What we have in Bannerlord pre-release dev diaries but not in game by now

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The time it takes to release stuff doesn't really bother me, sure waiting sucks, but development isn't like math formulas.

What really bothers me is when we get an "explanation" that states a feature is not going to be implemented because it would make the game complex or harder, this is really an insult to our intelligence on the levels of Diablo 4's "We are going to change item stats to just attack and defense so the players can understand that an item is an upgrade". What are we? Zoo monkeys that go by all day throwing **** at people and being amused by the chaos we created?

How many times have we seen mexxico say something like "yeah, I will suggest this/try to change this but don't get your hopes up because it may be decided against"? This village management and possibility of upgrading to castles were his idea, he even said so, but someone decided to scrap it. But hey, at least we have someone on our corner trying to improve the game.

It starts with the small things, like troops not staying in formation while moving and clans not having their own color scheme and it piles up along the way so we get this snowball of frustration that picked up all the bad decisions made so far and becomes this huge feeling that the end product won't be good or that it won't be half of what it could be.

Sure this can change with each patch, and improvements were made, but even some of the stuff that was delivered is too shallow. Take rebellions, for example, they spiced up the campaign, it feels more alive, but there were good possibilities that were left unexplored, like independent clans staying as city-states after they succeeded and maybe even banding together to form a new faction, quests to incite rebellions and sub cultures that could look like Warband factions if a town rebelled against its own culture.

Just go the Nexus and sort by popular or most downloaded to see what the community really wants, it's all quality of life or more complex system mods like cultured starts (multiple initial starts), calradia at war (more immersion and spawn types, many more bandits and minor factions), bear my banner (banners in battle), realistic battles (improve armor effectiveness and make battles more tactical), party AI overhaul and commands (more control over your parties and making armies target bordering fiefs in war) etc etc etc

They do, mexxico said he was going to look at the party AI mod to give us more control over clan parties. They implemented the settlement icons thingy and there could be more that other people may have noticed.

The "Consider my Kingdom" would be a must have for me in future updates. What it does is allow clans to choose your kingdom when they want to defect, there is a version that they bring over a fief they have and one they don't, if they implement this I would prefer that they don't, unless it causes a war with the faction they were in, like a rebellion of sorts.
 
I mightfeel that way if I had any idea of what the finished state or near finished state would be
Armagan said "we could market it as finished if we wanted to do so" and "%80 of the time it will feel like a completed game" when they announced EA release date. I know these are cheap marketing tricks but if these are true by a chance, this current game is near completed in TWs eyes. But they aren't so move on
 
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If the EA goes on for longer i really hope TW has a change of heart and realize their fanbase wants more complex and "risky" things, Mexxico said he is happy with the game and it won't be a 95+ rating game but i'm absolutely sure it can be if TW dare to develop it with more passion and take risks, no complexity for complexity's sake but to make a good game become legendary.

I did not said I am happy with game overall, I try to be happy otherwise being always upset / worried reduces your effectiveness. Game has more potential of course and I accept game has missing features and cannot use its potential fully. I also said I prefer older design which has better village management (if that selection was chosed game could be a 95+% rating game but it was a risky design and need more / better workpower to implement. Also that design was mine why I prefer a new design? But one day that design is scrapped (we did this giving up / changing idea thing lots of time during early-mid development) and we moved on with new design. What can you do in this scenario as a dev? I have no control over these main decisions. So if you cannot change these main decisions (skeleton of game) what you can do is trying to make selected design as good as possible. Actually you can clearly see sometimes I am complaining about something like you but trying to improve game in given limits.

About console thing it is not my decision too but have to do some optimization and spend 1-2 weeks at January because it is also wanted and it is reasonable too. This game will be released at also consoles one day. Again underlying I prefer spending time on improving game until PC version is nearly finished. You should understand we are only doing what is decided mostly.
 
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About console thing it is not my decision too but have to do some optimization and spend 1-2 weeks at January because it is also wanted and it is understandable too this game will be released at also consoles one day again underlying I prefer spending time on improving game since PC version is nearly finished. You should understand we are only doing what is decided mostly.

This is very bad news indeed. If the PC version is almost finished and resources are being diverted to the consol port, our only hope is that mods will eventually provide the missing features and make the game what it was supposed to be.
 
