Resolved Pack animal herd penalty

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Flesson19

Flesson19

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Ok I am not sure how much is actually a bug but wanted to be safe as I think some are more a suggestion.
First pack animal get penalty is insane. I logged on to find a -3.12 penalty, I calculated penalty around .0065 so around 200 or so pack animal is -1.0 speed, I think that is a bit high, I am not sure if that was intended but if so I can comprehend the huge increase at one time to the penalty, that is a massive jump and can't figure who would allow that
Which brings me to my second point, after doing the math it appears the mules are giving virtually no her penalty at all. I thought of keeping quiet as I fear they will just nerf mules as bad as the rest and be done with it, but I am hoping that the massive penalty was just an oversight and being kind letting you know that mules are not really counting for any penalty, I put almost 100 on me and there was nothing, but old work horses or sumpter and bam massive penalty.
 
Flesson19 said:
Ok I am not sure how much is actually a bug but wanted to be safe as I think some are more a suggestion.
First pack animal get penalty is insane. I logged on to find a -3.12 penalty, I calculated penalty around .0065 so around 200 or so pack animal is -1.0 speed, I think that is a bit high, I am not sure if that was intended but if so I can comprehend the huge increase at one time to the penalty, that is a massive jump and can't figure who would allow that
Which brings me to my second point, after doing the math it appears the mules are giving virtually no her penalty at all. I thought of keeping quiet as I fear they will just nerf mules as bad as the rest and be done with it, but I am hoping that the massive penalty was just an oversight and being kind letting you know that mules are not really counting for any penalty, I put almost 100 on me and there was nothing, but old work horses or sumpter and bam massive penalty.
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How many troops do you use for the 200 pack animals? IMHO the old work horses should give a higher penalty than mules or sumpter horses. And maybe it is intended that mules have a lower penalty. What is otherwise the difference between mules and sumpter horses?
 
I think I had about 230 and not sure hat is intended since there wasn't an explanation so figured id get the ball rolling, was just shocked to move 5.4 in 1.5.3 then after going to 1.5.4. I was originally going 1.3
 
Flesson19 said:
I think I had about 230 and not sure hat is intended since there wasn't an explanation so figured id get the ball rolling, was just shocked to move 5.4 in 1.5.3 then after going to 1.5.4. I was originally going 1.3
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AFAIK foot troops can handle two horses (either pack or normal) and cavalry can handle one horse. Maybe this helps.
 
I can confirm that the herd penalty has become much larger moving from 1.5.3 to 1.5.4. We should make sure that this is not a bug.

If it is not a bug, then we should make a post in the suggestion forum to tone it down a bit. Maybe somewhere between 1.5.3 and 1.5.4. It's hard to say because there isn't a skill connected to "herding" so we have to decide that our troops are cowboys or not.
 
Krozzy said:
I can confirm that the herd penalty has become much larger moving from 1.5.3 to 1.5.4. We should make sure that this is not a bug.

If it is not a bug, then we should make a post in the suggestion forum to tone it down a bit. Maybe somewhere between 1.5.3 and 1.5.4. It's hard to say because there isn't a skill connected to "herding" so we have to decide that our troops are cowboys or not.
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yxvg.png

All my companions and my soldiers have horses... No herd except horses and -3.92!!
 
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It seems logical to me. I don't understand why you are all running around with 700+ horses. It's unnecessary and unrealistic for the sizes of our armies. Think about it as you have so many animals with you, it takes time to get them organized and moving in the same direction without them running off because you don't have enough people to watch or take care of them. It's not like they are people you can just tell to walk in a certain direction.

I actually wouldn't mind if they put in a system that made your horses(and other animals) run away if you had more than your army could handle, similar to being over your party/prisoner limit. I also think you should have to feed them grain, possibly with a -50% food required well moving on plains.
 
Smith091 said:
It seems logical to me. I don't understand why you are all running around with 700+ horses. It's unnecessary and unrealistic for the sizes of our armies. Think about it as you have so many animals with you, it takes time to get them organized and moving in the same direction without them running off because you don't have enough people to watch or take care of them. It's not like they are people you can just tell to walk in a certain direction.

I actually wouldn't mind if they put in a system that made your horses(and other animals) run away if you had more than your army could handle, similar to being over your party/prisoner limit. I also think you should have to feed them grain, possibly with a -50% food required well moving on plains.
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Interesting ideas. If think it'll be a balancing act to get the amount of grain needed for the horses just right and the game will need more grain as a result.

