Combat skills leveling speed.

[Nakh]

Hello, comrades.

I'm set up an experiment, to determine, how many kills will it take to get 100 bow skill. I must thank my best friends ever, looters, by providing me with enough practice targets.

So, having main character with 10 starting bow skill it took 190 looter kills to get my bow skill up to level 100. Average arrow hits per kill is about 3, maybe 3.5, in large groups it was hard to hit exact looter several times in a row.

It also leveled my Athletics from 1 to 56 and 15 looters killed in melee leveled my one-handed skill from 1 to 26.

It took 19 in-game days and at least 2-3 real life hours doing only that (real life time was hard to measure, because I had to take pauses)

Results of this little experiment left me in frustration, since there is no way to level up combat skills at decent rate by normal gameplay means. In average battle it is possible to kill 3, maybe 4 enemies before it ends, so it will take 40 battles to get to pretty basic bow skill level. And twice as much to get to basic Athletics skill. Don't want to even think about leveling some combat skills to level 200 or higher, this will take insane amount of time.

What do you think about combat skills leveling rates, comrades?

 

[Apocal]

What do you think about combat skills leveling rates, comrades?

You didn't mention your number of attribute points in Control nor how many focus points you put into Bow specifically.

I think it is fine to go from being able to use only the worst bow to being able to use the best bow in the game in only 3 hours of playing and 40 bands of looters. The game is supposed to take well over a dozen hours per playthrough, even if you're rushing it, so getting something like 40% of the way through the skill points is fine. Especially since you were also able to level up secondary skills simultaneously.

 

[Nakh]

You didn't mention your number of attribute points in Control nor how many focus points you put into Bow specifically.

I think it is fine to go from being able to use only the worst bow to being able to use the best bow in the game in only 3 hours of playing and 40 bands of looters. The game is supposed to take well over a dozen hours per playthrough, even if you're rushing it, so getting something like 40% of the way through the skill points is fine. Especially since you were also able to level up secondary skills simultaneously.

I was at x6 multiplier most of time.

It is not 40%, it is about 10% of what you need to get to level 200, due to exponential grown of experience needed to level up.so it will take 20 hours only shooting to get to lvl 200. I don't feel it reasonable.

 

[Apocal]

It is not 40%, it is about 10% of what you need to get to level 200, due to exponential grown of experience needed to level up.so it will take 20 hours only shooting to get to lvl 200. I don't feel it reasonable.

Not XP, skill points. 100 skill points out of 250 is 40%. Although there are apparently up to 275 skill points, so it's more like 35%.

I think it is totally reasonable. If you don't want to dedicate to one combat skill that much, you don't lose out on anything. The only functioning perks (and relevant) perks in Bow are at 125. The only thing you get for grinding it harder is a bit more damage and maybe some additional accuracy (I don't notice it as much as I notice a better bow).

 

[Nakh]

Not XP, skill points. 100 skill points out of 250 is 40%. Although there are apparently up to 275 skill points, so it's more like 35%.

I think it is totally reasonable. If you don't want to dedicate to one combat skill that much, you don't lose out on anything. The only functioning perks (and relevant) perks in Bow are at 125. The only thing you get for grinding it harder is a bit more damage and maybe some additional accuracy (I don't notice it as much as I notice a better bow).

It is not about losing something from skill levels I never get. It is more about brutal limitation on skills and overall character progression, one of most important things in RPG games. not only for me, but for many many players. It take 400 batles with 4-5 kills to get to level 200 in bow skill, each battle will take, let's say 5 minutes. It will take 20 00 minutes, 33 hours, to grow up one skill. But I got you point, you think it is OK.

 

[paladinx333]

In average battle it is possible to kill 3, maybe 4 enemies before it ends

I have killed as many as 20 looters in one battle. There were 40 looters at the start of the battle and half of them fell to my infantry and crossbowmen before the others all turned tail and ran. I did not tell my men to advance and I told the crossbowmen to hold their fire. I rode behind the looters at close range and killed most of them with a single arrow to the back of the head. I was using stacked bodkin arrows and a noble bow.

You need to stop running on the ground like a peasant if you want to kill more looters per battle.

 

[meowwoofneigh]

Hello, comrades.

I'm set up an experiment, to determine, how many kills will it take to get 100 bow skill. I must thank my best friends ever, looters, by providing me with enough practice targets.

So, having main character with 10 starting bow skill it took 190 looter kills to get my bow skill up to level 100. Average arrow hits per kill is about 3, maybe 3.5, in large groups it was hard to hit exact looter several times in a row.

It also leveled my Athletics from 1 to 56 and 15 looters killed in melee leveled my one-handed skill from 1 to 26.

It took 19 in-game days and at least 2-3 real life hours doing only that (real life time was hard to measure, because I had to take pauses)

Results of this little experiment left me in frustration, since there is no way to level up combat skills at decent rate by normal gameplay means. In average battle it is possible to kill 3, maybe 4 enemies before it ends, so it will take 40 battles to get to pretty basic bow skill level. And twice as much to get to basic Athletics skill. Don't want to even think about leveling some combat skills to level 200 or higher, this will take insane amount of time.

