something needs to be done about archers...

[NightC2win]

This is dead wrong. The best melee players have no problem with this. Archers are weak in melee, but a bad sword in the hands of a good player is a lot stronger than the best weapons and armor with a beginner.

Yeah right lol

 

[NightC2win]

I would also like to add to that, that giving everyone the ability to pick up a bow and have such a high accuracy is also not helping this. The decisions that everyone can ride a horse or pick up any crossbow or bow and still be able to shoot pretty easily with it, was one of the worst choices.

People are not specialized anymore in anything, they can just pick up something and become another class + the one they already had

SO TRUE!!

What are the devs thinking..??? all of a sudden everyone is an expert at riding war horses and shooting bows?? those skills used to be specialized class-wise now every class can do everything? You can even be an infantry that goes horse archer apparently... what a joke.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

Why do that when you can fix broken game mechanics like couches, throwing weaps, and archer melee ability being too high

Generally speaking it is better to have only OP classes than only weak classes. Because everyone can have those fun clutch moments.
-You lanced that retard INF 350dmg into his back because he wasnt paying attention? Feels nice
-You double oneshot two cav players with pilars because they did not raise their shild? Feels nice
-You rekt that Inf Player with your 2h sword as Fian because you are better than him? Feels nice

As long as there is a counterplay to everything in a fair manner its nice to have strong stuff. Archery, Cav and Throwing weapons are way more fun in BL which is a good thing. Counterplay should be increased tho.

 

[Percival!!]

Generally speaking it is better to have only OP classes than only weak classes. Because everyone can have those fun clutch moments.
-You lanced that retard INF 350dmg into his back because he wasnt paying attention? Feels nice
-You double oneshot two cav players with pilars because they did not raise their shild? Feels nice
-You rekt that Inf Player with your 2h sword as Fian because you are better than him? Feels nice

As long as there is a counterplay to everything in a fair manner its nice to have strong stuff. Archery, Cav and Throwing weapons are way more fun in BL which is a good thing. Counterplay should be increased tho.

1. One hit couches were balanced in warband because despite doing crazy damage, they carried high risk, and were only an effective choice in certain situations. In this game couches are the most effective option for a cav player a large portion of time because of the relatively low movement speed needed to start one, the extremely low movement speed to maintain one, no cooldown, an animation that is way too fast letting you start it from 3 feet away and still get the kill (a 0 risk method to kill archers as by the point you put it down your horse protects you from any arrow shots), and easy maneuverability. The balance right now makes it so that the cav skill floor needed to play cav is nonexistent and. Couches are the main thing bullying both archers and infantry right now as they can come from around corners and you generally can't hit the cav player before he couches (and their damage is way more broken that a regular hit from cav)
2. To fix cav couches should be far more specific in usage (like in Warband where couches where doable but a big risk and only applicable rarely as a result of the limitations on the couch), shields should have much less coverage while not being held up (for everyone but especially for people on horseback), maybe some other things but these are the main ones.
3. Things like pilas are in the same boat of being gimmicky and way too applicable, consistent one hit weapons should not be consistently effective/usable in all scenarios. Pilas are way too accurate and infantry play should be based on melee more than your throwing weapons.
4. A Fiann player skilled in melee is extremely hard to kill without throwing weapons as they can pretty much turn, hit, and run repeatedly against inf because of weird movement in this game.

Extremely punishing methods of getting kills without much risk or skill requirement are not the way to balance the game. Warband's balance was far better because if something was capable of doing insane damage it also generally had drawbacks which made it usable rarely, e.g. Couches needing to be at full speed, having cooldowns, no maneuvering. This is the one of the the main balance complaints people have about this game, overpowered things are overusable and abusable. Warband would have been **** and no fun for inf players if every cav had a long awlpike. The game should be skill based and balanced, not balanced in the form of gimmick weapons which are frustrating to play against all around.

