Ambushes Implemented...

[bestmods168]

Just revisited Gloria Sinica for the whole day and damn do they have the features. Ambushes are implemented. Is it that difficult to implement such features into bannerlord? Perhaps not.

-Enemy AI has limited field of view during missions
-Ambushes
-Traps
-Rank system
-Rescue and Pursuit
-etc.

---------------------
but, but, but...its EA here in BL.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

I tried it once but couldn't figure out how to make it in english. I don't read chinese so I refunded it.
Is there a way to make it in english now?

 

[bestmods168]

I tried it once but couldn't figure out how to make it in english. I don't read chinese so I refunded it.
Is there a way to make it in english now?

English is automatic right now. I think it got translated.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Okay but if I buy and download it AGAIN and load it up and it's all chinese still I'm going to post a non-offensive, polite message here telling you about

 

[froggyluv]

Just revisited Gloria Sinica for the whole day and damn do they have the features. Ambushes are implemented. Is it that difficult to implement such features into bannerlord? Perhaps not.

-Enemy AI has limited field of view during missions
-Ambushes
-Traps
-Rank system
-Rescue and Pursuit
-etc.

---------------------
but, but, but...its EA here in BL.

When you say enemy has limited view -you mean on the battle screens the AI no longer automatically know where each other are?

How do the ambushes work do you mean Army ambushes each other on the campaign map or the player getting ambushed in scenes?

Okay but if I buy and download it AGAIN and load it up and it's all chinese still I'm going to post a non-offensive, polite message here telling you about

Keep us posted im interested too but cant find much in english about it at all thats current

 

[danEN]

I've not heard one suggestion for an ambush mechanic that actually sounds enjoyable.

Can a single lords go into ambush stance? So you could be in a war and 20 parties are just standing around in ambush?
Maybe only armies can ambush, but then this isn't total war, you're going to have an army just sitting there in real time doing nothing? Sounds counter productive.

 

[Apocal]

Keep us posted im interested too but cant find much in english about it at all thats current

The list of special features is here.

https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/688470/manuals/Features_of_Han_Xiongnu.pdf?t=1604864801

 

[D0c1]

I've not heard one suggestion for an ambush mechanic that actually sounds enjoyable.

Can a single lords go into ambush stance? So you could be in a war and 20 parties are just standing around in ambush?
Maybe only armies can ambush, but then this isn't total war, you're going to have an army just sitting there in real time doing nothing? Sounds counter productive.

maybe do it like the clash of kings mod.
have the ambushed party spawn in the middle and the ambushing party split into 2-4 spawn locations around the ambushed one.
arrows will pepper them from all sides and do significant damage to them.
if one doesn't have many archers, hammer and anvil tactic is powerful too.

 

[geala]

I think the problem is less what happens during an ambush but when and how do ambushes happen on the campaign map (for Bannerlord, don't know the Chinese game).

I would more or less restrict it to armies or parties chasing other armies or parties, there should be a chance that the chasing army is lured into an ambush. Should be a random chance, maybe influenced by the Tactics and Leadership (and maybe Roguery) skills/traits of the army/party leaders.

The bigger the armies the less chance for an ambush should be, as it was very seldom that such things happened with lots of people involved (Lake Trasimene 217 BC comes to mind f.e.).

 

[danEN]

maybe do it like the clash of kings mod.
have the ambushed party spawn in the middle and the ambushing party split into 2-4 spawn locations around the ambushed one.
arrows will pepper them from all sides and do significant damage to them.
if one doesn't have many archers, hammer and anvil tactic is powerful too.

Yep what Geala said. The issue is not inside the battle it's outside of it.

I think the problem is less what happens during an ambush but when and how do ambushes happen on the campaign map (for Bannerlord, don't know the Chinese game).

 

[Julio-Claudian]

Yep what Geala said. The issue is not inside the battle it's outside of it.

It could be similar to Total War. Give parties a chance to negate the scouting skill of enemies and become undetectable. If a skilled enough party is stationary for a period on terrain that would be suitable for an ambush it could be possible for them to ambush enemy parties that pass within a certain radius. Base attack success or susceptibility on party size, scouting skill, cultural traits etc...