This is very bad news indeed. If the PC version is almost finished and resources are being diverted to the consol port, our only hope is that mods will eventually provide the missing features and make the game what it was supposed to be.

I used wrong word "improving game since PC version is nearly finished" should be "improving game until PC version is nearly finished" so game is not finished of course and we will continue developing game. It's only 2 weeks I need to spend for console optimization and other devs are in similar condition too. Most devs are still working on PC version.
 
I have no control over these main decisions
I think many people are aware of this - or at least they should. I know there are some out there who are blaming devs for decisions but at the end, it's not devs that are taking those decisions.
However, I would like to ask, what if there is something that majority of players support - like this upgrade feature? Would that then get considered by responsible people even though its discarded before? Is there any known example of that? I'm asking this because if TW is leaving things as "never look back" or "do what we decided, feature cutoff from now on" then there is literally no point of discussing these things and making suggestions. And since you are saying PC version is nearly finished, I think that feature suggestion ship is already sailed away.
 
I'll try my hardest to find how many units it sold on consoles after 1 year of its console release. Anyone wanna bet how high it's going to be? or, in this case how low it's going to be? Again, I think TW overestimates the console market.
I think that feature suggestion ship is already sailed away.
was there a suggestion ship in the first place?
 
I think many people are aware of this - or at least they should. I know there are some out there who are blaming devs for decisions but at the end, it's not devs that are taking those decisions.
However, I would like to ask, what if there is something that majority of players support - like this upgrade feature? Would that then get considered by responsible people even though its discarded before? Is there any known example of that? I'm asking this because if TW is leaving things as "never look back" or "do what we decided, feature cutoff from now on" then there is literally no point of discussing these things and making suggestions. And since you are saying PC version is nearly finished, I think that feature suggestion ship is already sailed away.

I will try to make a proper design something like increasing number of projects especially new projects effecting bounded villages (fe. saving them to be raided consequently) - it should be easy to implement to get approved - for making things better for villages / castles and go with that suggestion. We can discuss it in forum too. Then we will see what will be happened.
 
I sincerely thank you for your sincerity; it was predictable that Bannerlord is almost finished in the current state.
read this and relax mate
I used wrong word "improving game since PC version is nearly finished" should be "improving game until PC version is nearly finished" so game is not finished of course and we will continue developing game. It's only 2 weeks I need to spend for console optimization and other devs are in similar condition too. Most devs are still working on PC version.
 
You should understand we are only doing what is decided mostly.

Thanks again for the reply man, love your work and passion for this game.

I absolutely understand this, that's why i was saying that i hope Taleworlds itself (the upper management) changes heart to allow to devs like you to really make the game shine as it deserves.

Just want to say that everyone on earth except your bosses also preferred your 4-slot design, it would make the game much better and villages much more useful but alas nothing we can do about that right? i'm always around the forums sharing feedback because i truly love this game just like i loved classic/warband and want to see it improved even further :grin:
 
Thanks again for the reply man, love your work and passion for this game.

I absolutely understand this, that's why i was saying that i hope Taleworlds itself (the upper management) changes heart to allow to devs like you to really make the game shine as it deserves.

Just want to say that everyone on earth except your bosses also preferred your 4-slot design, it would make the game much better and villages much more useful but alas nothing we can do about that right? i'm always around the forums sharing feedback because i truly love this game just like i loved classic/warband and want to see it improved even further :grin:

That design was basic of game. It changed lots of time ago and remaining game build over a totally different design. So it is impossible to return something like this now. So we will try to make current design better now. By the way until a design is implemented anyone cannot know which one is better. So maybe our current design is right choice I cannot be sure. I am just saying I prefer older one. Maybe if we ask everyone which one you prefer result can be 90% older design but this also do not prove anything. Because voters did not played both versions we are only guessing what can happen. To be sure which is better only way is playing both designs. Anyway lets give up being pessimist and try to make current design better.
 
