Beta Patch Notes e1.4.2

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That´s not new, correct me if I´m wrong, but it was in the game since launch. There aren´t really new features since launch, only some fixed stuff which introduced new bugs. I don´t see a lot of improvements after 9-10 weeks. That´s the problem...

They claim stuff X is fixed and most of the time it isn´t. They claim to add stuff Y and new bugs occur, they have like no QA because we paid to be their QA and it´s annoying.

From their perspective, that´s a great deal! Release a game without much content, demand full price for it, have the buyers test the updates. A really good business model from TW.

Most of their updates are just shots in the dark and they hope they´ll improve the game, most of the time they don´t and just make it worse.

The modders are the guys who really improve the game and make it playable when you reach mid game (early game is fun even with vanilla). But then TW release another update which does nothing and a lot of mods break, which is ok for an EA game if they would improve the game...but as I said, no internal QA...

I repeat myself but there a lot of mods which only fixes known bugs but TW themselves doesn´t bother to fix those bugs so you need to rely on the modders, that´s sad for a full price game.

Example:

Formation bug, reported like 8 weeks ago (?!) still not fixed, mods fixed it like 3 weeks after release....community patch....and so on...

I´ve lost my hope in TW, i don´t think they´ll be able to deliver a decent game in a year. TW took like 4 weeks (?) to fix those useless unit stats like units with 2-handed weapons had 1-handed skill, mods fixed it a few days after it was discovered, and that was just changing some numbers in XML filles. Nothing I could do because I´ve never tried to mod, but I expect the dev of a game to fix easy stuff like this fast. Also I´m not getting paid from TW but instead paid them to play this game.

The diplomancy mod does a better job than TW when it comes down on options for diplomancy, that´s also sad....

Thanks to all you modders who try to keep this game playable and fun. It´s like fighting against wind mills I guess (Don Quichote).

Keep in mind, they don´t get paid or earn anything if TW sells another copy of this game.They do it because they love the game (I guess), I wish TW also would love their game.

Remeber the first time the truce period was introduced? It was removed shortly without any replacement (before it was added again) even one of the devs (mexxico) said that this wasn´t a good idea and he tried to prevent it but failed. Doesn´t this tell you enough?

I bet that like 90% of all players would agree that the truce period improved the game at this point, still TW did whatever they want even if one/more of their own devs were against it....

Looks like this thread has been moving quickly so I am a little late to responding but this is exactly my impression. I've said it many times: There are clearly some talented people working at TW. However, their planning and leadership is a ****show. It is plainly obvious to anyone involved in software development that they do not have a cohesive plan, they do not have any sort of serious QA. It seems that even the devs themselves quite often do not test the changes that they make.
 
Care to list those various reasons?
1) I have an army of my companions (around 500 troops total) and I go around sniping enemy armies of at least 50% bigger size, so there's already a numbers disadvantage. If you would add to that the troop tier disadvantage, it would just be too much.
Now why do I do that, you may ask? Because the psychopath idiots from my faction (not my kingdom, I'm a vassal) have declared war to ALL other factions at once and we started slowly losing fiefs, plus we can't keep the ones we conquer for long, because the enemy magically spawns with 1000+ armies casually every week and casually takes our newly conquered fiefs that naturally have few defenders for some time after being conquered (the AI doesn't have a task in it's possible actions of trying to keep what they conquered). For some reason, I don't see that happening so much in my faction, even though we're currently twice the size of any other faction, according to the kingdom diplomacy overview.
2) In these big battles, the recruits are highly unlikely to survive in great numbers, so it triggers a spiral of trying to fill up the troop count and have enough troops battle-capable (higher tier). The battle AI is very rudimentary still, especially for the cavalry, so I end up constantly losing highest-tier special cavalry to enemy recruits with pitchforks, mostly due to cavalry AI's pretty idiotic behavior in the thick of the fight.
If I put recruits in a separate group and order them to stay on the side in order to save them from mass slaughter, guess what, they're not going to level up at all. [Side note 1: I believe troops should get some amount of xp from just participating in a battle, not only when they damage an enemy unit.]
3) Suppose I would like to only carry troops of my culture and my ultimate goal is for my faction to conquer the whole map (is there any other ultimate goal possible?). After some number of battles I need to decide that it's time to replenish the troops with recruits, which means travelling back to my lands for starters, which by itself is a great liability for my faction as I'm the only one with at least some semblance of intelligence and logical thinking.
[Side note 2: Having conquered fiefs slowly change culture to the conqueror's one should be a thing.]
Then, when I go back and refill my ranks, I have two choices for leveling up new recruits:
a) Spend some time chasing looters which, btw, isn't easy to do with an army. [Side note 3: Even though I have a horsemen-only army, my map speed is 4.2 max, and that's with mods that make all the traits and perks work, like those that give you extra speed!? This is wrong. You may argue that, realistically, an army of 500 is not able to move as fast as a party of 20, but please let's not go there, because this is not a medieval simulator and it would be trivial to dismantle any part of the game design with this path of thinking. If something is not fun, it shouldn't be in the game.]
b) Immediately go back to the front line and train the recruits in battles against enemy factions. This just means I will lose many of them quickly so the time to go back again will come sooner.
I hope you see how both of these choices are far less than ideal.
 