 

[method man]

Any OP classes help veteran players more than they help the newbies, we should keep that in mind. Take, for example, the pila. While it is a one-hit wonder to begin with, sweatlords have already developed the "kick-pila." It's an infuriating move which leads to an unintuitive meta. After all, why would you assume that the game rewards players who bring ranged weapons into melee? The existence of abuseable mechanics always helps veterans first, and ruins the experience for less invested players.

What's more, getting killed by stuff that makes no sense at all is what makes you ragequit. Imagine a new player using a spear -- the universally accepted hard-counter to cav -- and getting demolished because the horse is practically made of steel. That's what makes people leave the game: frustration.

This is why insipid arguments like "let's make all classes OP" shouldn't hold any water here. The existence of easily abused mechanics will always come at the harm of new players. Granted, they may lower the skill ceiling, but that isn't the same as leveling the playing field.

 

[Lord Bryggan]

I find the archers much less annoying than they were in Warband. Sure, I hate it when I get stuck in a duel and suddenly I get an arrow in the back when I'm about to kill the guy, but that is much better than being couched from behind. But the weapons and armour of an elite archer don't bother me, since they are paid for.

I usually play infantry, but occasionally I'll play Palatine Guard or Khan's guard just as an infantry with a perk- I rarely use more than half my quiver. I just take pot shots at cav, or aim a few arrows to annoy enemies.

I would, however, like to see the passive shield block made smaller and the active shield block bigger.

 

[rektasaurus]

Vertical aim correction for archery is good. Predicting lead is hard enough without the janky movement. I guarantee you that if you like using bows, not having vertical aim correction will be super annoying and we’ll just change our y axis sensitivity to make it more comfortable to aim.

I don’t understand all these archery posts they’re not op at all. I think being well armored and on foot with a big two-hander is the probably the most dominant loadout.

The game should be skill based and balanced, not balanced in the form of gimmick weapons which are frustrating to play against all around.

This 100%. Was there ever a point in mp testing where all players had equal attributes and loadouts? I feel the meta is sort of looking at what the other team is bringing and making last second decisions based on that. Usually choices are around how many big damage dealing melee units can you bring according to the number of archers the other side has, you know if there’s ever any coordination. It’s not fun playing pug.

 

[Zoonanay]

Vertical aim correction for archery is good. Predicting lead is hard enough without the janky movement. I guarantee you that if you like using bows, not having vertical aim correction will be super annoying and we’ll just change our y axis sensitivity to make it more comfortable to aim.

I don’t understand all these archery posts they’re not op at all. I think being well armored and on foot with a big two-hander is the probably the most dominant loadout.

The problem isn't vertical aim correction adjusting for perspective, it's that it also adjusts for gravity. It's the difference between that neck shot and a shoulder shot, and makes first person redundant since you'd have to allow for gravity you otherwise wouldn't. Either both should auto-allow or neither should.

Weaker bows are more accurate than they used to be in warband, damage values are higher, infantry movement speed is lower, pierce values do higher headshot damage than warband. If it was any one or two of these issues, archery would be in a much more tolerable state especially in comparison to the overpowered behemoths that are heavy horses.

But with all these and more, I think archery needs some serious looking to if the devs don't want top tier play to more resemble CSGO than Warband, once the cav nerfs come through, especially with the prevalance of kick shooting.

Plus, I think the two hander thing is more a TDM kinda deal due to fund restrictions. I find shield classes far more effective in Skrimish for instance. I find it really depends on the gamemode.

 

[rektasaurus]

The problem isn't vertical aim correction adjusting for perspective, it's that it also adjusts for gravity. It's the difference between that neck shot and a shoulder shot, and makes first person redundant since you'd have to allow for gravity you otherwise wouldn't. Either both should auto-allow or neither should.

Weaker bows are more accurate than they used to be in warband, damage values are higher, infantry movement speed is lower, pierce values do higher headshot damage than warband. If it was any one or two of these issues, archery would be in a much more tolerable state especially in comparison to the overpowered behemoths that are heavy horses.