What do you think about combat skills leveling rates, comrades?

I think the leveling rate for combat skills is not slow, but still a tedious grind. The devs should increase the exp gain for skills, especially for non-combat ones since some of them can really take forever to max even if you know how to get them.

 

[Lord Irontoe]

I have killed as many as 20 looters in one battle. There were 40 looters at the start of the battle and half of them fell to my infantry and crossbowmen before the others all turned tail and ran. I did not tell my men to advance and I told the crossbowmen to hold their fire. I rode behind the looters at close range and killed most of them with a single arrow to the back of the head. I was using stacked bodkin arrows and a noble bow.

You need to stop running on the ground like a peasant if you want to kill more looters per battle.

You were clearly using a late-game character if you had a Noble bow, so that's not really relevant to the OP who's trying to level an infantry character up from nothing. When you've got 20-30 athletics its hard to even reach the fighting before one side or the other starts running away. I used to try riding my horse up to the front lines and then dismounting there so I could get some athletics kills, but just in the time it would take to dismount, the enemies are already starting to break and run and I'm lucky to get 3 or 4 hits in before everyone's out of reach.

I started using a mod that lets me get full xp in tournaments and the arena and its a lot more fun. Once you get to around 100 Athletics, foot combat becomes a lot more satisfying. Full xp is probably a bit much, to be honest. You level fast in the arena since you're landing lots of hits every round, so I think a quarter to a third xp is probably a fair amount.

But generally, its pretty slow levelling overall and a lot slower when you're trying to play on foot.

 

[black_bulldog]

You were clearly using a late-game character if you had a Noble bow, so that's not really relevant to the OP who's trying to level an infantry character up from nothing. When you've got 20-30 athletics its hard to even reach the fighting before one side or the other starts running away. I used to try riding my horse up to the front lines and then dismounting there so I could get some athletics kills, but just in the time it would take to dismount, the enemies are already starting to break and run and I'm lucky to get 3 or 4 hits in before everyone's out of reach.

I started using a mod that lets me get full xp in tournaments and the arena and its a lot more fun. Once you get to around 100 Athletics, foot combat becomes a lot more satisfying. Full xp is probably a bit much, to be honest. You level fast in the arena since you're landing lots of hits every round, so I think a quarter to a third xp is probably a fair amount.

But generally, its pretty slow leveling overall and a lot slower when you're trying to play on foot.

Imho the full xp gains from tournaments are a must. Personally I don't care about the rewards as much as just leveling. It's strange that it's nerfed so much in Bannerlord because it was a consistent way to level up combat skills in Warband early on so you could be competitive.

 

[Lord Irontoe]

Imho the full xp gains from tournaments are a must. Personally I don't care about the rewards as much as just leveling. It's strange that it's nerfed so much in Bannerlord because it was a consistent way to level up combat skills in Warband early on so you could be competitive.

Yeah, I'm a bit torn about the proper xp rate for arenas. Full xp is probably fine for tournaments since they're a bit limited, but the practice fights at full xp make it very fast to level up since you can do them over and over again. I like that rate, personally, but its probably too fast to be the default. It was fine in Warband where you got a fraction of the xp, but the proficiency gains were the same as in battles. You could spend a half hour in the arena in the beginning of the game and get your proficiencies up to a decent level before striking out into the world. Now that the proficiencies are what actually level you up, its probably a bit too easy to get a lot of levels just grinding the arena at full xp.

 

[Nakh]

Yeah, I'm a bit torn about the proper xp rate for arenas. Full xp is probably fine for tournaments since they're a bit limited, but the practice fights at full xp make it very fast to level up since you can do them over and over again. I like that rate, personally, but its probably too fast to be the default. It was fine in Warband where you got a fraction of the xp, but the proficiency gains were the same as in battles. You could spend a half hour in the arena in the beginning of the game and get your proficiencies up to a decent level before striking out into the world. Now that the proficiencies are what actually level you up, its probably a bit too easy to get a lot of levels just grinding the arena at full xp.

I don't see why player can't level up skills on arena, it is don't have any meaningful impact on main game. Even if one will have all combat skill grinded to 200, so what? 1 or two more soldiers killed personally every battle? Is this important from balance perspective?

 

[mserhatbalik]

Slow progression is okay if the game was stable and it was getting patches every 6 months. But well, you might try tweaks mod to ramp skill gain by X5.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

There's so much wrong in this topic lol.
First, here's my real concerns for Bow skill: Bow skill doesn't raise enough from difficult shots! The tool tip says it does, but it don't be. You mostly get it from the damage and because the damage is reduced at extra long distance, extra hard shots are less rewarding then normal "shoot da blob" attacks. Secondly, Bow is a bit slow, likely because it uses the same skill/damage calculations as other stuff even though it does less damage per shot. For instance if I have 7 control and 5 FP in Bow and 4 endurance and 3 FP in riding, if I shoot from a immobile horse at approaching enemy blobs I get about twice as much riding skill as I do Bow. Now it could be Bow is okay and Riding is too fast, I don't know but it bothers me that even if I try to focus on Bow it fall far behind Riding!

