TW might want to change the wording of their Steam store page

[Gerta]

I don't know where the "hopefully one year of Early Access" statement is from, I do see it quoted on these forums, but on the Steam store page it actually says they "expect" around one year, and that makes a big difference:

Approximately how long will this game be in Early Access?

“While we do not have a set date for a full release at this moment in time, we expect that the game will be in early access for around a year.

• Souce: https://store.steampowered.com/app/261550/Mount__Blade_II_Bannerlord/

It makes a big difference because "expect" carries a stronger meaning than "hope." "Expect" typically means you think something is likely going to happen, whereas "hope" only means a desire for something to happen, it says nothing about how likely something is going to happen.

You typically use "expect" only when you know there is a good chance of something happening. No one would say "I expect to win the lottery." Because they know that is not likely to happen. You can only say, "I hope to win."

Likewise, when TW says they expect EA to last around one year, TW is saying that they believe there is a good chance that EA will conclude in around one year. It is not just a statement of desire or hopefulness, it is a statement about what TW thinks is likely to happen. And that wording will create expectations that, when unfulfilled, can lead to disappointment.

At this point, I don't know whether TW honestly believes that they can still pull off the EA in around 7-8 months from now. If they still believe they can do it, then keep that same wording. Otherwise, if they have honest doubts about the timeline, I think it would be wise for TW to modify this language since some people are claiming that they have been mislead by the description of the game.

I also think they may want to remove the "1 year" timeline from the store page. Why? Because of the saying "under promise, over deliver." In case someone is not familiar with the saying, it means that you should make modest promises, but over perform so that you exceed expectations. This way, not only do you give yourself leeway in case something goes wrong, but if you finish your project ahead of time, you have customers who are impressed.

On the other hand, if you "over promise, under deliver" you create unrealistic expectations that can lead to disappointment.

Definitions from Google:

Expect:

regard (something) as likely to happen.

Hope:

want something to happen or be the case.

​

TLDR: TW never said they hope that EA will end in around one year, they said they expect EA to end in around one year. At least on the Steam store page. It may benefit them to change it.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Or they could just change the year to FIVE YEARS

 

[stevehoos]

It's gonna be in development (EA) for longer than 1 year. I think we all know this now.

 

[Cochus1]

Here we go again...

 

[markp27]

How many of these threads are there now?

 

[babelfisch]

It's entirely possible that they release the game in a state many people would consider incomplete and fix the remaining issues via patches and DLC.
Not saying this would be good, but it's pretty much the industry standard by now...
Anyway, I honestly have no idea how long the game will be (or needs to be) in early access.
Maybe they have lots of almost finished stuff in the pipeline and we'll see a quicker progress in the next few months. Maybe progress will be even slower. Who knows?

 

[JabdiMelborn]

...Any TW word about the release date = Soon™...

ciauz^^,
Jab

 

[The Sign of 33]

You talk like they didn't already "over promise, under deliver", I think noone who plays Bannerlord at the moment believes it's possible to have a final launch "around a year" without them dropping some of the promised features and potential customers should take the words "we expect" and "soon" with a grain of salt, that much is clear. You've put way too unnecessary emphasis on a dull matter imo.

To be clear: I'm not suggesting them to drop features, they should take their time, I'm just hoping at some point in the future my kids will be able to enjoy the whole experience we were expecting a few years ago. Dead serious, not even kidding, not even salty anymore. I went through the acceptance phase, now all I do is playing Captain mode everyday, Sandbox be damned.

 

[babelfisch]

You talk like they didn't already "over promise, under deliver", I think noone who plays Bannerlord at the moment believes it's possible to have a final launch "around a year" without them dropping some of the promised features and potential customers should take the words "we expect" and "soon" with a grain of salt, that much is clear. You've put way too unnecessary emphasis on a dull matter imo.

That really depends on which promised features you are talking about.
If it's the stuff that is already in game as a placeholder or unfinished system, I'd say it's very much possible.

 

[Aggrobiscuit]

It's gonna be in development (EA) for longer than 1 year. I think we all know this now.

Or maybe they'll just run the clock for a year and call it done. I can't imagine the game can change much in a year given the current pace, and a lot needs to change.

 

[paladinx333]

I don't think the game will ever be what most of us wanted no matter how long it is in EA.

 

[babelfisch]

I don't think the game will ever be what most of us wanted no matter how long it is in EA.

