Will do.
How would you recommend we go about this? Do you think we should create some kind of forum post (there may be already, sorry for my incompetence) to try to get their attention?
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Will do.
Agree on a lot of bridge said, Kingdoms should be an improved version of PW. But the mod as a whole should still feel the same way as PW. It's walking on unstable ground, but too much focus on one thing might make the module not feel like PW, which in general was a bit of everything.
I agree to some extent. We ought to keep the spirit, but if there is a way to improve upon it with the new functions in Bannerlord, as well as the improved hardware that Bannerlord runs on, I think that we ought to take it and run with it. If things can be made bigger and better, I don't think we should stop improving.
I honestly don't think that there is anything that can be done at the moment. It's just frustrating now that the Modding Kit is released and you see all these fancy maps, but one can't really do anything on the gameplay side other than playing around with some small scripts.
I just don't get how TW is fine with hosting their Native Module as MP but is unwilling to deliver the server executables to the public at this point. I fully understand if it's unstable or even insecure, but they could at least release it in a way so you can host a server locally on your own machine which does not show up in the official server list. That way you can fully develop mp mods while if there are any security, stabillity etc.-issues no one is affected by that.
So at this point I actually hope that it's unwillingness to release rather than Multiplayer being in a really bad state, if it takes another half to full year for this to be delivered we might as well write our own PW standalone game.
For me the transparency is missing on that topic. I've yet to find something related to what's the state of self hosted servers. I don't even need a release date, just a "this and that is not working at the moment so we cannot release it right now".
Please just don't try to reinvent the wheel. PW was already very fun as it was. NA suffers from less player population but on Phoenix or any other big EU server we've played on it was always fun having villages be neutral and then siding with a faction they like more. For example completely banning Lannister or Lorraines out of a certain village so they can't go there to restock after a failed push.
Cav was also fine as it is and please don't touch it. Heavy horses are for sieges and light horses are for skirmishing and ganking.
Everything mentioned here is unnecessary and quite frankly could potentialy hurt the mod as much as it could help it.
The thing is that not adding anything to PW isn't a solution either. Ideas like NPC's and some complicated economic mechanics are bad, but it would be a complete waste to not use the bannerlord engine to the fullest.
In the end there are a lot of things that we won't know if it would make the game better or worse. Because the way it's implemented will be the deciding factor.
I agree. Below I'll list my reasons why I think the suggestions are stupid and why they should largely be ignored.
The cav rework suggested is already implemented. The system we already had in PW/PK did what is mentioned, but instead of chargers we had plated chargers that were extremely valuable. Everybody that plays cav will mostly be trained to the best cav class (the most expensive one) and there is no reason to limit a knight to just chargers, they should be able to ride both light and heavy horses, like they have been able to up to now.
The villages idea should not be implemented. There is a reason castles had one spawn. If you were sieging you still had to put the new spawns under control by circling the spawn. Anybody breaking out of a spawn was bad and could cost you the siege if the spawn killbox broke.
Purposely making another spawn would effectively kill sieges since the nakeds would spawn elsewhere and just come back to stab you in the back.
Crafting was one of the more enjoyable experiences since it made you refine raw materials into materials that you have to use in order to make a specific item. The only thing I'd add to crafting is a list which tells you what you need for what and how to make the item. It shouldn't be an in-game item but a list you can access through the in-game menu (pressing esc). Experience and levels are also stupid and shouldn't be in a game like PW, if you want levels go play singleplayer.
"Clan banks should be available. You are able to give certain members access to withdraw and/or deposit from this, so that a separate account for giving money out to members of a faction can be delineated from private accounts. This encourages players to participate in clans and therefore actually contribute to the community. This will make funding the clan and wars much simpler." - This is a good idea and should probably be looked into.
V. Skill System - By Duckie
No. Just no.
Don't make the game have levels. If you're a serf you can't possibly compare to a knight that has been training his whole life. Serfs are just as important as fighters to a castle but being a serf should obviously limit your fighting skills.
VI. Inventory System - By Duckie
Again, just no. Carts were useful and you shouldn't be able to bring 100 bars of steel with you and carry two swords as well.
Leave the carts alone, also, make them act more like catapults so we can shoot ourselves off castle walls to see who lands farthest.
VIII. Hostile Mode
Good idea, wouldn't work. Hostile mode would just make it more complicated. I should be able to shout "help" and have anybody (that is allowed by the rules) to help me. I don't want stupid mini-games that stop me from helping a friend that is in a different faction because he's hostile to the other guy but the other guy isn't hostile to me. Don't fix what isn't broken.