But with all these and more, I think archery needs some serious looking to if the devs don't want top tier play to more resemble CSGO than Warband, once the cav nerfs come through, especially with the prevalance of kick shooting.

Plus, I think the two hander thing is more a TDM kinda deal due to fund restrictions. I find shield classes far more effective in Skrimish for instance. I find it really depends on the gamemode.

Well I’m not 100% on the mech of vertical aim. I would love to see this game get polished to the point of something like csgo, I’m a huge fan of that game too. The game needs to allow for far greater precision to achieve csgo status. Rng to missile trajectory is not awful imo. But at a certain point, like at a close range, or something, being able to aim precisely and being able practice that is for sure something that is necessary. Not just for archery, but also precision for putting blade points where you want to. The two handers are nice because attack speed is fast and cutting or crushing damage values are big. Swords feel super flimsy. They bounce off everything and every just keeps going as if nothing happened. I think thrust damage needs to be ultra buffed actually. Spear point or sword point thrust damage should be 1-2 hit kill and now that I think of it block down should fail on a high thrust to the face, for example. Right? I love sidestepping to dodge thrusts or downward slashes and think it would be great if thrusts did more than like 20 - 35 dmg moving forward. It seems silly.

First person is just the view I use for arrows because my head blocks exactly the tiny spot I need to see to aim. It’s also necessary in packed in fighting since friendly units’ floating counters obscure the view so much. It’s literally to just be able to see. I wish they changed the 3rd person camera just a little. Mouse movement seems really weird for some reason. Maybe I need to turn down my sensitivity more..?

 

[Biyonik]

Vertical aim correction for archery is good. Predicting lead is hard enough without the janky movement. I guarantee you that if you like using bows, not having vertical aim correction will be super annoying and we’ll just change our y axis sensitivity to make it more comfortable to aim.

I don’t understand all these archery posts they’re not op at all. I think being well armored and on foot with a big two-hander is the probably the most dominant loadout.



This 100%. Was there ever a point in mp testing where all players had equal attributes and loadouts? I feel the meta is sort of looking at what the other team is bringing and making last second decisions based on that. Usually choices are around how many big damage dealing melee units can you bring according to the number of archers the other side has, you know if there’s ever any coordination. It’s not fun playing pug.

Archers are op. Take veteran for example, if you pick mace/armor and shield for veteran, you are basically an archer that is as potent in melee combat as any other heavy infantry. Same deal with khuzaits archer(khans guard?). In general, archers dont have the drawbacks an archer should have, namely reduced survivability and melee capabilities due to their extremely high armor and melee options

 

[Biyonik]

Well I’m not 100% on the mech of vertical aim. I would love to see this game get polished to the point of something like csgo, I’m a huge fan of that game too. The game needs to allow for far greater precision to achieve csgo status. Rng to missile trajectory is not awful imo. But at a certain point, like at a close range, or something, being able to aim precisely and being able practice that is for sure something that is necessary. Not just for archery, but also precision for putting blade points where you want to. The two handers are nice because attack speed is fast and cutting or crushing damage values are big. Swords feel super flimsy. They bounce off everything and every just keeps going as if nothing happened. I think thrust damage needs to be ultra buffed actually. Spear point or sword point thrust damage should be 1-2 hit kill and now that I think of it block down should fail on a high thrust to the face, for example. Right? I love sidestepping to dodge thrusts or downward slashes and think it would be great if thrusts did more than like 20 - 35 dmg moving forward. It seems silly.

First person is just the view I use for arrows because my head blocks exactly the tiny spot I need to see to aim. It’s also necessary in packed in fighting since friendly units’ floating counters obscure the view so much. It’s literally to just be able to see. I wish they changed the 3rd person camera just a little. Mouse movement seems really weird for some reason. Maybe I need to turn down my sensitivity more..?

