Information about developments at snowballing problem

[GrandiousBrain]

I need to implement micromanagement of clan parties and policy selection AI (which is 0 currently) and campaign AI optimization for consoles. I have too many things to do now. So I will skip this problem. Its minor. When I see copy-paste text just wanted to answer that question asked 45 days ago.

Off Topic.

In my uneducated opinion i would rather Devs FOCUS be SOLY on PC version of the game then once the PC version is fully finished/golden then start to slowly shift on doing Console version or maybe even post full realease you start to pay more focus on Console version.By the way i see it you are way to overstreched and you shouldve from beggining focus only on ONE platform then when version for one platform is almost finished/compleated THEN go and focus on another platform/version of he game.Doing everyting at same time is 100x worse than doing 3 things for one specific version/platform.

7 days to die devs also have SAME PROBLEM.Oriiginaly they stated for years how they were only PC and will consider doing console once PC version of the game is finished.Then after being constanty attacked and overtime TOXIC Console players demanded,trashed,spread lies and missinformation about the game 7DTD devs BENT THE KNEE and went out of their way and hired someone else to do port fo Console verison and by doing that destroying their original principle of being PC only then post launch do Consoles.And what that brought them NOTHING BUT MISERY AND MORE HATE.What ended happening is SAME CONSOLE players started trashing,attacking devs saying they are scammers and started spreading lies,missinforamtions and saying to people to not but the game (wich ended many dont buyig it and also otehrs including some youtubers ended putting scam game into their title and commentary) bcs its a scam all bcs they didnt get proper port for Consoles wich they demnaded to get even thou devs from beggining stated they doing PC only but bend the knee and BY DOING THAT ENDED SHOOTING THEMSELF IN THE FOOT BIG TIME!!!

From MY PERSONAL OBSERVATION TW ALSO shoot itself in the foot.If i remmember correctly ORIGINALY when it came to MOD TOOLS was that post game Launch you will then work on mod tools bcs it woudl be much faster that way yet after many preassures and attacks from community TW bend the knee and released botched limited version of Mod Tools that at beggining same people that demanded it ended up scrutinizing and attacking saying how MD broken.Then Multiplayer also if i remmeber correctly was said to be something eighter at later date or post launch thing then yet again people demanded demanded demanded and TW ended streaching yet again and started doing work for multiplayer wich yet again BACKFIREDE SO HARD and all you get is constant complaints and attacks.

For some things devs shouldve STAY TRUE TO THEIR ORIGINAL PLANS and just go with it and not overstreching themself so thin ESPECIALY FOR THE GAME HUGE AS BANNERLORD and trying to do way to much and in end proces endiing in shelving,scraping,abandoning,oversimplifying stuff just to save time.

 

[Shun]

have you tried joining an army? this was in the early access from the beginning.

and lords already seek defensive positions on the map.

the thing that isn't yet in the game is personalities affecting commands.

I would have sworn Raganvad has the "most useless commander in the game" personality.

 

[mexxico]

Off Topic.

In my uneducated opinion i would rather Devs FOCUS be SOLY on PC version of the game then once the PC version is fully finished/golden then start to slowly shift on doing Console version or maybe even post full realease you start to pay more focus on Console version.By the way i see it you are way to overstreched and you shouldve from beggining focus only on ONE platform then when version for one platform is almost finished/compleated THEN go and focus on another platform/version of he game.Doing everyting at same time is 100x worse than doing 3 things for one specific version/platform.

