Yep, this is true. Crafting weapons high above your smithing level exploits the smithing. You receive huge amount of xp points and lot of higher tier parts are unlocked. Maybe they should add an option which results in "crafting failed" or just disable the crafting button if you want to craft something lot higher above your skills.
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Anushtegin
Sergeant
ok sure, you'll have no tier 6 upgrade, but on average you'll have more tier 5 fians. and more importantly, the AI will have more of them. plus, as i listed in my troop tree thread, the battanian noble line is the cheapest noble line to fully upgrade because they don't have to invest in a warhorse to get to tier 6, givign them even more of an unfair advantage compared to other troops.
what does 'tankiest' even mean? elite cataphracts don't even have shields, meaning they'll fall to any kind of missiles quickly, and havign the longest lance makes them suck in the melee on top. no, the cataphract should be the prime shock cavalry in calradia. vlandia's unique strength is their crossbowmen, which isn't a noble line either BTW.
HalfMetalJacket
Knight
Meh, I want regular archers and Fian Champions. Regular archers being a gang of woaded up ambushers, just to distinguish them from the premium Fian Champions. I'm disappointed by the lack of woad in general.
Tankiest as in most heavily armoured, like I said. I would like if armour actually worked better though. Right now they're tougher than average, but not in any meaningful way at all. Their long lances help them potentially out joust other cavalry to be fair, and if they were given cataphract maces they could be a lot better at melee.
And absolutely no, Vlandia's strength is meant to be in their shock cavalry and crossbowmen. They're literally the ancestors of the Swadians and Rhodoks, and are supposed to be sort of Norman-esque, who were known for their knights. The Banner Knight should be the absolute best shock cavalry at the pure task of delivering a hammering impact. They'd be one dimensional if all they ever had was crossbowmen.
If you give the Empire the best shock cavalry in the game, then you've basically just given them even more toys. They already power creep the **** out of other factions with their uber heavy roster, I don't want anymore of that.
Anushtegin
Sergeant
the vlandians have both a noble line and regular line of lancers. their roster does their historical model justice already. and yes, normans were known for their horsemen, doesn't mean they had the best in the world. the empire has what? their noble line that only gets mounted with tier 3 (meanign extra costs for a horse, unliek everyone else except sturgians) and their only other mounted unit is a tier 5 horse archer. and then the little expensive cavalry they get is even supposed to be worse than most everyone else's? no. just no.
HalfMetalJacket
Knight
The Empire gets arguably the best infantry in the game (the legionary), arguably the best common archer (Palatine Guard), possibly the best halberd infantry (Elite Menavliatons), and okay horse archers and crossbowmen. And their meh horse archer is still a horse archer. Their crossbowman meanwhile is far better armoured than their competition. They don't absolutely need the best possible shock cavalry on top of that.
The Empire gets to be the faction with a diverse roster where units have significantly better armour, trainability and accessability than their competition. Those are their faction strengths. They absolutely shouldn't have the best of anything, otherwise everything else is meh.
What would Vlandia even get if all they have are the best crossbowmen? As a faction, they're weirdly fragile because of poor shoulder armour, few of their troops have throwing weapons. Leaving their cavalry as is, they won't have enough real strengths.
I play on challenging so i don't win every tournament (battannia two handed tournaments are the hardest, one mistake and you are dead). But I've gotten to the point where I'm relatively good enough to win most. I don't consider this an exploit as the tournaments reflect your personal combat skill, it also helps with the new weapons evening out armor so it doesn't matter anymore. Also they stop being profitable once you hit like clan lvl 2, so it really is only a early game tactic. I did not know about the practice fights, I never do them.
You don't have to keep them in Aserai land, and there are also Khuzait traders (look for Swift last name). I do agree that they should scrap the idea of culture specific roles and just randomize the culture for each type. Like its kinda silly that there would be no empire traders. Traders will eventually travel across the whole map
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Anushtegin
Sergeant
except all of this matters little in the current meta of the game. also, what do you mean with 'trainability'? as i just said above, their noble line requires two horses to fully upgrade instead of only one for most everyone else except sturgia (also two) and battania (none). and you get what? cannon fodder that doesn't go down immediately but sitll goes down very quickly and does nothing that other, cheaper unti can do just as well or even better.
the lack of decent (or any) cavalry for the empire factions is also why they succumb as quickly to khuzaites. remember how two of the factions are literally right next to the khuazites? they need good cavalry for sheer survival. i'm not entirely sure what game you play but it cannot be the game everyoen else plays...
vlandia is also super strogn in every game because they have more clans, meanign more lords, meanign more parties, meanign bigger armies, meaning more troops, meanign more wins. their troop tree is also arguably one of the most balanced and havign two lines of shock cavalry, they also never lack in horsemen, unlike the empire factions.
HalfMetalJacket
Knight
It matters a fair bit. If you wanted a unit to just tie up the enemy for your archers to pick off, legionaries are the answer. Palatine Guards are a great answer for your archery needs too, and that's what the meta is all about at the moment.
Trainability as in infantry and archers tend to get proper equipment fairly quick and get into roles. Especially archers, everyone except the Vlandians have to wait until tier 3 before they get real ranged units.
I won't say that Cataphracts are fine, no lancer cavalry is fine. I simply think that they shouldn't have the best shock cavalry, that's all. And the actual battlefield performance of cavalry doesn't matter at all in auto calculations. Just being cavalry helps to get that 20%. I don't see how making cataphracts stronger would even solve this issue. Its more about quantity of cavalry than quality here, and the Khuzaits just happen to have the most because of their roster, which is the strongest.