Who are most of us and what do they want?

 

[eddiemccandless]

Well they did not specify which type of year. It could be a Martian year, then they have plenty of time! Or they could go with Jupiter and be extra safe.

 

[Notealot]

No need to dig into these words. A real truth is that they never promise when it finish.
And many players who knew Warband are waiting with patience, they need time.
Of course, may we live long.

 

[Keldar]

holy crap people, I mean I have been ripping the game over its bugs for awhile but the Devs promised NOTHING as far as a full release. Stop *****ing about the wording, you are splitting hairs. I for one will play when I want to play and when stuff that isn't fixed/complete irritates me I will stop until it is better. My god people PRIORITIES.

 

[MostBlunted]

I don't think the game will ever be what most of us wanted no matter how long it is in EA.

I just wanted a Warband 2 with more features (like they have shown in their dev blogs or in the gamescon "trailer" like the gangs in the streets for example) with better graphics.

Seems like I only get the better graphics with less features than Warband offers. At least as long as the family stuff isn´t really working.

 

[Magello]

The sad thing is with so little added and communicated with us we are breaking down and fighting over these little things such as how they worded their EA release.

From here I see a year passing with no new information and then probably somewhere around year 2 in EA they will simple say it is done with marginal changes from here with added features long given up on. I'm actually just waiting until they release a version such as MB2: Bannerlord: Warband for some of the things left on the cutting room floor.

 

[Gerta]

holy crap people, I mean I have been ripping the game over its bugs for awhile but the Devs promised NOTHING as far as a full release. Stop *****ing about the wording, you are splitting hairs. I for one will play when I want to play and when stuff that isn't fixed/complete irritates me I will stop until it is better. My god people PRIORITIES.

To you it may seem like splitting hairs. But it is not. The wording of the description will matter if, god forbid, someone does file a lawsuit against TW for false advertising. I'm not going to recite the complete law here, but the gist is that the general impression created by the advertisement matters in deciding whether an ad is misleading. And the court will can look at the precise wording. The point of my post was to urge TW to change the wording so that they can eliminate that risk.

The "Early Access" warning, by itself, is likely not enough to completely shield TW from liability here. It does help them a bit, but it is not enough by itself. For example, I put out an 50% finished game in EA, and I put the EA disclaimer on the store page. Can I put advertisements that say it is feature rich and 90% finished? No, you would say that is false advertising, despite the EA tag. Obviously, that is not what TW is doing here. But it illustrates the point that an EA disclaimer or warning is not a free pass to say whatever you want in your advertisements. So, yes, the wording on their steam store page does matter.

Source: Bored law student studying for the bar.

 

[babelfisch]

To you it may seem like splitting hairs. But it is not. The wording of the description will matter if, god forbid, someone does file a lawsuit against TW for false advertising. I'm not going to recite the complete law here, but the gist is that the general impression created by the advertisement matters in deciding whether an ad is misleading. And the court will can look at the precise wording. The point of my post was to urge TW to change the wording so that they can eliminate that risk.

The "Early Access" warning, by itself, is likely not enough to completely shield TW from liability here. It does help them a bit, but it is not enough by itself. For example, I put out an 50% finished game in EA, and I put the EA disclaimer on the store page. Can I put advertisements that say it is feature rich and 90% finished? No, you would say that is false advertising, despite the EA tag. Obviously, that is not what TW is doing here. But it illustrates the point that an EA disclaimer or warning is not a free pass to say whatever you want in your advertisements. So, yes, the wording on their steam store page does matter.

Source: Bored law student studying for the bar.

Not sure if you are aware of the lawsuit against NMS/HG but it clearly showed that consumer laws aren't as subjective as we want to interpret them. NMS won and it was like a thousand times worse than Bannerlord so I suggest people shouldn't worry about a lawsuit...

 

[Gerta]

Not sure if you are aware of the lawsuit against NMS/HG but it clearly showed that consumer laws aren't as subjective as we want to interpret them. NMS won and it was like a thousand times worse than Bannerlord so I suggest people shouldn't worry about a lawsuit...

If TW gets sued they will very likely win. That's not the point. You want to avoid getting sued altogether. Because in addition to the bad press, you also had to pay lawyers boatloads of money to defend the suit. You have to pay court fees and spend time to travel to the U.S. to prepare and defend. It ain't fun and it ain't worth it. Better to be safe. It would cost them very little to change some words.