 

[froggyluv]

The list of special features is here.

https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/688470/manuals/Features_of_Han_Xiongnu.pdf?t=1604864801

Thanks i read that but didnt see any mention of the things i was asking about -its pretty vague except for individual missions which are explicit. Was hoping to get more info from an english speaking player with hands on experience

 

[Apocal]

Thanks i read that but didnt see any mention of the things i was asking about -its pretty vague except for individual missions which are explicit. Was hoping to get more info from a an english speaking player with hands on experience

Well, I last played it years ago but...

When you say enemy has limited view -you mean on the battle screens the AI no longer automatically know where each other are?

I'm not certain about battles -- the battle maps tend to be very large and open compared to WB -- but in the individual quest fights, the AI doesn't automatically know your position. I don't know how they managed that feat but I recall it working well enough.

 

[froggyluv]

Well, I last played it years ago but...



I'm not certain about battles -- the battle maps tend to be very large and open compared to WB -- but in the individual quest fights, the AI doesn't automatically know your position. I don't know how they managed that feat but I recall it working well enough.

Just a laymans guess but the scenes that was already possible in vanilla if you recall the "sneaking into rescue prisoner" mission -the guards didnt know you were there until alerted -im guessing its working off similar mechanic. Are there non-player intiated attacks in these scenes? Meaning your just strolling about town and some enemy just up and attacks you without RPG dialogue screen or anything?

 

[D0c1]

I think the problem is less what happens during an ambush but when and how do ambushes happen on the campaign map (for Bannerlord, don't know the Chinese game).

I would more or less restrict it to armies or parties chasing other armies or parties, there should be a chance that the chasing army is lured into an ambush. Should be a random chance, maybe influenced by the Tactics and Leadership (and maybe Roguery) skills/traits of the army/party leaders.

The bigger the armies the less chance for an ambush should be, as it was very seldom that such things happened with lots of people involved (Lake Trasimene 217 BC comes to mind f.e.).

Yep what Geala said. The issue is not inside the battle it's outside of it.

i haven't thought about that and i don't have any good ideas...
maybe make it one of the camping options?
and they can make a morale penalty for marching too long like in VC so you can see parties camping regularly so you'll let your gaurd down.

or they can make ambushes a bit more specific and only be deployable in forest terrain. the party will stay hidden but it must have no significant cavalry force (less than 5 horses) to be deplyed to simulate the inability to hide horse neighs. maybe even restrict herd and carrying capacity.

maybe make it sort of a combination of both. bring back the camp so one can leave the horses in it to be able to deploy an ambush. but camps like this can be found like bandit camps (when you're really close to them) and it can be looted like bandit camps by any party that comes across it.

 

[froggyluv]

Would be amazing if a third party dev or high level modder was able to transform the World map into an actual strategy map. That being -not Lords and caravans and bandits just buzzing all over the place -but every square inch being tiled out for various terrains, natural resources, preferable guarding spots for specific types of units -putting meaning into why every unit is in what area for what reason. roads for safety, outlands for finding resources but open exposes party to danger and ambush

 

[babelfisch]

I've not heard one suggestion for an ambush mechanic that actually sounds enjoyable.

Can a single lords go into ambush stance? So you could be in a war and 20 parties are just standing around in ambush?
Maybe only armies can ambush, but then this isn't total war, you're going to have an army just sitting there in real time doing nothing? Sounds counter productive.

It could work if your party has a better scout, as soon as you see the enemy marching towards your direction you can select to hide and try an ambush. Don't know how the AI would handle it though, and the scenario is very specific so maybe it would be wasted effort. And if the enemy party doesn't get close enough you just wasted your time sitting around.

Personally I think it would make more sense to have an advantage if you have a higher tactic skill and position your troops before battle.

 

[Lusitani 5th Empire]

It could be similar to Total War. Give parties a chance to negate the scouting skill of enemies and become undetectable. If a skilled enough party is stationary for a period on terrain that would be suitable for an ambush it could be possible for them to ambush enemy parties that pass within a certain radius. Base attack success or susceptibility on party size, scouting skill, cultural traits etc...