1) I have an army of my companions (around 500 troops total) and I go around sniping enemy armies of at least 50% bigger size, so there's already a numbers disadvantage. If you would add to that the troop tier disadvantage, it would just be too much.
Now why do I do that, you may ask? Because the psychopath idiots from my faction (not my kingdom, I'm a vassal) have declared war to ALL other factions at once and we started slowly losing fiefs, plus we can't keep the ones we conquer for long, because the enemy magically spawns with 1000+ armies casually every week and casually takes our newly conquered fiefs that naturally have few defenders for some time after being conquered (the AI doesn't have a task in it's possible actions of trying to keep what they conquered). For some reason, I don't see that happening so much in my faction, even though we're currently twice the size of any other faction, according to the kingdom diplomacy overview.
2) In these big battles, the recruits are highly unlikely to survive in great numbers, so it triggers a spiral of trying to fill up the troop count and have enough troops battle-capable (higher tier). The battle AI is very rudimentary still, especially for the cavalry, so I end up constantly losing highest-tier special cavalry to enemy recruits with pitchforks, mostly due to cavalry AI's pretty idiotic behavior in the thick of the fight.
If I put recruits in a separate group and order them to stay on the side in order to save them from mass slaughter, guess what, they're not going to level up at all. [Side note 1: I believe troops should get some amount of xp from just participating in a battle, not only when they damage an enemy unit.]
3) Suppose I would like to only carry troops of my culture and my ultimate goal is for my faction to conquer the whole map (is there any other ultimate goal possible?). After some number of battles I need to decide that it's time to replenish the troops with recruits, which means travelling back to my lands for starters, which by itself is a great liability for my faction as I'm the only one with at least some semblance of intelligence and logical thinking.
[Side note 2: Having conquered fiefs slowly change culture to the conqueror's one should be a thing.]
Then, when I go back and refill my ranks, I have two choices for leveling up new recruits:
a) Spend some time chasing looters which, btw, isn't easy to do with an army. [Side note 3: Even though I have a horsemen-only army, my map speed is 4.2 max, and that's with mods that make all the traits and perks work, like those that give you extra speed!? This is wrong. You may argue that, realistically, an army of 500 is not able to move as fast as a party of 20, but please let's not go there, because this is not a medieval simulator and it would be trivial to dismantle any part of the game design with this path of thinking. If something is not fun, it shouldn't be in the game.]
b) Immediately go back to the front line and train the recruits in battles against enemy factions. This just means I will lose many of them quickly so the time to go back again will come sooner.
I hope you see how both of these choices are far less than ideal.

The biggest problem with using recruits after the opening stages of the game is that it doesn’t really make sense why I can’t give said recruits better gear and put them in a shield wall or archer line. Like I have a million denars, forget the pitchfork, here’s a spear that I bought for you. Either death rate at the front line for recruits needs to be greatly diminished by some mechanism like you pointed out or recruitment needs to be completely reworked. I can’t understand how this is an issue at this point after such well developed recruitment systems in warband.
 