I think I summed up why that list was bad, not needed and frankly, just stupid. I understand NA population wants these changes since their servers are smaller but this is a social game where joining a clan gives you a better gaming experience.
In a clan, some people will restock the castle while others protect them. You shouldn't be able to restock a castle on your own without any risks. You shouldn't be a "jack of all trades", after all, you can always retrain to a fighting class or vice versa. Every "class" in PW had it's own good and bad sides and you depend on other people to be able to do what you do.
You shouldn't limit free combat by anything other than rules and you should stop trying to reinvent the wheel, as I've already said.
Agree a lot on the cav part. Cavalry had a lot of value in PW/PK. They shouldn't just be limited to one type of horse, that's stupid.
Agree on the spawn thing. Naked people would be a real pain in the ass as they already were in PW, it was a pain in the ass but fun, making multiple spawns would make them a pain in the ass, but also not enjoyable.
About the crafting part, i found crafting also to be a fun part of PW. But i believe if the playerbase grows to over 200 players, more elaborate crafting recipes would have to be implemented that would require multiple professions to play a part into it. More then what PW already had to keep crafting interesting.
The level idea shouldn't per se be levels. Just minor improvements the more you play a class. Eg a minor boost in how fast you craft, or having a 2% chance to get two wheat bundles out of a field.
The "leveling" could work in a way you just mentioned but it shouldn't be anything related to combat (example being doing more damage, swinging faster, etc.) but should be something passive. It also shouldn't be lost on retraining to another class, if I for example maxxed out my sergeant I shouldn't lose it if I'm forced to go serf because we're restocking the castle.
The bonuses could be faster crafting and gathering/random proc on crafting/gathering classes.
Cheaper horses for cav classes or running as fast as a sergeant while on foot (still having lower weapon skills and less HP).
Less weight impact on inf classes (such as running a little bit faster while wearing plate) or cheaper heavy armor.
Cheaper arrows/bows/1h weapons on ranged or being able to use 2h weapons (greatswords) almost as good as cav classes.
Doctors could have something like being able to cure poisons without herbs or maybe giving them cheaper access to light armor and scalpels?
It shouldn't be anything game-breaking. There shouldn't be any specializations or anything combat-impacting where if you have that XP and I don't you'll win purely off that. My opinion is that if you want to play something with leveling, stat distribution and meaningful choices go play ESO, WoW or any other MMORPG.
The reason I don't think there should be leveling as there is in other games is that there isn't PvE in PW, you don't have monsters and other stuff to kill, it's all just other players. Having active leveling could mean that more experienced players would farm newer players for combat XP or there would just be constant war in order to level up. This way nothing impactful is being received and so the flow of the game wouldn't be changed much, you'd passively gain XP from participating in war or doing the needed activity (fighting for combat classes, crafting for crafters, gathering for gatherers, healing for doctors).
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Nah i ain't thinking about some kind of level system, more of a system the longer u play a class, the more "bonuses" you get. Kind of the encourage people to stay the same class.
once u retrain that bonus is gone
That wouldn't work and is toxic to big clans. Even in PW people were too lazy to retrain serf and restock the castle, with this kind of system in place nobody would go serf and there's a big difference in price between Bannerlord and Warband so two or three game keys are out of the question for the average player.
I used to, when I still had time, log on in the morning and help with restocking of the castle (it would also pay good to gather the resources and craft, so there's your gold making there) and swap to a combat class later. What you're suggesting wouldn't work for the simple reason that either not many people would get to reap the benefits or that you'd be forced to play the same class and then if you're bored with the class you play, well, you'll burn out and quit.
It happens with MMORPGs that are alt unfriendly, why do you think Kingdoms would be any different.
Wars also happen in PW so after war you still need to restock your castle, no matter which side you're on (winning or losing). How do you imagine forcing the "serf" players to log in and restock your castle for you because you can't lose your sergeant benefits you've been collecting for a year?
Imho Kingdoms shouldn't be catering to new players, new players come and go, it's the clans that will keep the mod alive and provide both new and existing players with hours of fun. We've all seen many servers die after big clans migrated from them, the mod will die if there are no servers and there will be no servers without clans.
I'm only talking about civilian jobs that have those "buffs".
The classes specifically made for warfare should in no way have this.
pew pew nice discussion.
You are absolutely right, straying to far from PW's original idea is not good, neither is just 1:1 copying over the mod. I am currently working out a roadmap for our mod development which I will post here and on discord. I have yet to finalise it and go over it with our current mod team, but the basic idea is that there are 4 stages or phases that we will go through.
Phase 1 will be gathering knowledge on the modding kit, preparing lot's of stuff, communitymanagement etc.