I saw a post from someone complaining about the game slowing down when they have over 65k cargo and I'm like "how many cities worth of cargo is that?" Something had to be done for sure. I've never gone over 20k myself and that was feeding me and eight other clans in the army.
 
MArdA TaleWorlds said:
I've been informed that this change is intended and not a bug. The herd penalty is changed from 0.02 to 0.2.
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I am not sure what exactly that means, considering a sumpter or old work horse gives about .005 penalty per horse. And a mule is actually 'LESS' than that I am assuming because of weight. so how does 0.02 to 0.2 make any sense. .2 for what, .2 per horse above the party size, we don't get the formula and would like to know.
But trying to figure out how that big of an increase which essentially kills trader since you can't really make much money without a big pack size but no one wants to travel 2 whole map speed to do it.
So would to know from the team what exactly is the formula and a why make a massive change "nerf" not "balance" that will eliminate a role int he game you've designed a skill tree and entire culture for?
 
Flesson19 said:
I am not sure what exactly that means, considering a sumpter or old work horse gives about .005 penalty per horse. And a mule is actually 'LESS' than that I am assuming because of weight. so how does 0.02 to 0.2 make any sense. .2 for what, .2 per horse above the party size, we don't get the formula and would like to know.
But trying to figure out how that big of an increase which essentially kills trader since you can't really make much money without a big pack size but no one wants to travel 2 whole map speed to do it.
So would to know from the team what exactly is the formula and a why make a massive change "nerf" not "balance" that will eliminate a role int he game you've designed a skill tree and entire culture for?
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this will make Trade skill slower to train. 0.02 to 0.2 is tenth times. i think 0.02 to 0.05 or 0.1 is fine
 
RJ_Sera said:
this will make Trade skill slower to train. 0.02 to 0.2 is tenth times. i think 0.02 to 0.05 or 0.1 is fine
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when I looked at my horses, I was losing .005 per 1, so 100 is .5 loss, now I will say that is not terrible, however to put the herd reduction perk in riding and not trade is a mistake, getting 175 riding for a trader is crazy since they give virtually nothing on the campaign map. the herd perk is essential for traders. I did a play through and dealing with more than half selling horses, not trade goods it took me 1,000 days to get 278. now if you don't deal in horse because of penalty and you cant carry as much now how long will it take to get 300 for everything has a price, 2000 days or more, that is a bit excessive just to be able to buy fiefs and start your kingdom. So you hit traders once with perk moving and a second time with herd penalty all together. When put together its a disaster for trader builds.
If they were going to do those why not make a simple solution, a perk with a 25% reduction in the trade tree and cut the riding perk from 50% to 25% or give the Aserai culture a 25% herd reduction instead of the barter penalty. A trader Aserai has the same skill at running packs of caravans that an Empire culture does, it makes no sense.
 
Flesson19 said:
when I looked at my horses, I was losing .005 per 1, so 100 is .5 loss, now I will say that is not terrible, however to put the herd reduction perk in riding and not trade is a mistake, getting 175 riding for a trader is crazy since they give virtually nothing on the campaign map. the herd perk is essential for traders. I did a play through and dealing with more than half selling horses, not trade goods it took me 1,000 days to get 278. now if you don't deal in horse because of penalty and you cant carry as much now how long will it take to get 300 for everything has a price, 2000 days or more, that is a bit excessive just to be able to buy fiefs and start your kingdom. So you hit traders once with perk moving and a second time with herd penalty all together. When put together its a disaster for trader builds.
If they were going to do those why not make a simple solution, a perk with a 25% reduction in the trade tree and cut the riding perk from 50% to 25% or give the Aserai culture a 25% herd reduction instead of the barter penalty. A trader Aserai has the same skill at running packs of caravans that an Empire culture does, it makes no sense.
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1. I think Trading fiefs should be available and trade skill just to make it cheaper, high trade skill does not make sense. I think most of us playing as Jack of all trade, meaning a little on everything. 225 trade skill is so high to get
2.Skill progress is very very slow i must say, i used a trick to train them.By trigger the battle between looters and big army then using blunt arrow to shoot them all, i reached 200 riding - bow - 100 athletic in the first day of my campaing ( battanian and aserai army work best, u can pick up noble bow to train faster)
3.Herd penalty is now high in my opinion, but not too high for me because the only thing make me sad is Arwa noble bow and mamluk cav armor. But yeah, herd penalty is now not good for trader players
4.I was playing as merchant and sell only for other caravans,their price does not change, it made my trade skill goes up faster. u should try this way while waiting(hoping) they will change it :grin:
 
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