The biggest problem with using recruits after the opening stages of the game is that it doesn’t really make sense why I can’t give said recruits better gear and put them in a shield wall or archer line. Like I have a million denars, forget the pitchfork, here’s a spear that I bought for you. Either death rate at the front line for recruits needs to be greatly diminished by some mechanism like you pointed out or recruitment needs to be completely reworked. I can’t understand how this is an issue at this point after such well developed recruitment systems in warband.
There's a good mod that lets you train your troops for a money at local arenas. Kind a simple fix, but it works.
 
Did the last changes disrupt the economy? Currently I'm trying to trade hardwood and iron ore but each city offers about only half the price you have to pay for it in the villages. Also it seems that the cities require a lot less materials. The prices will go down rapidly after selling two or three units making it quite hard to trade more than five units in the same city. I am currently at a point in the early game with my current character where I am currently at a stand still. I am more or less trading just enough to earn the wages of my troops each day (about 350 denars).

Please be so kind and take a look again at the trading goods prices. The current state is not very fun to play.
 
I’m pretty sure You are right. So it would be nice. Better and more realistic than earning milions just from tannery business :smile:
Ok had a test on this.
Ok it works better than it did before as you cant just have a workshop all tanners and see the money come in.But i sat in one place for 3 months just to see if at any time you get a plus on 3 tanners.I have a fresh game with 1.4.2 with no mods .
Before patch i was getting +380 a day with a party of 126 troops there wage was 1127.. so after it was paid i still had 380 coming into me. so i sat there for 3 moths to see how much it would go up and down.I was getting between +85 to 124 for all 3 workshops.. so that would mean i would need 10 workshops so i could get +1240 after paying my troops would give me +113 each day. and thats ok but once i start getting more troops that would be gone and you can not have any more than 10 workshops.
I no its not a game thing to just have tanners and things have to change so we will have different work shops but i think it went a little to low with this patch just a tab. but saying this i still think TW are moving the right way.
 
1) I have an army of my companions (around 500 troops total) and I go around sniping enemy armies of at least 50% bigger size, so there's already a numbers disadvantage. If you would add to that the troop tier disadvantage, it would just be too much.
Now why do I do that, you may ask? Because the psychopath idiots from my faction (not my kingdom, I'm a vassal) have declared war to ALL other factions at once and we started slowly losing fiefs, plus we can't keep the ones we conquer for long, because the enemy magically spawns with 1000+ armies casually every week and casually takes our newly conquered fiefs that naturally have few defenders for some time after being conquered (the AI doesn't have a task in it's possible actions of trying to keep what they conquered). For some reason, I don't see that happening so much in my faction, even though we're currently twice the size of any other faction, according to the kingdom diplomacy overview.
2) In these big battles, the recruits are highly unlikely to survive in great numbers, so it triggers a spiral of trying to fill up the troop count and have enough troops battle-capable (higher tier). The battle AI is very rudimentary still, especially for the cavalry, so I end up constantly losing highest-tier special cavalry to enemy recruits with pitchforks, mostly due to cavalry AI's pretty idiotic behavior in the thick of the fight.
If I put recruits in a separate group and order them to stay on the side in order to save them from mass slaughter, guess what, they're not going to level up at all. [Side note 1: I believe troops should get some amount of xp from just participating in a battle, not only when they damage an enemy unit.]
3) Suppose I would like to only carry troops of my culture and my ultimate goal is for my faction to conquer the whole map (is there any other ultimate goal possible?). After some number of battles I need to decide that it's time to replenish the troops with recruits, which means travelling back to my lands for starters, which by itself is a great liability for my faction as I'm the only one with at least some semblance of intelligence and logical thinking.
[Side note 2: Having conquered fiefs slowly change culture to the conqueror's one should be a thing.]
Then, when I go back and refill my ranks, I have two choices for leveling up new recruits:
a) Spend some time chasing looters which, btw, isn't easy to do with an army. [Side note 3: Even though I have a horsemen-only army, my map speed is 4.2 max, and that's with mods that make all the traits and perks work, like those that give you extra speed!? This is wrong. You may argue that, realistically, an army of 500 is not able to move as fast as a party of 20, but please let's not go there, because this is not a medieval simulator and it would be trivial to dismantle any part of the game design with this path of thinking. If something is not fun, it shouldn't be in the game.]
b) Immediately go back to the front line and train the recruits in battles against enemy factions. This just means I will lose many of them quickly so the time to go back again will come sooner.
I hope you see how both of these choices are far less than ideal.
Thanks for taking the time to elaborate on that. I get where you're coming from, but we must not be playing the same game, because my experience is quite different.

