even more cash
-increase revenue by accessing a wider player base (console) at minimum effort (relatively similar game for pc and console instead of two completely different versions)
My impression is that the devs still care and i suspect they're being hampered by some 'business' manager(s) with no love for the game.
The thing that saddens me about it is that, they want implement something that ALL other Companies only work after few years the game bee a major success on PC, unless the game already was planned for Console, most of all they want a "fast paced game", which goes against what Mount and Blade genre is, which I see it as "strategy, war", something mix in Total war franchise and CK franchise (in Bannerlord)
If they wanted a fast paced game, they could have gone on the way of Hack and Slash games, action, etc... One I love is The Cursed Crusade, an old game, but one that I love everytime I play, there's Metal Gear.. or even the same model as Elder Scrolls franchise
They also has fans of thistype of Game.
It's bit sad, how Armagan and the other see their own game or doesn't even know the type of product they want.. Why don't you hire a SCRUM master for your team, man?
If they wanted a fast paced game, they could have gone on the way of Hack and Slash games, action, etc... One I love is The Cursed Crusade, an old game, but one that I love everytime I play, there's Metal Gear.. or even the same model as Elder Scrolls franchise
They also has fans of thistype of Game.
It's bit sad, how Armagan and the other see their own game or doesn't even know the type of product they want.. Why don't you hire a SCRUM master for your team, man?
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five bucks
Knight at Arms
Well put OP. One thing though. I don't know if "wider audience" is necessarily the full reason for TW not committing to bringing back Warband's missing features. I think that based on what we've heard from the Glassdoor reviews, it's more a combination of some employees slacking off/working on whatever they feel like, lack of priorities as you said, and lack of experienced employees. Although on the other hand, some of Taleworlds' justifications for the unpopular MP system definitely sound like casualization is a factor to some degree.
Overall you're right, Taleworlds need to set priorities. Long-term goals, shared with the community who are funding them to make this game. These goals should include: replicating Warband's good features to make Bannerlord a true sequel, and then fully implementing everything that was advertised in their devblogs. Those seem like logical priorities they should be able to accomplish.
I agree with the gist of your post: it's more likely an issue of ability (or unwillingness) than it is an issue of casualization.
However, if you're implying that lack of ability to do things before the deadline can excuse TW cutting back on features from Warband, I disagree with that mindset. The deadline they suggested for EA release was not set in stone; if it takes delaying the release to actually complete this game and make it a good sequel to Warband, then they can and should (they've made enough money from EA sales to afford it).
It shouldn't be this hard to simply replicate Warband's features. That game was made 10 years ago with 10x less employees, so it's not an unfair expectation by any means.
M&B classic was built by two persons (Armagan and his wife) and had like 90% of the features already, Warband only enhanced/polished them a bit and added a few new things (multiplayer being the major one)
Yes, why have such a long list of skills? It's so confusing. Players can't count past 3 cuz our fingers are busy with our... gamepads.
Morrowind was weird and mysterious and interesting. I had to study for a week to figure out how not to ruin my character. It paid off with incredible customization. Ironically, Taleworlds caught the "streamlining" bug but also recreated the most confusing part of Morrowind's leveling system...leveling the wrong skills penalizes you.
Why not TWENTY magic skills/schools? For the same reason that three is enough and because one of game design's principles is economy.
Skills also need to be very roughly equivalent to each other. If your game is about melee fighting and magic, having, say, 8 melee and 3 magic skills is reasonable if magic plays a supporting part (like in Elder Scrolls), or having 5 melee and 5 magic skills is fine if magic is crucial to the game.
Skills also need to be very roughly equivalent to each other. If your game is about melee fighting and magic, having, say, 8 melee and 3 magic skills is reasonable if magic plays a supporting part (like in Elder Scrolls), or having 5 melee and 5 magic skills is fine if magic is crucial to the game.
I have a hard time understanding what the almost 100 people working on this are actually doing. Seems to be Mexxico and like 5 others doing everything. And totally agree with most of you guys, dumbing down the M&B formula is ruining what made it great to begin with.. If anything there should've been way more stuff than Viking Conquest considering it's made by a team 10 times the size.
Bannerlord lacks so many of those "extra" things, which are not even hard to do. Which makes me wonder why they're not doing it.
An example would be custom companions with indepth backstories and special dialogues and quests. Why couldn't 1 of the interns have done those?
Bannerlord lacks so many of those "extra" things, which are not even hard to do. Which makes me wonder why they're not doing it.
An example would be custom companions with indepth backstories and special dialogues and quests. Why couldn't 1 of the interns have done those?
I can't see how the problem with bannerlord is "streamlining". Missing mechanics isn't streamlining, its just missing mechanics. The mechanics which are present are way more convoluted than warband or viking cumquest ever were. I still don't properly understand the levelling system. I don't know exactly how combat works. Granted I haven't played much, last time I touched the game was months ago, but of all the things you could call bannerlord, "streamlined" or "casualised" isn't one of them.
The leveling system is just badly designed. It's **** and frustrating.
Most Warband players don't fully understand the depth of combat either, but at least it's fun to play, so no real change there.
The streamlining in Bannerlord is things like:
- the lack of interaction with NPCs. In WB and VC, we can give suggestions about what to do to other lords (go siege X, go patrol, flee in this direction...), marriage is a bit more interactive instead of just RNG, there is still a lot of room for improvement. This is just straight dumbed down in BL.
We can't even tell our own clan members what to do FFS. Modders created a mod to do that like 2 weeks after EA started, without modding tools. WTF is Taleworlds doing?
- The general lack of things to do outside of just fighting. In the old games, we can do a bit of intrigue, sabotaging other kingdoms' stability, help make peace by doing quest, etc... It's primitive, but the idea is there to expand on.
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