7 days to die devs also have SAME PROBLEM.Oriiginaly they stated for years how they were only PC and will consider doing console once PC version of the game is finished.Then after being constanty attacked and overtime TOXIC Console players demanded,trashed,spread lies and missinformation about the game 7DTD devs BENT THE KNEE and went out of their way and hired someone else to do port fo Console verison and by doing that destroying their original principle of being PC only then post launch do Consoles.And what that brought them NOTHING BUT MISERY AND MORE HATE.What ended happening is SAME CONSOLE players started trashing,attacking devs saying they are scammers and started spreading lies,missinforamtions and saying to people to not but the game (wich ended many dont buyig it and also otehrs including some youtubers ended putting scam game into their title and commentary) bcs its a scam all bcs they didnt get proper port for Consoles wich they demnaded to get even thou devs from beggining stated they doing PC only but bend the knee and BY DOING THAT ENDED SHOOTING THEMSELF IN THE FOOT BIG TIME!!!

From MY PERSONAL OBSERVATION TW ALSO shoot itself in the foot.If i remmember correctly ORIGINALY when it came to MOD TOOLS was that post game Launch you will then work on mod tools bcs it woudl be much faster that way yet after many preassures and attacks from community TW bend the knee and released botched limited version of Mod Tools that at beggining same people that demanded it ended up scrutinizing and attacking saying how MD broken.Then Multiplayer also if i remmeber correctly was said to be something eighter at later date or post launch thing then yet again people demanded demanded demanded and TW ended streaching yet again and started doing work for multiplayer wich yet again BACKFIREDE SO HARD and all you get is constant complaints and attacks.

For some things devs shouldve STAY TRUE TO THEIR ORIGINAL PLANS and just go with it and not overstreching themself so thin ESPECIALY FOR THE GAME HUGE AS BANNERLORD and trying to do way to much and in end proces endiing in shelving,scraping,abandoning,oversimplifying stuff just to save time.

Of topic :
It become so hard reading texts when they contain small letters and big letters all mixed. Sorry to underline this but take it as an advice.

I am not fan of spending time for console works. They want me to make optimization at these campaign ai codes since summer. I always delayed it to make single player at PC better first. But it seems I cannot run away from this anymore.

 

[Shun]

Of topic :
It become so hard reading texts when they contain small letters and big letters all mixed. Sorry to underline this but take it as an advice.

I am not fan of spending time for console works. They want me to make optimization at these campaign ai codes since summer. I always delayed it to make single player at PC better first. But it seems I cannot run away from this anymore.

That must be the nerf to cavalry speed on campaign map coming back to bite you No more running away

I appreciate your continued effort to make the game better and your striving for transparency.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

I am not fan of spending time for console works. They want me to make optimization at these campaign ai codes since summer. I always delayed it to make single player at PC better first. But it seems I cannot run away from this anymore.

Spoiler: "Mex working on console optimization" circa 2021

 

[Worlok]

Off Topic.

In my uneducated opinion i would rather Devs FOCUS be SOLY on PC version of the game then once the PC version is fully finished/golden then start to slowly shift on doing Console version or maybe even post full realease you start to pay more focus on Console version.By the way i see it you are way to overstreched and you shouldve from beggining focus only on ONE platform then when version for one platform is almost finished/compleated THEN go and focus on another platform/version of he game.Doing everyting at same time is 100x worse than doing 3 things for one specific version/platform.

7 days to die devs also have SAME PROBLEM.Oriiginaly they stated for years how they were only PC and will consider doing console once PC version of the game is finished.Then after being constanty attacked and overtime TOXIC Console players demanded,trashed,spread lies and missinformation about the game 7DTD devs BENT THE KNEE and went out of their way and hired someone else to do port fo Console verison and by doing that destroying their original principle of being PC only then post launch do Consoles.And what that brought them NOTHING BUT MISERY AND MORE HATE.What ended happening is SAME CONSOLE players started trashing,attacking devs saying they are scammers and started spreading lies,missinforamtions and saying to people to not but the game (wich ended many dont buyig it and also otehrs including some youtubers ended putting scam game into their title and commentary) bcs its a scam all bcs they didnt get proper port for Consoles wich they demnaded to get even thou devs from beggining stated they doing PC only but bend the knee and BY DOING THAT ENDED SHOOTING THEMSELF IN THE FOOT BIG TIME!!!