I will try to make a proper design (it should be easy to implement to get approved) for making things better for villages / castles and go with that suggestion. We can discuss it in forum too. Then we will see what will be happened.
I think that's a great idea. I'm also sure that many will support that since nearly everyone is asking for improvements in the game - as long as it's possible ofc.
And It might be too much perhaps but I think it would be better to get player-base's opinion about new features that have been under planning before development. I'm not sure if there are any plans for future that hasn't been disclosed with players but if there are any, revealing them in Forum can increase the effectiveness of the idea because there are a lot of creative and realistic people in this forum that can suggest more improvements on base-ideas. This is more like a general suggestion on features though, perhaps it should require @Dejan 's involvement if it sounds feasible. Because I'm sure a lot of people, including me, is wondering which tricks TW has on its pocket for this game. I'm talking about new features - not bug fixes or sheep textures ( I kinda consider snowballing fix as a bug fix too even though it's visibly harder than many of other bugs )


was there a suggestion ship in the first place?
Any time between Warband and Bannerlord was a suggestion ship actually. But TW is playing safe ( that's understandable ) because they only included new features that were proven to be fun in Warband mods. So successful mods were kind of a PoC for them ( Proof of Concept)
 
[...] Anyway lets give up being pessimist and try to make current design better.
+10
That's the spirit :party:

I think that's a great idea. I'm also sure that many will support that since nearly everyone is asking for improvements in the game - as long as it's possible ofc.
And It might be too much perhaps but I think it would be better to get player-base's opinion about new features that have been under planning before development. I'm not sure if there are any plans for future that hasn't been disclosed with players but if there are any, revealing them in Forum can increase the effectiveness of the idea because there are a lot of creative and realistic people in this forum that can suggest more improvements on base-ideas. This is more like a general suggestion on features though, perhaps it should require @Dejan 's involvement if it sounds feasible. Because I'm sure a lot of people, including me, is wondering which tricks TW has on its pocket for this game. I'm talking about new features - not bug fixes or sheep textures ( I kinda consider snowballing fix as a bug fix too even though it's visibly harder than many of other bugs )

Any time between Warband and Bannerlord was a suggestion ship actually. But TW is playing safe ( that's understandable ) because they only included new features that were proven to be fun in Warband mods. So successful mods were kind of a PoC for them ( Proof of Concept)

Absolutely 100% agree
 
I think that's a great idea. I'm also sure that many will support that since nearly everyone is asking for improvements in the game - as long as it's possible ofc.
And It might be too much perhaps but I think it would be better to get player-base's opinion about new features that have been under planning before development. I'm not sure if there are any plans for future that hasn't been disclosed with players but if there are any, revealing them in Forum can increase the effectiveness of the idea because there are a lot of creative and realistic people in this forum that can suggest more improvements on base-ideas. This is more like a general suggestion on features though, perhaps it should require @Dejan 's involvement if it sounds feasible. Because I'm sure a lot of people, including me, is wondering which tricks TW has on its pocket for this game. I'm talking about new features - not bug fixes or sheep textures ( I kinda consider snowballing fix as a bug fix too even though it's visibly harder than many of other bugs )
fully agreed, not to mention it'll probably revive the game (it's not dead yet but you get it) . People will tend to test the features they helped.
Any time between Warband and Bannerlord was a suggestion ship actually. But TW is playing safe ( that's understandable ) because they only included new features that were proven to be fun in Warband mods. So successful mods were kind of a PoC for them ( Proof of Concept)
ah okay, between warband and bannerlord I was only active in Warband forums so I don't know lol, thanks.
 
mexxico's design would have been great but I do like the way it is now with the villages being bound settlements. Upgrading them to castles would be too much but I don't see why they can't still have building slots and even the possibility of building some sort of simpler fortification around them - I suppose that would mean creating a lot of new scenes.
 
I think many people are aware of this - or at least they should. I know there are some out there who are blaming devs for decisions but at the end, it's not devs that are taking those decisions.

Well i think we are also using "Dev" or "Game Developer" in its generic sense as we do not know official designated titles at TaleWorlds Corporate. Perhaps Head Developer, Project Lead, or Community Manager works better but really they should get the gist of who we are appealing to.
 
I understand what you mean, I'm just saying it's not the developers who should explain that to you. It's community managers. Even they don't need to explain anything tho - to be fair. Bannerlord sold quite well with all the doubt clouds over its head. Everyone laughed when they said it will be out of EA after one year but still, the game sold well. So the public really doesn't think as deep as you think. If they say "That's it. Here, rebellions, and we are out of EA" - only core players will get outraged. Rest already have no idea what this game is all about.