I don't even know how this became a discussion of campaign situation. Vlandia is strong because of those factors, save for their troop roster. Its a balanced roster in the sense that they aren't crazy strong. They've got some meh infantry, the best crossbows and access to lancer cavalry. I still think they deserve the best shock cavalry in game, and considering that doesn't even matter in autocalc, I see no issue.
Yes, I guess you have to outnumber them like 3 or 4 to 1 (cataphracts vs any mounted Khuzait) to win the autobattle. The auto calc bonus need to go or to be changed to something different.
And it should have gone for sieges a long time ago, it should be like -10 for cav in auto calc sieges (on both sides).
Anushtegin
Sergeant
things are interconnected. the devs need to find a balance between AI/simulated battles and what the player does. sure, remove the cavalry bonus, but when the player decideds to play out battles there's still gonna be an imbalance between the empire and khuzaites for mounted troops.
the argument started with the noble lines ideally beign equally viable and filling different niches, a basic premise that i agree with. however, i pointed out that the battanian line is both too good and too cheap compared to other noble lines, and i also brought up how the empire noble line is inferior to the vlandian noble line in terms of both price and quality. however you did not agree on changing this imbalanced current status quo, running counter to your original argument. the noble lines as they are now are demonstrably far from being equal for many reasons.
LOL! Good to know i am not the only one that think of this. I just said in other topic that i should not be alowed to use palatin guards as a tier 0 clan without any resource, fame or title.
redmark
Squire
Why do they need to be 'equal'? The ultimate 'equal' is for all factions to have identical troop lines. Broadly equivalent, sure. But most complaints about troop lines (apart from archers being OP) seem to be that there isn't *enough* distinction between factions, to provide flavour and character. So there should be no fundamental problem with a faction (or two) having a non-cavalry noble line; or even that one noble line is 'better' or cheaper than another, if a particular faction has strengths and weaknesses elsewhere.
The stronger argument is about army composition across a faction and certainly Battanians have too few archers - but that could be solved by having a second, much weaker non-noble archer line as others have suggested, rather than removing one of the most distinct units in the game (and moving it to a non-noble line would be 'removing' it, as it would lose the T6 and should lose its top tier equipment). I'm not convinced that I've seen Battanian armies with 'too much' cavalry; they're only relatively weak T4/T5 options in one line (and the mounted skirmishers are pretty rare).
all the combat damages should be reduced. It's make no sense that a 2000 trops battle ends in 5 minutes, and the dominance of archers in the battlefield is due to the overall super low time to kill. If the troops had more survivability the meters that separe one archer line from one army of charging infantry would not feel like the kilometers it feels now.
HalfMetalJacket
Knight
I only said that I don't think Cataphracts should be the best shock cavalry in the game, I never said no to changing nobles around. If anything, I wanted to add a whole bunch of extra noble troops, which you haven't had any interest in addressing.
I also said that ideally, Cataphracts should be capable of filling a particular style of noble cavalry (super heavy), which will require changes to how armour works rather than anything else.
I distinctly recall getting charged by a pack of rather subpar scouts. Maybe they only seemed more numerous because of how unexpected and odd it looks. That, along with how few archers I actually see.
Anushtegin
Sergeant
i don't think extra noble troops are necessary. afterall, how much sense would an army of only noble troops make? i'd rather see them expand on mercenaries recruitable from taverns. there's still plenty of room for much more mercenaries, and the AI is actually able to recruit them.
i think what one way to solve the snowballing khuzita problem its the addition of internal wars mechanics, vassals fighting each other to steal the other vassal land, get tributes, etc, and/or not all clans going to war, depends on relations with the leader if they join or not,making going to war and get all the faction power more dificult, like in ck2?, or add more factions, "divide et impera", sorry if i didnt wrote well my idea
This is definitely not how it works.
Then please tell me how it works.
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The autoresolve is faction-agnostic.
The thing that matters for troops is their power (GetPower), which is literally just three things:
Hero? 50% bonus.
Tier? This determines most of a unit's power.
Mounted? 20% bonus.
From there is the usual dicerolls (SimulateHit and GetSimulatedDamage) which other people covered in more detail.
Cataphracts (T5 or T6) are never going to need a 3-to-1 or 4-to-1 ratio to beat a typical Khuzait force, since most Khuzait mounted units aren't that high tier. And even if the Khuzaits were only T5 or T6 -- for whatever reason -- the exchange ratio would be around 1 to (napkin math) 1.3 at worst. That's before getting into the issue that higher numbers are favored by (usually) rolling first, so right from the beginning they kill some of the less numerous defenders.
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Ok, you´re correct. So I correct my question:
A 50 Khuzait army against a 50 Empire/Battania/Sturgia/Aserai army, which army will have 3/1 cav units?
How much bonus do you want to give the Cataphracts so they stand a chance when they have 2-3 Cathaphracts / and 3-5 lower cav units in a 50 troop Empire army? While facing this 40+ cav Khuzait army.
100+?
This will make other issues...and TW needs like 5-6 months until forever to fix one issue, so?
Fix the root cause. And the root is that Khuzait armies are like 75% cav units and that cav units get this bonus.
Over the the long term it would make sense to balance the factions, but then only our grand children can enjoy stuff like this or fixed economy / AI...
On the short term (2-3 months), when TW has finished working on the more important stuff, like fixing another useless stuff (better sheep models), it will do nothing.
I can´t wait for the next update which will improve the hog model!
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