From MY PERSONAL OBSERVATION TW ALSO shoot itself in the foot.If i remmember correctly ORIGINALY when it came to MOD TOOLS was that post game Launch you will then work on mod tools bcs it woudl be much faster that way yet after many preassures and attacks from community TW bend the knee and released botched limited version of Mod Tools that at beggining same people that demanded it ended up scrutinizing and attacking saying how MD broken.Then Multiplayer also if i remmeber correctly was said to be something eighter at later date or post launch thing then yet again people demanded demanded demanded and TW ended streaching yet again and started doing work for multiplayer wich yet again BACKFIREDE SO HARD and all you get is constant complaints and attacks.

For some things devs shouldve STAY TRUE TO THEIR ORIGINAL PLANS and just go with it and not overstreching themself so thin ESPECIALY FOR THE GAME HUGE AS BANNERLORD and trying to do way to much and in end proces endiing in shelving,scraping,abandoning,oversimplifying stuff just to save time.

Consoles are destroying the gaming world. The first sign of it was the mess around the new command menu.
I have played many games both on PC and console and console gives poor gaming experience.
However I can understand the move from TW perspective. PC players have already bought the game. Console player base is more money. Yet, it's little unfair towards the PC userbase...

 

[sniparsexe]

Consoles are destroying the gaming world. The first sign of it was the mess around the new command menu.
I have played many games both on PC and console and console gives poor gaming experience.
However I can understand the move from TW perspective. PC players have already bought the game. Console player base is more money. Yet, it's little unfair towards the PC userbase...

how many units it's going to sell on consoles though? 200k thousand at most, maybe 300k? How many copies it's going to sell on PC? 3 million? 5 million? 7 million? I think it already passed 3million on PC (above 500k copies sold in China, the US was the main market for Warband it will be same for Bannerlord, so it's probably higher, we have Europe too) I think TW overestimates the console market. Console players (PS players to be precise) prefer singleplayer linear experiences more. They should continue to focus on PC

 

[GrandiousBrain]

Of topic :
It become so hard reading texts when they contain small letters and big letters all mixed. Sorry to underline this but take it as an advice.

I am not fan of spending time for console works. They want me to make optimization at these campaign ai codes since summer. I always delayed it to make single player at PC better first. But it seems I cannot run away from this anymore.

Sorry i just like to add big letters to specific thing as a way to point out things not native english so i cant properly convay it so i juts end up putting big letters.

Hope that consol part wont give you any more bigger problems and headaces than there alredy is.

From things i saw so far following the development and changes there seems to be alot of missmanaged stuff and also great ideas that community actualy wanted ending scrapped,removed,not considred/not aproved wich is a real bummer.

 

[Apocal]

Then Multiplayer also if i remmeber correctly was said to be something eighter at later date or post launch thing then yet again people demanded demanded demanded and TW ended streaching yet again and started doing work for multiplayer wich yet again BACKFIREDE SO HARD and all you get is constant complaints and attacks.

This did not happen, the MP beta was scheduled way earlier than the EA release and had been for quite awhile.

 

[Flesson19]

I am 900 days into my trader test and almost same thing happening, Khuzuit and Aserai starting to take over, only this time vlandia is taking out Battania but just like last game, 10 years in and the snowball starts

Spoiler

 

[lunelune2413]

I am 900 days into my trader test and almost same thing happening, Khuzuit and Aserai starting to take over, only this time vlandia is taking out Battania but just like last game, 10 years in and the snowball starts

Spoiler

1. Khuzaits are getting a nerf coming next patch to the beta branch of 1.5.6.
2. Some factions are bound to do well in their respective regions. To me it just sems like this particular game is gonna be Aserai, Vlandia and Khuzaits (And potentially Northern Empire/Sturgia if they conquer eachother) that's gonna be the last factions after a number of years.
3. Even when 1.5.6 comes out, snowballing MIGHT happen in a couple of games, but it shouldn't happen in every single game like it has done in the past and especially shouldn't just be 1-2 factions eating up their neighbors.
4. In the game I tested it took Batannia up to 1103 to basically destroy the Vlandians with a lot of back and forth. The Northern and Southern empires are somehow holding on as well as Sturgia making a small comeback against the Khuzaits.

