BEAST - Bannerlord Early Access Skirmish Tournament

[Ikea Knight]

Suggestions​

Please post your suggestions, questions and comments relating to BEAST#2 heree. Anything requiring an in-depth discussion would be better in a separate thread. We also looking forward to any of you criticism concerning BEAST#1

Feel free to comment on what is needed for a fun and fair tournament but understand that some things are outside of our control for now.

 

[Ikea Knight]

The Black Team will gladly take part without waiting for a new patch. (I will register a little later).

The ladder format is slightly different from the one-off tournament format. As far as I understand, is planned something similar to ENL Warband.

Suggestion: Increase the roster for teams. 12 people are not enough.

Questions: can clans, like in BEAST 1, exhibit several teams?
How will the ability to put two teams from one clan interact with the clan-multiplayer system in the promised patch 1.5?

Spoiler: P.S.

Why I keep coming back to the roster question:

The Black Team is a large but casual clan. Our people play very irregularly, taking big breaks in Bannerlord. It's hard for me to maintain a constant roster of 12 people who have entered the tournament. And at the same time, I have a lot of free players who are not registered in the tournament and want to participate in it. At the same time, I cannot guarantee that they will not abandon the Bannerlord in two months. (The black team has a roster of 350-600 people in MMORPG games. From time to time they have a desire to play Bannerlord. (Which many quickly disappear). Being loyal to the clan and the tag, they join my team. Being PvP oriented players in other games , they immediately demand from me to participate in tournaments, but their desire to play Bannerlord is not enough for long.

For comparison: in Warband, our ENL roster number 80+ people. At the same time, I did not have enough people every week, due to the constant change of the players.

Hey sorry for the late reply.
We are thinking about increasing the size of the roster. If we do, we will announce that before the tournament starts. For now, we want to encourage clans to split up, so more teams and players can play. However, we hadn't rosters of that size in mind. We were talking about about roughly 16 people. - And again it's not finalized. - Since we have different groups it might be worth looking into different roster sizes for each group, since more "professional" clans usually have a more reliable playerbase.

 

[Tryerror]

My suggestion would to go from a three system Liga to a two system liga. In my humble opinion, we have to less Teams for three and the strength different between the top three clans and the rest is to high. For example: We all know DM will be in Liga A. So everyone who wants to join Liga A have to be as good to even have a chance. Now there maybe one or two teams out there who still think after the complete and utter domination of DM over Beast#1 that they have a chance and sign up for Liga A. That means Liga A will have like five teams or something. Other teams, who know they have no chance to beat DM, would like to go to Liga B, but might probably dominate it depending on who signs up. Or you are forcing specific teams who doent want to play the top because they know they wont win to exactly fight the very top by forcing them into LigaA. My suggested Solution of two Ligas instead of three would make the Liga Pool bigger with a clear cut of competitive to casual/friends who just want to hang out.

Edit: I know this is kinda flawed logic,so i want to give one more argument. By increasing the ligapool, that one loss you get from the way to strong teams is less important then beeing forced into a liga where you only lose or lose way much, because its smaller with better teams. A bigger Liga pool means that you can take those loses without ruining your liga stats already. Overall to me it seems as a matter of fairness and fun.

 

[Namakan]

I kind of liga Tryerrors idea. Should definitely be considered unless there are a lot of teams signing up.
Each ladder should have at least around 8 teams for them to make sense, IMO.

 

[Ikea Knight]

My suggestion would to go from a three system Liga to a two system liga. In my humble opinion, we have to less Teams for three and the strength different between the top three clans and the rest is to high. For example: We all know DM will be in Liga A. So everyone who wants to join Liga A have to be as good to even have a chance. Now there maybe one or two teams out there who still think after the complete and utter domination of DM over Beast#1 that they have a chance and sign up for Liga A. That means Liga A will have like five teams or something. Other teams, who know they have no chance to beat DM, would like to go to Liga B, but might probably dominate it depending on who signs up. Or you are forcing specific teams who doent want to play the top because they know they wont win to exactly fight the very top by forcing them into LigaA. My suggested Solution of two Ligas instead of three would make the Liga Pool bigger with a clear cut of competitive to casual/friends who just want to hang out.

Edit: I know this is kinda flawed logic,so i want to give one more argument. By increasing the ligapool, that one loss you get from the way to strong teams is less important then beeing forced into a liga where you only lose or lose way much, because its smaller with better teams. A bigger Liga pool means that you can take those loses without ruining your liga stats already. Overall to me it seems as a matter of fairness and fun.

Okay at first I was rather confused yb your statement, your edit clearly helped me.

So since you are talking about the tournament format:

We are going to base our format on the ladder from WNL8

Spoiler

§ 4 Ladder Stage Format


(1) As the name suggests, during the initial ladder stage all divisions will be put into a ladder. Teams will be awarded 3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw and 0 points for a loss.

(2) Teams are sorted firstly by total points, secondly by their Buchholz score, thirdly by round difference, and lastly by rounds won.

(3) The Buchholz score is a running tally of each team's previous opponents' points from match wins, draws and losses.

(4) Teams will be automatically matched to opponents based on the following criteria: Starting from the top of the table, teams on the same points will be selected, with the highest placed team matched against the lowest placed team, the second highest against the second lowest, and so on. Any remaining team is then matched with the team immediately below them that hasn't been matched yet. Then the fixture selection moves to the next set of points, until no team is left.