This.
Currently you can all spot enemies within a certain radius, I don't know if forests, terrain, type of party has any affect on the radius but it's not significant either way.
A good idea is creating more dynamism on spotting. Like @Julio-Claudian said, having chance of negating being spotted determined by skill, terrain... even when inside the normal spot radius.
Having spot radius for friendly troops being the highest; For neutral parties, medium radius; And for enemies, according to some skill on spotting and tactics of their party, a radius between the medium radius and a smaller radius.
As for ambushes, parties would require more skill or special skill to be able to evade the small spotting radius of the other army. Let's say if some party with the ambush ability manages to get inside that small spotting radius undetected, then they stay hidden as long as a "spotting threshold" is maintained by the attacker party.
In more practical terms lets say a blue army is passing through some trees, on the opposite way comes a red army, which as more skill in tactics, spotting and the ambush ability. As they come closer to each other the red army spots the blue army while going undetected and proceeds to follow and attack the blue army.

• Situation 1: While in the trees, the red army (being undetected) manages to close in and ambush the blue army.
• Situation 2: While in the trees, the red army remains undetected, but it's not fast enough to catch the blue army as he changed direction. The red army ends the chase still undetected.
• Situation 3: While in the trees, the red army fails to catch the blue army, but red is in his small spotting zone. As both of armies (red still undetected) exists out of that "tree zone" and enter an "open zone", the terrain advantage progressively fades as both get further away (red still undetected), until the threshold where the blue army is able spot red again. Now as the chase still continues, red is no longer able to ambush, as he is detected by the blue army. The red army still got very close and gets to attack as normal.

Note: The ambush ability is not the same as the ability of renaming undetected. Let's say with only just the ability of renaming undetected you could remain undetected, for example, inside a medium spotting range. The ambush ability would enable parties to get inside the small spotting range undetected and thus performing the ambush (in which, for example, could spawn the attacker in proper formation really close to a defender in a messy formation).

 

[froggyluv]

Okay but if I buy and download it AGAIN and load it up and it's all chinese still I'm going to post a non-offensive, polite message here telling you about

I just bought it -its all Chinese..
....

..........

Edit: After guessing thru chinese characters -found the English option - hehe. Pumped looks well crafted

 

[iha10512]

This.
Currently you can all spot enemies within a certain radius, I don't know if forests, terrain, type of party has any affect on the radius but it's not significant either way.
A good idea is creating more dynamism on spotting. Like @Julio-Claudian said, having chance of negating being spotted determined by skill, terrain... even when inside the normal spot radius.
Having spot radius for friendly troops being the highest; For neutral parties, medium radius; And for enemies, according to some skill on spotting and tactics of their party, a radius between the medium radius and a smaller radius.
As for ambushes, parties would require more skill or special skill to be able to evade the small spotting radius of the other army. Let's say if some party with the ambush ability manages to get inside that small spotting radius undetected, then they stay hidden as long as a "spotting threshold" is maintained by the attacker party.
In more practical terms lets say a blue army is passing through some trees, on the opposite way comes a red army, which as more skill in tactics, spotting and the ambush ability. As they come closer to each other the red army spots the blue army while going undetected and proceeds to follow and attack the blue army.

• Situation 1: While in the trees, the red army (being undetected) manages to close in and ambush the blue army.
• Situation 2: While in the trees, the red army remains undetected, but it's not fast enough to catch the blue army as he changed direction. The red army ends the chase still undetected.
• Situation 3: While in the trees, the red army fails to catch the blue army, but red is in his small spotting zone. As both of armies (red still undetected) exists out of that "tree zone" and enter an "open zone", the terrain advantage progressively fades as both get further away (red still undetected), until the threshold where the blue army is able spot red again. Now as the chase still continues, red is no longer able to ambush, as he is detected by the blue army. The red army still got very close and gets to attack as normal.

Note: The ambush ability is not the same as the ability of renaming undetected. Let's say with only just the ability of renaming undetected you could remain undetected, for example, inside a medium spotting range. The ambush ability would enable parties to get inside the small spotting range undetected and thus performing the ambush (in which, for example, could spawn the attacker in proper formation really close to a defender in a messy formation).

+1