 

[Flesson19]

1. Khuzaits are getting a nerf coming next patch to 1.5.6.
2. Some factions are bound to do well in their respective regions. To me it just sems like this particular game is gonna be Aserai, Vlandia and Khuzaits (And potentially Northern Empire/Sturgia if they conquer eachother) that's gonna be the last factions after a number of years.
3. Even when 1.5.6 comes out, snowballing MIGHT happen in a couple of games, but it shouldn't happen in every single game like it has done in the past and especially shouldn't just be 1-2 factions eating up their neighbors.
4. In the game I tested it took Batannia up to 1103 to basically destroy the Vlandians with a lot of back and forth. The Northern and Southern empires are somehow holding on as well as Sturgia making a small comeback against the Khuzaits.

Might want to edit the patches, I know what ya mean but other might not

 

[Fietta]

Off Topic.

In my uneducated opinion i would rather Devs FOCUS be SOLY on PC version of the game then once the PC version is fully finished/golden then start to slowly shift on doing Console version or maybe even post full realease you start to pay more focus on Console version.By the way i see it you are way to overstreched and you shouldve from beggining focus only on ONE platform then when version for one platform is almost finished/compleated THEN go and focus on another platform/version of he game.Doing everyting at same time is 100x worse than doing 3 things for one specific version/platform.

7 days to die devs also have SAME PROBLEM.Oriiginaly they stated for years how they were only PC and will consider doing console once PC version of the game is finished.Then after being constanty attacked and overtime TOXIC Console players demanded,trashed,spread lies and missinformation about the game 7DTD devs BENT THE KNEE and went out of their way and hired someone else to do port fo Console verison and by doing that destroying their original principle of being PC only then post launch do Consoles.And what that brought them NOTHING BUT MISERY AND MORE HATE.What ended happening is SAME CONSOLE players started trashing,attacking devs saying they are scammers and started spreading lies,missinforamtions and saying to people to not but the game (wich ended many dont buyig it and also otehrs including some youtubers ended putting scam game into their title and commentary) bcs its a scam all bcs they didnt get proper port for Consoles wich they demnaded to get even thou devs from beggining stated they doing PC only but bend the knee and BY DOING THAT ENDED SHOOTING THEMSELF IN THE FOOT BIG TIME!!!

From MY PERSONAL OBSERVATION TW ALSO shoot itself in the foot.If i remmember correctly ORIGINALY when it came to MOD TOOLS was that post game Launch you will then work on mod tools bcs it woudl be much faster that way yet after many preassures and attacks from community TW bend the knee and released botched limited version of Mod Tools that at beggining same people that demanded it ended up scrutinizing and attacking saying how MD broken.Then Multiplayer also if i remmeber correctly was said to be something eighter at later date or post launch thing then yet again people demanded demanded demanded and TW ended streaching yet again and started doing work for multiplayer wich yet again BACKFIREDE SO HARD and all you get is constant complaints and attacks.

For some things devs shouldve STAY TRUE TO THEIR ORIGINAL PLANS and just go with it and not overstreching themself so thin ESPECIALY FOR THE GAME HUGE AS BANNERLORD and trying to do way to much and in end proces endiing in shelving,scraping,abandoning,oversimplifying stuff just to save time.

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[Flesson19]

we got time and only first draft but can't wait till mexxico gets it to where when we load a new game you got no idea who will role over everyone. From what ive seen stugia and S/N empire are still bad, the west still seem to hold their own better. I really think sturgia troop tree needs help, their archers suck and some higher tiers need better gear, but their tree needs help bad

 

[Althix]

ve seen stugia and S/N empire are still bad

i have a current Sturgia PT running and even before i joined they managed to take one imperial city and one vlandian city. However on my Vlandia PT sturgia is more or less dead along with S and N empire with Aserai and Khuzait running rampart.

sometimes i feel it's like at the very start of the PT game flips a coin, heads Sturgia and Empire are doing more or less well and even good, tails - they got steamrolled into ketchup.