(5) Teams that have faced each other previously will not have a rematch, instead the next closest opponent will be selected.

Again it's not finalized but you should get the idea of what we are planning. Ignore point 5 specifially for now.
Using this format, we don't necessarily need to have a round robin / everybody vs everybody format. If there are two very strong /very week it's probably more exciting from a skill perspective to figth each other multiple times. That way less skilled clans won't be matched with high skilled clans that often.

Ideally all groups have similiar sizes. But that's only optional. But then again that isn't all finished now. Finished Rules will probably be published next week.

 

[Tryerror]

Again it's not finalized but you should get the idea of what we are planning.

Sorry, I dont. I have no idea how all those points of things you want to take care of are practically administratable. However you said, you gonna make sure there will be no unbalanced match ups, so I take your word for it.

 

[Black_Corsair]

what about roster for div A - 9 players
B - 12 players
C - 18 players

P.S. the logic is that A division - is for true tryharders, that have time for competitive matches, and roster limit allows to have more teams even from single clan. And that teams are more consistent with better teamplay because nearly every player from roster getting play time in matches.
And lower divisions can have much more players in roster, because they play not very often, so they need that reserve to be able to play matches and to give every clanmate opportunity to play at least in one match per league

 

[Hairless]

What about class limits? Will we have vote like last time?

 

[Ikea Knight]

Right now, a vote isn't planed.

Me and Aeronwen aren't big fans of the class limits while Bard is in favor of them and the community is used to them.

So we will probably go for a 3/3 class limit.
Idealy Taleworlds would fix the game so we wouldn't have to add this rule.
Also we have to look at shockinfantry if there should be a limit to them, too.

 

[Hairless]

Right now, a vote isn't planed.

Me and Aeronwen aren't big fans of the class limits while Bard is in favor of them and the community is used to them.

So we will probably go for a 3/3 class limit.
Idealy Taleworlds would fix the game so we wouldn't have to add this rule.
Also we have to look at shockinfantry if there should be a limit to them, too.

I still support max 2, and I know people who support it as well. I suggest going for a vote so we can see what majority wants, not just the admins.

 

[Quadri]

I still support max 2, and I know people who support it as well. I suggest going for a vote so we can see what majority wants, not just the admins.

I totally agree, it's a good idea to vote
But I propose to put up several different options not just 2

 

[TheBard]

I think there's no use of a limit if we talk about limits of four or five archers/cav. The only ones which would fulfill the meaing of the word limit is 3 or 2.

 

[Hairless]

Only limits that makes sense are max 2 per class. I don't really want to have the same discussion on why max 3 or limitless is pure stupid, but I will just say that max 3 pushes meta to one we had 4 months ago with 3 mamaelukes/3 vets, 3 druzhiniks/3 varyagas, 3fians/3oathsworns and so on.

 

[Black_Corsair]

Well you won one tournament, it's time to make less resctrictions, and look where it will lead us.
Maybe the competition will be more intriguing with less limits.

"that max 3 pushes meta to one we had 4 months ago with 3 mamaelukes/3 vets, 3 druzhiniks/3 varyagas, 3fians/3oathsworns and so on."
I dont see how this is less interesting then current meta - take all infantry +1 cav/archer and push everything in melee.

 

[Hairless]

Well you won one tournament, it's time to make less resctrictions, and look where it will lead us.
Maybe the competition will be more intriguing with less limits.

"that max 3 pushes meta to one we had 4 months ago with 3 mamaelukes/3 vets, 3 druzhiniks/3 varyagas, 3fians/3oathsworns and so on."
I dont see how this is less interesting then current meta - take all infantry +1 cav/archer and push everything in melee.

Judging which meta is more interesting is an opinion. Tho I see no fun in running 3 archer 3 cav comps. I'd say just let people vote and see what they want to go with.

 

[Black_Corsair]

I'd say just let people vote and see what they want to go with.

Sure!

 

[TheBard]

Well you won one tournament, it's time to make less resctrictions, and look where it will lead us.
Maybe the competition will be more intriguing with less limits.

"that max 3 pushes meta to one we had 4 months ago with 3 mamaelukes/3 vets, 3 druzhiniks/3 varyagas, 3fians/3oathsworns and so on."
I dont see how this is less interesting then current meta - take all infantry +1 cav/archer and push everything in melee.

Well, I aswell do consider tough and intense infantry fights more fun and interesting to watch then 3 archers go pew pew. But that comes ultimately down to taste.

 

[Ikea Knight]

@Hairless

Can we get some rules introduced to prevent fixed matches and defaults to get easier brackets this time?

Since we are not using a K.O. system for this tourney it will be less of an issue.
We will look into it though.

 

[Nordwolf]

I believe with the current balance with heavy cav nerfed and with the way it's so much easier to stop cav, there is no way meta is going to revert to what was 4 months ago. Some viable tactics might come back, but I doubt they will hold their own at the top.

TLDR: 3 limit allows for much more variation and therefore allows for a more interesting tournament, while 2 limit basically forces everyone to play the same and also heavily disadvantages some factions like Aserais or Khuzaits.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

The only reason for an archer and cav restriction would be if cav and archers are OP. Since almost all archers and cav players say that their class is ruined I dont see a reason for the class limit anymore.