Sure they dont have to -by law -explain anything but it would be a huge violation of trust and credibility with its core fans as well as strategy game fans if they simply never addressed all of these features being shown thru blogs all this time. Sure they would still get a one time cash grab by the mindless Steam horde but they would have also exhausted their capital of Good Faith for any future titles and I doubt the Steam horde would come around for a 2nd time as even the simple folk can detect on a very surface level when something is shallow and incomplete -they simply shrug and never look back. We diehards remember
 
Well i think we are also using "Dev" or "Game Developer" in its generic sense as we do not know official designated titles at TaleWorlds Corporate. Perhaps Head Developer, Project Lead, or Community Manager works better but really they should get the gist of who we are appealing to.
Project Lead, Head Developer isn't responsible with public communication either. Problem is, there are some people who are directing their insults and rage against to Devs directly. These cases are even more serious for some other companies ( see this for Cyberpunk Case ) What mexxico and other devs are doing is quite remarkable actually. They literally have no reason to be there. Even for bug reports. They already have a system where they get bug reports from Community Support guys. You don't have to know corpo structure - that's why I'm trying to correct what you said to avoid any nutbrain to understand it as if it's devs responsibility to communicate and get outraged ( again to be clear, I'm not talking about you )
Sure they dont have to -by law -explain anything but it would be a huge violation of trust and credibility with its core fans as well as strategy game fans if they simply never addressed all of these features being shown thru blogs all this time.
Eh not quite. Because it's not like they promised all these and then just came up with he current game. They made Dev Blogs about these features, yes, but they also announced that they dropped some of them. So it's the user's responsibility to check what he is buying. In theory, if they are fulfilling what they are promising on Steam page, then they are fulfilling what they promised.
For missing features that are not announced to be `dropped` but still in Dev Blogs, you have right to ask where they are. And answer will probably be "We are working on it". But for upgrade thingy, for example, they literally said that's discarded before EA.
 
Project Lead, Head Developer isn't responsible with public communication either. Problem is, there are some people who are directing their insults and rage against to Devs directly. These cases are even more serious for some other companies ( see this for Cyberpunk Case ) What mexxico and other devs are doing is quite remarkable actually. They literally have no reason to be there. Even for bug reports. They already have a system where they get bug reports from Community Support guys. You don't have to know corpo structure - that's why I'm trying to correct what you said to avoid any nutbrain to understand it as if it's devs responsibility to communicate and get outraged ( again to be clear, I'm not talking about you )

Seriously again with the semantics? Ok -here we go -whomever they designate to convey information to the community -have them answer. Ok? Good. BTW its not uncommon for it to be Developers doing the good and bad news breaking to community -in Arma forums it has always been the developers -the actual programmers who relay all technical plans and dropped plans to the community. So its not like what im asking is outside the norm. And here we have Mexxico doing it -so again.

Eh not quite. Because it's not like they promised all these and then just came up with he current game. They made Dev Blogs about these features, yes, but they also announced that they dropped some of them. So it's the user's responsibility to check what he is buying. In theory, if they are fulfilling what they are promising on Steam page, then they are fulfilling what they promised.
For missing features that are not announced to be `dropped` but still in Dev Blogs, you have right to ask where they are. And answer will probably be "We are working on it". But for upgrade thingy, for example, they literally said that's discarded before EA.

Well again these are legalese word choice "its not like they promised or pinky sweared"....the choice to do dev blogs in the 1st place is for one reason -to keep interest with the long awaiting customer who have been awaiting a sequel for their favorite game. They arent doing it cause they are bored and want to chat with the public -again it is to retain a business interest in the features of the game. So it is in a very real sense a trust and credibility issue - one in which one shouldnt have to read the fine print in Steam store page to determine if maybe their long awaited feature is implemented or not. Remember -Steam Store page does not reveal all the intricacies especially of a world strategy game so really there would be no way to know something was excluded. On top of that if they havent mention it was being omitted - that fan again on good faith would most likely determine "they are working on it".

Its not hard to let the public know and its a conscious choice to avoid communicating it to your public. I applaud them for doing that for that 1 upgrade feature -now what about the rest as stated on page 1..

Now you can lawyer argue up all you want for them -but what i am asking is a simple good faith measure -something lawyers know little about
 
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