Resolved [Beta 1.5.6] Peace requirements for defeated Kingdom are unbalanced

[Lord Drenth]

I *THINK this is a bug.

In this playthrough Screenshot I have defeated all of the fiefs/settlements of the Northern Empire. Since my last declaration of war, I took their last settlement and have destroyed their military. However, no matter how much time passes the Northern Empire will ONLY demand payment from me for peace and I just can't figure out why. The only stat on the list that they have more 'wins' is the number of successful raids, and that's because they don't own any villages for me to raid, or I would. Shouldn't he be paying ME?

Could it be because the AI's math shows that there is no income unless there are tribute payments? Lucan has numerous mercenary units in his employ, but I don't know how he pays for them outside of declaring war all the time with the other Kingdoms and I assume getting tribute from them for peace.

Is the game designed to be this way? Unless I start executing all of the remaining Northern clan members, he will never go away.

 

[40i4]

I also noticed this. Southern Empire, that already had no fiefs and consisted of only the ruler clan declared war on me. I reduced their total strngth to ~10 TWICE (they get defeated, rebuilt their armies and get defeated again) and they still demand 500-600 denars for peace

 

[bFaceIII]

Hi! Forwarded to QA team. I'll update this thread when I hear back from them. Thanks!

 

[Lord Drenth]

Hi! Forwarded to QA team. I'll update this thread when I hear back from them. Thanks!

TY!

 

[bFaceIII]

Could you upload your save file to upload.taleworlds.com so that we can reproduce the issue faster. You can find the save file here:
C:\Users\username\Documents\Mount and Blade II Bannerlord\Game Saves
Please include the link to this thread in the description box on the upload website so I can identify it.

 

[40i4]

I'll check if I have appriopriate save file, but i think we need to wait until similar situation happen in my playthrough.

 

[Lord Drenth]

I'm embarrassed to say, no I can't. I saved over them and have since added in mods to help me combat the problem. Guess close this thread and if it happens again in my next vanilla play through I will repost.

 

[Drakeir]

This is happening to me. I eliminated 2 kingdoms and yet they say I need to pay 3000 a day tribute to make peace. They have no fiefs or anything and maybe 140 troops compared to my 6,000. I have tried multiple attempts to see if I can avoid this problem but I cannot. In one instance all empires waged war on me and it would cost me 40,000 a day to make peace with them all even though im stronger than half and have more raids, sieges, inflicted casualties and prisoners to them. The more one sided it is towards me the more "I HAVE TO PAY"

 

[bFaceIII]

I have been informed that this is not a bug. The Northern Empire has nothing to lose and therefore demands more. Thanks for reporting and sorry for inconvenience!

 

[Drakeir]

I have been informed that this is not a bug. The Northern Empire has nothing to lose and therefore demands more. Thanks for reporting and sorry for inconvenience!

I've had so many different variants where I'm defeating the enemy in all areas and not and there is no scenario in which they pay us anymore. If that is not a big I think that is just crap.

 

[Lord Drenth]

I have been informed that this is not a bug. The Northern Empire has nothing to lose and therefore demands more. Thanks for reporting and sorry for inconvenience!

Thank you for confirming for me one way or the other. The problem with this path is the kingdom has tons of Mercs that just constantly harass unless I pay a huge fee. They constantly declare war against everyone and take the peace $. So my only option to eliminate this is to kill all the nobles of the faction, which I can't do without pissing off the entire map?

 

[mexxico]

Thank you for confirming for me one way or the other. The problem with this path is the kingdom has tons of Mercs that just constantly harass unless I pay a huge fee. They constantly declare war against everyone and take the peace $. So my only option to eliminate this is to kill all the nobles of the faction, which I can't do without pissing off the entire map?

If in a kingdom no towns or castles left this means they have no tax income, 66% of income come from town / village taxes at game remaining is loot & tribute income. Maybe also they get paid by other kingdoms for peace and these numbers can be around 1000-2000 per day maximum. With these conditions they cannot hire mercenaries for long years. At some point king will not be able to pay mercenaries and they will left that kingdom. After that only king clan will be left in that kingdom probably other clans will leave them in several years and they will want less money for peace.

There was a bug and mercenaries were not leaving kingdom when they are not getting paid. It will be fixed with 1.5.8 maybe it helps.

