Battle Spawn Points Need to Change Dynamically

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mserhatbalik

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In some huge battles where the numbers are close to or against our favour, we always need to use the terrain to our advantage. The problem with that is when people start dying and if our current position is in exact opposite direction of our initial spawn point, then the new soldiers start to spawn behind enemy lines and they get slaughtered until they reach to your army.

This is also true for the enemy army, and you can kill all their freshly spawned units with cavalry if you can manage to find their initial spawn point during battle.

I think both armies' spawn point should change according to the majority of their units' position during battle or maybe according to another rule, but I think something has to be done about current system to improve both immersion and balance.

Anyway, great game overall. Thanks for all the hardwork and frequent patches up to this point. Good luck.
 
This issue definitely needs more attention.

In simulation, whenever the enemy army decides to hold their ground rather than charging to mine, I have to move my entire army to them in order to attack. But that's exactly where the enemy troops spawn. And the spawn point for my troops is on the other side of the map.
 
If the enemy won't come to me I ride over myself and shoot them with arrows. Once a few of their troops are down they generally go on the attack.
This is very silly of course.
 
To make big battles good they need:

1) Make formation based battles, not a single unit based. For example instead of "infantry\cavalry\archers" It should be right wing\left wing\vanguard\
rearguard\main core. And you can choose your right wing and order them to atack enemy left wing.
2) Constant spawns. If one unit dies - it should be replaced immediately
3) Spawn points for formations should be right in this formations. Not somewhere else, but right in the formation.

It will make battles look like a battles with tactic battleranks and structure. Right now it is chaotic mess withstream of running troops like this:
 
It's definitely an issue, especially when your troops are under AI control and you can't actively direct the battle.

I've seen several proposed fixes for this, and all of them had merit in some form. I personally like the idea of troops projecting from some area of the red zone and heading to your main army. Sure, this begs the question of whether or not this would be exploitable, but no solution would be perfectly sound.

Furthermore, from a strategic standpoint, would it NOT be smarter to send a small group to tackle reinforcements before they reach the main body and thus further solidify your chance to bring down your enemy? Or, from the opposite side, rallying the troops to a spot to meet up with the reinforcements before beginning the attack again?

No matter the choice made on how to fix this, it definitely needs fixed, because it lends to a frustrating and rather uncontrollably annoying issue in battle.
 
This issue definitely needs more attention.

In simulation, whenever the enemy army decides to hold their ground rather than charging to mine, I have to move my entire army to them in order to attack. But that's exactly where the enemy troops spawn. And the spawn point for my troops is on the other side of the map.
The enemy tactics in a nut shell. Stay at their spawn point and wait for you to come to them (This hasn't changed from Warband). If you didn't it would be a very long "battle". Irritates me. Then their reinforcements spawn behind your troops and begin to slaughter them. All while your troops are running from the other side of the universe.
Worse when you are riding around poking people and their reinforcements spawn right under your feet, stopping you dead. Literally, dead.
I would be happy them just spawning from the red zone.
Same with sieges, defenders should spawn from the keep or something. They always spawn on me while I hack them from behind.
 
Furthermore, from a strategic standpoint, would it NOT be smarter to send a small group to tackle reinforcements before they reach the main body and thus further solidify your chance to bring down your enemy? Or, from the opposite side, rallying the troops to a spot to meet up with the reinforcements before beginning the attack again?

The reasoning behind reinforcements mechanic is tied to game engine's limitation. If we had the capability to deploy all our units at once without any performance hit then there would be no problems at all.

So we shouldn't look at this mechanic as "reinforcements" but the developer's workaround for game engine's incapability.

I'm fine with that workaround as long as it makes sense.
 
Can someone explain what the benefit is of having a single engagement with reinforcements rather than a series of engagements without reinforcements?
 
Can someone explain what the benefit is of having a single engagement with reinforcements rather than a series of engagements without reinforcements?
You will spend much less time on running.