 

[Flesson19]

i have a current Sturgia PT running and even before i joined they managed to take one imperial city and one vlandian city. However on my Vlandia PT sturgia is more or less dead along with S and N empire with Aserai and Khuzait running rampart.

sometimes i feel it's like at the very start of the PT game flips a coin, heads Sturgia and Empire are doing more or less well and even good, tails - they got steamrolled into ketchup.

yes sir, exactly what I've seen in 2 runs now. first 5-10 years things are ok. but for me Bat and Vland bully each other
it's sturgia, the N and S empire get beat up. I am not 100% sure to say this, but I think what mexxico did would mostly have solved everything if we found ways to help the 3 losers a bit. One thing I did notice but need to examine more it appears all the Empires were are war with more people than other Kingdoms(maybe because there are in middle of map so wars are easier) but don't have hard evidence. Would love to see some small bonuses to the 3 losers and run some tests, I wish I could mod and make changes and test them to give mexxico options

 

[mexxico]

Update :

Hey Mexico
Can you make that Cavalry bonus only grant bonus map speed on plains /deserts and penalty in forests or maybe even in snow?
Same for Khuzait national perk that grant extra speed for global map parties. I am pretty sure that would affect global map balance.
Also just reminding that Sturgia speed on Snow bonus still not work.

1-I checked why Sturgia snow bonus is not working and found reason and fixed. Now Sturgia parties will take 10% speed bonus at snow and all factions will get 10% penalty at snow. Then Stugia will be neutralized it seems did not checked it.

2-Also checked why expensive equipment is not created at towns and fixed that too. As you see in screenshot you will find 100K+ items rarely in markets with 1.5.7, consuming of these items by town itself can be problematic i will check later.

3-As you see in screenshot now we have 40% cavalry bonus instead of 60%, but it seems there is a new bug which shows these multipication bonuses as addition (+40 instead of +x (where x is final speed x 0.4)) but calculation of final speed is right so its only visual bug, I reported it to team.

Spoiler: Screenshot

 

[Flesson19]

Update :



1-I checked why Sturgia snow bonus is not working and found reason and fixed. Now Sturgia parties will take 10% speed bonus at snow and all factions will get 10% penalty at snow. Then Stugia will be neutralized it seems did not checked it.

2-Also checked why expensive equipment is not created at towns and fixed that too. As you see in screenshot you will find 100K+ items rarely in markets with 1.5.7, consuming of these items by town itself can be problematic i will check later.

3-As you see in screenshot now we have 40% cavalry bonus instead of 60%, but it seems there is a new bug which make +40 instead of +x (where x is final speed x 0.4), I reported it to team.

Spoiler: Screenshot

Does that include noble bows and heavy exe axes?

 

[mexxico]

Does that include noble bows and heavy exe axes?

Yes. For all items it is fixed.

Here is also snowball score table for 1.5.4, 1.5.5, 1.5.6 including all latest added tests and correction from @sniparsexe. We have nearly 20 tests for 1.5.6 and enough. Thanks all. Latest snowball score for 1.5.6 is 60.4

Spoiler: Snowball score table, click on image to see it detailed after opening

 

[Flesson19]

Yes. For all items it is fixed.

Here is also snowball score table for 1.5.4, 1.5.5, 1.5.6 including all latest added tests and correction from @sniparsexe. We have nearly 20 tests for 1.5.6 and enough. Thanks all. Latest snowball score for 1.5.6 is 60.4

Spoiler: Snowball score table

Are you serious? Been out of the game for months and you walk in and fix it today?
Give this man a fricken raise