Phase 2 will start as soon as self-hosted / private servers will be released. Here we try and replicate the basic gameplay elements of Warband PK that we see fit for the new mod. The outcome should be a really basic PK "copy".
Phase 3 will be our improvement and reworking phase. We will rework or extend existing features from PW that require some fine tuning, here we also prepare our codebase for the final phase
Phase 4 will be the feature development phase. Here we actually go through community suggestions and our own plans and will implement them. A few features at a time get finished and released. The community can test them and they either get approved or rejected. That's then the basic development cycle we use from there on.
So the idea is to interpolate between "basic PK copy" and "new features" by going through phases in development that touch both aspects. At least that's my plan/idea on how Kingdoms will actually become and stay a PW-style mod while we are able to weave in new and fresh gameplay aspects.
Once the roadmap is done you are all welcome to give your feedback on it.
You are absolutely right, straying to far from PW's original idea is not good, neither is just 1:1 copying over the mod. I am currently working out a roadmap for our mod development which I will post here and on discord. I have yet to finalise it and go over it with our current mod team, but the basic idea is that there are 4 stages or phases that we will go through.
Phase 1 will be gathering knowledge on the modding kit, preparing lot's of stuff, communitymanagement etc.
Phase 2 will start as soon as self-hosted / private servers will be released. Here we try and replicate the basic gameplay elements of Warband PK that we see fit for the new mod. The outcome should be a really basic PK "copy".
Phase 3 will be our improvement and reworking phase. We will rework or extend existing features from PW that require some fine tuning, here we also prepare our codebase for the final phase
Phase 4 will be the feature development phase. Here we actually go through community suggestions and our own plans and will implement them. A few features at a time get finished and released. The community can test them and they either get approved or rejected. That's then the basic development cycle we use from there on.
So the idea is to interpolate between "basic PK copy" and "new features" by going through phases in development that touch both aspects. At least that's my plan/idea on how Kingdoms will actually become and stay a PW-style mod while we are able to weave in new and fresh gameplay aspects.
Once the roadmap is done you are all welcome to give your feedback on it.
Yeah that sounds great honestly. Really trying to get PK feeling first and foremost is the best idea.
This is not what I said, or at the very least what I meant. What I meant was that Knights are the only class that chargers are available to, similar to how Man-At-Arms can also use saddle and sumpter horses like the other classes.
You are aware that this already exists in PW, yes? Factions can have multiple castles, and neglecting to capture an enemy's other castle can and will result in some of them spawning there, gearing up and hitting in the back. It's pretty strategically important to ensure that the spawn you are camping is the only one you need to lock down, and is properly locked down.
Furthermore, this idea is more to help the attackers, as it would give them better means to continue their offensive should a push falter, they can get their own nakeds to cover the retreat/regear/heal up and prepare for the next push. Of course, this would need to be balanced by castles being far stronger as factions already can easily overwhelm another with 2:1 odds or even 3:2; perhaps portcullises and drawbridges may have to be re-implemented, but I don't know, that's more of a mapper thing and would need to be tested a lot for balance.
Very good that you are working on this and have an idea for a plan. I definitely agree with these four phases, of slowly but surely implementing new features and seeing if the community enjoys them. I would however like to point out that if you haven't already, start thinking about ways that the community can help out. I'm not sure about the EU side as I haven't been active there since 2017, but the excitement/anticipation/enthusiasm for a PW-style mod in Bannerlord is at an all time high in the NA community, and we want to help in any way we can. Perhaps spelling out ways we could do this, such as bringing lively and wholesome discussion to this thread, post suggestions on the github, a donation link, etc. We want to help and just need to know how.
Factions can have multiple castles or villages but they don't actively think about taking the village or castle next to them in order to spawn closer.
Castles are different because they were mostly taken by a different faction. If for example big clan A was warring big clan B then they didn't bother attacking and possibly losing some gear just to be able to spawn closer.
You even had factions give away castles they didnt need before war so that you wouldnt spawn there by accident.
It's unneeded, will not be used the way you want it to be used and will mostly just spawn unnecessary drama around warring for said villages/people spawning there by accident.
There are more ways to improve PK, adding more control points isn't helping tho.
Perhaps both of you are right, however I have seen at least on NA some factions have some members spawn at another castle in order to have their cavalry hit people in the back. Nevertheless, another point that I've thought about is, do you think it would be possible to set your spawn? For example, your faction has two castles, you press a button so that you will only spawn in castle 1 until set otherwise or castle 1 is lost/you leave the faction. That way you dont have to worry about pressing ~ and 1 every time you die.