But to be more on OP's concern, Bannerlord doesn't seem to be designed as a "get my character ready and then start" kind of RPG. Your character is pretty good at everything fresh out of the box and building them up more is intended to be game-long process. So, yes it will take hundreds of battles and 30+ hours to reach high levels in a combat skill. It's a rough transition from Warband which is ripe and rewarding for quickly building your character to give you a particular advantage, although you starting character is kind of a ***** and needs skills seriously cranked up before you go to war. Bannerlord you not only don't have to build up your character at the start, but you actually can't build up some traditionally important skills such as Surgery in a timely manner. I'm all for a revamp of passive skills, so that we can get high surgery and other support skills quickly, but this might just be the way it is and we have to accept it just isn't designed to build you char up at the start.

You were clearly using a late-game character if you had a Noble bow

They probably got married for one, that's what I do ASAP.

 

[Nakh]

Well, all RPG's about story. Now we have story about useless moron, who don't know anything about any trade or combat skills by age of 30 and with this slow leveling it will be story about useless moron died of old age still not learned how to hold bow and sword properly, despite personal involvement in hundreds of battles.

 

[Lord Irontoe]

They probably got married for one, that's what I do ASAP.

They still needed at least 90 bow skill to use it, so definitely not a starting character.

But to be more on OP's concern, Bannerlord doesn't seem to be designed as a "get my character ready and then start" kind of RPG. Your character is pretty good at everything fresh out of the box and building them up more is intended to be game-long process. So, yes it will take hundreds of battles and 30+ hours to reach high levels in a combat skill. It's a rough transition from Warband which is ripe and rewarding for quickly building your character to give you a particular advantage, although you starting character is kind of a ***** and needs skills seriously cranked up before you go to war. Bannerlord you not only don't have to build up your character at the start, but you actually can't build up some traditionally important skills such as Surgery in a timely manner. I'm all for a revamp of passive skills, so that we can get high surgery and other support skills quickly, but this might just be the way it is and we have to accept it just isn't designed to build you char up at the start.

I think maybe Taleworlds intended for it to take multiple lifetimes for you to get to high levels so that maybe your grandchildren will be able to get those final perks. The problem is that's just not fun at all and it feels like your progression is hamstrung from the beginning. At least there are mods that will increase the xp rates.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Well, all RPG's about story. Now we have story about useless moron, who don't know anything about any trade or combat skills by age of 30 and with this slow leveling it will be story about useless moron died of old age still not learned how to hold bow and sword properly, despite personal involvement in hundreds of battles.

Didn't you hear the story about the useless moron who single handedly wiped out the entire continent? I had like 220 ish bow and 305 riding by the end.

 

[KingEroc1st]

my friend there are 2 major flaws here.
1) being your attribute and focus points heavily affecting experience intake
2) being experience is granted for hits, not kills so it doesn't matter how many kills but rather how many hits. and for hits i think its based on damage/velocity so a headshot from point blank that did 120 damage with 70m/s speed would give more exp than a foot shot from 100m away doing 10 dmg at 30m/s.

 

[paladinx333]

Adding on to my last post, leveling archery works best when you are on horseback. Even using a hunting bow and normal arrows it is way easier to get kills because of the mobility a horse affords.

I start off every new game by getting a low level bow and hiring a Vlandian squire or two. These guys kind of suck, so while they are faffing about with the looters, I am lurking nearby with my trusty bow, killing the looters that the squires are unable to hit. I usually get most of the kills and my bow skill rises very rapidly. Eventually the squires get a few kills and level up, but by that time I have 50 archery or so.

Stay mounted if you are trying to grind up some archery skill. There will be plenty of time to run around like peasant after you have mastered the bow. I hope this will clarify my earlier comments.

 

[geala]

I find it extremely annoying to use "special tactics" to level/grind something, an any game. Before I do this I take an editor and change the numbers. I'm glad that the Bannerlord player char can fight from the beginning well to a certain degree, so no special grind is necessary. Given the stories during char creation it would be absurd not to be able.

In my opinion combat skills are not that important, so that a slow increase is ok, except for bows and horses where the game sadly has hard caps. It is borderline stupid (or beyond the border ...) that you cannot mount certain horses standing around on the battlefield cause you "don't fulfil the requirement". I'd wish such RPG crap were not in this game.

Edit: btw, I'm for full xp from the arena and tournaments.

 

[Nakh]

my friend there are 2 major flaws here.
1) being your attribute and focus points heavily affecting experience intake
2) being experience is granted for hits, not kills so it doesn't matter how many kills but rather how many hits. and for hits i think its based on damage/velocity so a headshot from point blank that did 120 damage with 70m/s speed would give more exp than a foot shot from 100m away doing 10 dmg at 30m/s.

I had about 6x training multiplier for both bow and athletics. It took 3 -3.5 hits on average to kill looter.

Didn't you hear the story about the useless moron who single handedly wiped out the entire continent? I had like 220 ish bow and 305 riding by the end.

Well you played whole game with bow in your hands and still don't have top perk, you think it is reasonable? How long it took both in in-game time and real time? How about other combat skills, do you have some melee leveled?