Starting from a totally empty party, I went from settlement to settlement grabbing every troop and mercenary I could get my hands on unitl I hit my party capacity (of 139). Here is that army, with >50% being tier 1 recruits, and 30% being mercenaries:

Recruit-Army-1.png
Recruit-Army-2.png

I then went straight to enemy territory and hunted down four npc lords one after the other. Here are the parties of those four lords in order:

Recruit-Army-Battles.png


How do you think those battles went? Mass slaughter, barely eking out the victory and forcing me to turn around and go home? Here are the results:


Battle 1

Battle 2

Battle 3

Battle 4

Not bad right? I recruited prisoners taken from each battle to supplement my loses. All of my settings are on max difficulty, including recruiting and map speed. Here is the final state of my party after those four battles:

Recruit-Army-Outcome-1.png
Recruit-Army-Outcome-2.png

Only 4 recruits left out of the original 72, and I only fought those four battles, no more no less. My party is now capable of defeating at least 80% of the individual npc parties on the entire map, and it took like a half an hour to assemble. Obviously your mileage may vary depending on what faction you belong to, how many wars you're in, how many horses you have access to, etc, but I hardly consider grinding looters a requirement in this game.

As it turns out, npcs don't possess very experienced parties either, and it's only because players spend so much time slaughtering them wholesale with tier 5+ armies that they think recruits are so fragile.
 
If you have tier-1 soldier group consist of 10 men you were getting 30xp in old calculation. Now you get 2xp per soldier means that in total you get 20xp for your tier-1 group. So xp gains did not changed much for tier-1 groups. If you have 20 men in one group you get 40xp for that group which is more than previous implementation. Any one perk does not supposed to train your troops by itself only. We have hundreds of perks and any of them cannot be so powerfull. You will also go into battles time to time if you have this perk probably about 15% xp gains will applied by this perk to your 1-2-3 tier soldiers and 85% will gained by battles. We cannot make effect of one perk equal to battle rewards.

These perks are only side effect. We will add more. If you collect several of them you can upgrade your soldiers easily without battles.
I'm sure you will make this nerf after the other perks have been implemented and not give us a **** show like the 25 day truce thing again right? Or have you learned nothing from that?
 
The biggest problem with using recruits after the opening stages of the game is that it doesn’t really make sense why I can’t give said recruits better gear and put them in a shield wall or archer line. Like I have a million denars, forget the pitchfork, here’s a spear that I bought for you. Either death rate at the front line for recruits needs to be greatly diminished by some mechanism like you pointed out or recruitment needs to be completely reworked. I can’t understand how this is an issue at this point after such well developed recruitment systems in warband.

I posted a similar suggestion with a detailed possible solution to this problem a while ago. Unfortunately it didn't get much attention:

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/inverted-troop-upgrades-vs-denar-magic.420599/

Maybe linking my own thread can change that :xf-tongue:
 
The last update fixed the lord persuation bug but now SEED GRAIN quest has the same issue. When you try to offer the grain there is no option to offer it and when you press "I am working on it" the convo gets stuck.
 
Anyone has his income from workshops/caravan shrinked after last hotfix? I have 4 workshops which make a total of 300+ denars per day all of them together!!! my caravan make something like 30-50 if any.Workshops are in towns which arent besieged or being besieged recently and caravan is runned by spiceventor.I cant pay an army of 125 now and losing daily about 1k.

Same here, trading is also not a viable option anymore. That`s no fun at all. I hope the devs will get their act together, but I have limited hope.
 
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Thanks for taking the time to elaborate on that. I get where you're coming from, but we must not be playing the same game, because my experience is quite different.