Thrusts already deal ridiculous amount of damage in my experience. Spatha hits for 15-20 while a thrust can easily deal around 45

 

[rektasaurus]

Archers are op. Take veteran for example, if you pick mace/armor and shield for veteran, you are basically an archer that is as potent in melee combat as any other heavy infantry. Same deal with khuzaits archer(khans guard?). In general, archers dont have the drawbacks an archer should have, namely reduced survivability and melee capabilities due to their extremely high armor and melee options

I mean yeah they’re really good. If they’re shooting at you it’s tough. It requires shields. I don’t see a problem with them really. 1v1, a shield bearing infantry would kill an archer unit. Archers need backup. And if they put their bow away it’s fine if they’re just another melee unit.

 

[rektasaurus]

Thrusts already deal ridiculous amount of damage in my experience. Spatha hits for 15-20 while a thrust can easily deal around 45

3 hits to kill with bannerlords janky engine seems too much to me IMO. Forget that you can’t thrust over shields with swords or spears. I think thrusting needs to be buffed. Like running and stabbing should deal 65. Spear damage to horses should be buffed too. I can’t tell you how many solid hits I get and the horse just rears up. My spear should go through its whole neck if it slams into me at 20mph.

They should take everything out and focus on blade v blade first tbh. Nothing but sword and spear. If anything other than axes and lances feels precise and effective then people won’t moan about archers. They’re honestly god awful. Anyone who knows what they’re doing will just wade into you and destroy you.

 

[Biyonik]

I mean yeah they’re really good. If they’re shooting at you it’s tough. It requires shields. I don’t see a problem with them really. 1v1, a shield bearing infantry would kill an archer unit. Archers need backup. And if they put their bow away it’s fine if they’re just another melee unit.

thats the exact problem, a shield bearing heavy infantry is no better than a veteran with mace and shield, hell you could even argue oathsworn is worse in melee than veteran because oathsworn doesnt have anti armor weapons

 

[rektasaurus]

thats the exact problem, a shield bearing heavy infantry is no better than a veteran with mace and shield, hell you could even argue oathsworn is worse in melee than veteran because oathsworn doesnt have anti armor weapons

Yeah omg even the stupid names almost trigger me lol. With a name like mount and blade you’d think it’d be a little more barebones than this stuff. What’s wrong with having like 3 instead of 4 slots for weapons and shield 1 slot for armor or something?

I just played a game Sturgia vs Aserai and it’s like, they didn’t stand a chance vs vagyar having heavy armor with a shield and an axe. Vagyar gets throwing axes too. I really wish we could pick our loadouts not being locked into a weapon type, but rather options for the same weapons only in a different flavor. It’s all screwy and we can’t even pick our factions it’s all random.

 

[Zoonanay]

Well I’m not 100% on the mech of vertical aim. I would love to see this game get polished to the point of something like csgo, I’m a huge fan of that game too. The game needs to allow for far greater precision to achieve csgo status. Rng to missile trajectory is not awful imo. But at a certain point, like at a close range, or something, being able to aim precisely and being able practice that is for sure something that is necessary. Not just for archery, but also precision for putting blade points where you want to. The two handers are nice because attack speed is fast and cutting or crushing damage values are big. Swords feel super flimsy. They bounce off everything and every just keeps going as if nothing happened. I think thrust damage needs to be ultra buffed actually. Spear point or sword point thrust damage should be 1-2 hit kill and now that I think of it block down should fail on a high thrust to the face, for example. Right? I love sidestepping to dodge thrusts or downward slashes and think it would be great if thrusts did more than like 20 - 35 dmg moving forward. It seems silly.

First person is just the view I use for arrows because my head blocks exactly the tiny spot I need to see to aim. It’s also necessary in packed in fighting since friendly units’ floating counters obscure the view so much. It’s literally to just be able to see. I wish they changed the 3rd person camera just a little. Mouse movement seems really weird for some reason. Maybe I need to turn down my sensitivity more..?

You can adjust the third person camera in the options menu, I found it helped to zoom the camera out so I had a better FOV.