 

[Rycon Caldestan]

If in a kingdom no towns or castles left this means they have no tax income, 66% of income come from town / village taxes at game remaining is loot & tribute income. Maybe also they get paid by other kingdoms for peace and these numbers can be around 1000-2000 per day maximum. With these conditions they cannot hire mercenaries for long years. At some point king will not be able to pay mercenaries and they will left that kingdom. After that only king clan will be left in that kingdom probably other clans will leave them in several years and they will want less money for peace.

There was a bug and mercenaries were not leaving kingdom when they are not getting paid. It will be fixed with 1.5.8 maybe it helps.

Does/will this apply to a player merc company as well? If so, is there any notice to the player?

 

[mexxico]

Does/will this apply to a player merc company as well? If so, is there any notice to the player?

Yes it will be applied to player as well. I do not know how we inform player currently when one of his mercenaries leave. Is it stated at left bottom comments? If not it can be good adding some kind of information there.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

@Lord Drenth so its kind of confusing at first, but what you see for the tributes on the diplomacy screen is representative of YOU wanting peace. If you could see Northern empires diplomacy screen it would be a completely different value for them to offer peace.

@mexxico the true issue here is AI factions will not offer peace to kingdoms with the player in it. This makes it so if the player ever wants to get out of a war they have to take their peace tribute instead of the opposite sides tribute (which would be more advantageous for the the player since they aren't asking for peace).

 

[mexxico]

@Lord Drenth so its kind of confusing at first, but what you see for the tributes on the diplomacy screen is representative of YOU wanting peace. If you could see Northern empires diplomacy screen it would be a completely different value for them to offer peace.

@mexxico the true issue here is AI factions will not offer peace to kingdoms with the player in it. This makes it so if the player ever wants to get out of a war they have to take their peace tribute instead of the opposite sides tribute (which would be more advantageous for the the player since they aren't asking for peace).

Yes it seems you are right. Reason of this secondary condition (kingdom != Clan.PlayerClan.Kingdom) can be there is only one voting in each agreement. If we remove that condition player will suddenly see kingdoms made peace without voting. Because they accepted amount your kingdom want. This amount is determined automatically. We do not have a system both sides are voting. For example if you are vassal of Khuzait and if you want to make peace with Aserai you see how many denars they want daily (this number is advantegous number for Aserai compared to their situation of course). When you click peace button at diplomacy tab your kingdom vote accepting this payment or not however they do not make a voting for determining that amount. We can remove this secondary condition for at least player is vassal situation. I need to ask team.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

We can remove this secondary condition for at least player is vassal situation. I need to ask team.

Thanks mex, that would be a good first step.

I do think it is essential you guys develop a system for when the player is a faction king (accept or decline peace offer) because it makes it too easy to kill kingdoms as the player when they won't tap out and offer peace. But I understand that would be heavy lift and take some time

 

[Rycon Caldestan]

Yes it will be applied to player as well. I do not know how we inform player currently when one of his mercenaries leave. Is it stated at left bottom comments? If not it can be good adding some kind of information there.

Good to know. What if I am a player who joins as a mercenary to another kingdom and they can’t pay?

 

[Lord Drenth]

If in a kingdom no towns or castles left this means they have no tax income, 66% of income come from town / village taxes at game remaining is loot & tribute income. Maybe also they get paid by other kingdoms for peace and these numbers can be around 1000-2000 per day maximum. With these conditions they cannot hire mercenaries for long years. At some point king will not be able to pay mercenaries and they will left that kingdom. After that only king clan will be left in that kingdom probably other clans will leave them in several years and they will want less money for peace.

There was a bug and mercenaries were not leaving kingdom when they are not getting paid. It will be fixed with 1.5.8 maybe it helps.

Great feed back all. I will reply individually to each comment, and I appreciate you Mexxico for commenting.

The mercenaries leaving the defeated kingdoms over time is HUGE. That is breaking the mid-game for me right now because I can't possibly deal with 10+ mercenaries factions harassing me all over the place unless I make peace with their liege. In a way its kinds sneaky, and I could think of real life reasons for it to work as is, but for a game where I can only control the location of a single army it is almost bad enough to quit playing.

One other point to note - if you give a mercenary unit a fief, they do not return it when they leave you, nor do they give you notice they are leaving your employ. I risk severe penalty and war if I don't ask to be released or if I keep a fief when I leave. So I hired the merc unit back, took the fief back and then kicked them back out (lol).

 

[Lord Drenth]

@Lord Drenth so its kind of confusing at first, but what you see for the tributes on the diplomacy screen is representative of YOU wanting peace. If you could see Northern empires diplomacy screen it would be a completely different value for them to offer peace.

This makes good sense!