Starting from a totally empty party, I went from settlement to settlement grabbing every troop and mercenary I could get my hands on unitl I hit my party capacity (of 139). Here is that army, with >50% being tier 1 recruits, and 30% being mercenaries:

Recruit-Army-1.png
Recruit-Army-2.png

I then went straight to enemy territory and hunted down four npc lords one after the other. Here are the parties of those four lords in order:

Recruit-Army-Battles.png


How do you think those battles went? Mass slaughter, barely eking out the victory and forcing me to turn around and go home? Here are the results:


Battle 1

Battle 2

Battle 3

Battle 4

Not bad right? I recruited prisoners taken from each battle to supplement my loses. All of my settings are on max difficulty, including recruiting and map speed. Here is the final state of my party after those four battles:

Recruit-Army-Outcome-1.png
Recruit-Army-Outcome-2.png

Only 4 recruits left out of the original 72, and I only fought those four battles, no more no less. My party is now capable of defeating at least 80% of the individual npc parties on the entire map, and it took like a half an hour to assemble. Obviously your mileage may vary depending on what faction you belong to, how many wars you're in, how many horses you have access to, etc, but I hardly consider grinding looters a requirement in this game.

As it turns out, npcs don't possess very experienced parties either, and it's only because players spend so much time slaughtering them wholesale with tier 5+ armies that they think recruits are so fragile.
Nicely said i have also seen this.and also play on hard maybe the lords of factions need a faster build up on there troops ..
 
The experiences will inevitably vary based on many factors as you said.
In one of my earlier playthroughs I played with mixed troops, replenished only from prisoners so I didn't even need to hire any recruits after a point. That's fine.

Notice how you fought parties smaller than yours, where half of each party on their side was also recruits. That's perfectly fine, and I'm also attacking anyone I can catch up with or corner, but I'm mostly intercepting armies often twice my size that are trying to (re)conquer one of our towns/castles. Now due to my computer's (in)ability, I can only crank the max number of troops to 700 in the performance settings, and that means that, proportional to army size, I'm going to have around 250 troops at the start of battle to their 500. If many of my starting troops would happen to be recruits, it becomes difficult to fend off their waves without significant losses, and I need to have as few losses as possible, because right after this battle there's another one like it right around the corner and so on and so forth.
This all is mostly due to the frantic dynamic of wars and respawns.
Maybe if TW could achieve a more sane dynamic where, let's say, a 1000 vs 1000 battles would actually mean something and would happen like twice or trice a year at most, I wouldn't mind losing half my troops in such battles. The way it is now, since my AI fellow nobles are dumb as a doorbell, me and my army are a precious resource which should be treated as such and not wasted lightly.
I'm also playing on all max difficulties.
Anyway, I can only speak from my experience and voice my opinion. We all want this to transform into a great game so we could enjoy it more. How (and if) we get there, TW will have to decide.
 
Imo passive xp should be gain for tier 1,2,3. After tier 3 no more passive xp should be applied and xp must be earned through battles. Also the amount for passive xp may be depend on how many top tier troops you have in your army. The more top tier troops you have means faster transition from tier 0 to tier 3. This way we do not have to fight with looters with elite units.
 
The way it is now, since my AI fellow nobles are dumb as a doorbell, me and my army are a precious resource which should be treated as such and not wasted lightly.

Bit of a tangential remark from me, but I really think they need to make AI armies handle food management a lot better. As it stands, a stupendous proportion of wars get lost only because an idiot Lord put together a large army, gathering from deep inside friendly territory, to march deep into enemy territory. It starts starving halfway through its first siege, abandons the plan and gets wrecked before it can reach home having achieved absolutely nothing for the realm.

Dispiritingly, I've found (as Sturgia, one of the worst offenders for gathering armies in dumb places) that just showing up to every army with 200 Recruits and CARTLOADS OF FOOD has been enough to make Sturgia hold its own in almost every war.
 
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I’vs checked minute ago, still 5 tanneries, still +\- 350 income from each. Beta 1.4.2, only few mods like bannerpeasant, sound the alarm etc which are pretty safe
Tanneries are now hosed. Mine were all giving 30 a day. Prior to hotfix they were giving 400 a day. We need to find a balance here TW, war is expensive!
 
I'm sure you will make this nerf after the other perks have been implemented and not give us a **** show like the 25 day truce thing again right? Or have you learned nothing from that?

You realize that this is not helping anyone right? Mexxico is not singlehandedly responsible for everything that is wrong with the game, and actually spends time talking to people in the forum and trying to figure things out together with the players.
 
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