CSGO is a good game, but for a number of reasons aim is the determinant factor of skill, if you're good enough at aim it can be the only skill you actually need to perfect even at the highest levels. That's what I was more referencing rather than its completed state.

Swords can be finnicky, I would suggest using a mace if you're struggling to consistently strike in the high-damage area of the swing as they have a greater leniancy in this regard.

Two handers can be effective in melee, however leave you completely exposed to competent archer/jav players, a rather significant risk for little to no advantage overall.

Thrusts are generally the weakest attack direction for a sword, it's always been like that probably due to the precise positioning required to deal damage. However, like with arrows, the pierce damage has a bonus on headshots so striking to the head will be far more likely to deal significant damage, same goes with spears. Though I agree that they may need minor enhancements with regards to infantry combat.

 

[rektasaurus]

You can adjust the third person camera in the options menu, I found it helped to zoom the camera out so I had a better FOV.

CSGO is a good game, but for a number of reasons aim is the determinant factor of skill, if you're good enough at aim it can be the only skill you actually need to perfect even at the highest levels. That's what I was more referencing rather than its completed state.

Swords can be finnicky, I would suggest using a mace if you're struggling to consistently strike in the high-damage area of the swing as they have a greater leniancy in this regard.

Two handers can be effective in melee, however leave you completely exposed to competent archer/jav players, a rather significant risk for little to no advantage overall.

Thrusts are generally the weakest attack direction for a sword, it's always been like that probably due to the precise positioning required to deal damage. However, like with arrows, the pierce damage has a bonus on headshots so striking to the head will be far more likely to deal significant damage, same goes with spears. Though I agree that they may need minor enhancements with regards to infantry combat.

I don’t have a problem using swords I’m real good at it. Actually I don’t like the maces because they don’t have enough reach for me.

It surprises me that thrusts are so weak. They’re literally the strongest attack direction for weapons with a point. IMO failure to block a thrust should be fatal in the face, neck, or torso.

Also there’s much more to csgo than just the aim, although god-tier aim is huge, mouse aim and keyboard movement are almost inseparable.

 

[rektasaurus]

You can adjust the third person camera in the options menu, I found it helped to zoom the camera out so I had a better FOV.

CSGO is a good game, but for a number of reasons aim is the determinant factor of skill, if you're good enough at aim it can be the only skill you actually need to perfect even at the highest levels. That's what I was more referencing rather than its completed state.

Swords can be finnicky, I would suggest using a mace if you're struggling to consistently strike in the high-damage area of the swing as they have a greater leniancy in this regard.

Two handers can be effective in melee, however leave you completely exposed to competent archer/jav players, a rather significant risk for little to no advantage overall.

Thrusts are generally the weakest attack direction for a sword, it's always been like that probably due to the precise positioning required to deal damage. However, like with arrows, the pierce damage has a bonus on headshots so striking to the head will be far more likely to deal significant damage, same goes with spears. Though I agree that they may need minor enhancements with regards to infantry combat.

Thrust damage to the face is 75. I can't really that is with full movement bonus or not. It feels so low. A slash to the body with an axe deals 86. Somehow I think a point going through my face might be an immediately debilitating injury. Can't 1 shot headshot with a sword to the face?

 

[Virtuosho]

i can 100% guarantee the retard ****s who complain about players as peasants being able to pick up bows and get on horses would be the same ****s whinging if you couldn't

The fact the actual player can do this is important, maybe he's a peasant but was a retired veteran, you dont know, but to lessen the actual playing persons experience because you dont like that he can get your horse or pick up a bow is ****ing pathetic and you should have a good hard look at yourself. What a stupid statement.

 

[Younes]

The fact the actual player can do this is important, maybe he's a peasant but was a retired veteran, you dont know, but to lessen the actual playing persons experience because you dont like that he can get your horse or pick up a bow is ****ing pathetic and you should have a good hard look at yourself. What a stupid statement.

It's called balancing a game.

If you can't understand that being able to be an infantryman , an archer and an horse archer all at the same time is wrong, you should redirect that last statement to yourself.