Right now you spend time like this:

45% of time -running to enemy
45% - chasing few guys who dont want to give up
10% actual fighting.

Imagine you need to run to enemies and chasing one of this guys 10 times in a row.
 
They need a better system for the spawn point and system in general. Maybe break it down or have user control over when and what will spawn (assuming criteria are met).
 
To make big battles good they need:
1) Make formation based battles, not a single unit based. For example instead of "infantry\cavalry\archers" It should be right wing\left wing\vanguard\
rearguard\main core. And you can choose your right wing and order them to atack enemy left wing.
you are absolutely right!
but!
how do you think the current AI architecture is compatible with such a system. from what can be seen in the game, the AI is so primitive in the battle that the more primitive is quite difficult to do. AI behavior in battles is my main disappointment in bannerlord. they just repeated what was in the warband. to fix AI to its normal state - you just need to throw the current system and write everything from scratch.
we must have detachments, many detachments, the detachments must have local commanders, they must not randomly rush about the battlefield, they must have prepared strategic methods, there must be a basic general strategy for the entire army which commanders obey. Including the placement of reinforcement points. Formations should work as expected and weapons should work as expected in particular spears.
 
AI behavior in battles is my main disappointment in bannerlord. they just repeated what was in the warband.
No. It is different and much worse.

In WB AI will atack, if he is stronger, and defend if he is weaker.

But AI will never do things like this:
 
You will spend much less time on running.

Right now you spend time like this:

45% of time -running to enemy
45% - chasing few guys who dont want to give up
10% actual fighting.

Imagine you need to run to enemies and chasing one of this guys 10 times in a row.
I'd prefer a working but tedious system over a broken one. Just my opinion. I'll have to look into removing reinforcements through modding.
 
I don;t know how but it definitely needs improvement.
I feel currently only the first wave engagement feels good and then it all become a big mess. I think it might also have something to do with the AI behavior and the advance command.
 
The reasoning behind reinforcements mechanic is tied to game engine's limitation. If we had the capability to deploy all our units at once without any performance hit then there would be no problems at all.

So we shouldn't look at this mechanic as "reinforcements" but the developer's workaround for game engine's incapability.

I'm fine with that workaround as long as it makes sense.

Indeed that is the case, so whether you choose the moniker of "reinforcements", or "additional troops", or "limitation management", the issue is that currently, they often tend to spawn on top of one's party, instead of entering the battle from some pre-determined point. My argument was that I would like to see some place set up for this, because that opens an extra layer of strategy to allow for competent players to send a group of soldiers to intercept the "reinforcements" before they can reach the main body.

Similarly, if you have "reinforcements" approaching the battlefield, it would be equally wise to fall back and rally with them rather than just letting them free run across the battlefield and potentially be picked off. At this point, the AI doesn't have the level of detail to make those decisions for themselves anyway, so the topic I bring up is moot at the current point.

All I speak of is the strategic playstyles that could be incorporated with that pre-determined "spawn point". If the system were not limited to having to manage how many troops were on screen at one time, the "appearance" of random troops would not be an issue.

But, it is, so a managed system for the introduction of these additional troops would be nice to avoid the clustering that takes place now, often causing random death due to the AI confusion when troops suddenly appear in their area of influence and start massacring troops that realistically should be able to hold out better.
 
I think that battles should be formation based.

And troops should spawn 1 by 1 in the middle of this formations:
1) Player will not see it, becoue they will spawn deep in the formation
2) they cant spawn on someones head.
3) Simulation of nonstop battle.
 
I think that battles should be formation based.

And troops should spawn 1 by 1 in the middle of this formations:
1) Player will not see it, becoue they will spawn deep in the formation
2) they cant spawn on someones head.
3) Simulation of nonstop battle.
What a brilliant idea! Killing all the atmosphere and immersion for making the game easier. Reinforcement system makes it look more authentic. Atleast as much as it could be. I would rather dynamic reinforcement spawn points always behind the main body. AI definitely needs improvement but I had no struggle so far to keep my boys in line.
 
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