Just your Daily CCP Thread

[King_Arthur253]

I totally agree with Eddie.
Trolling and intentionally provoking should have no place in a game. Lets be honest, none of these are genuine political discussions but rather more of an "in your face" nature. They serve to provoke, not to have a civil discussion. I have no idea why people would defend these sadistic actions and justify them as "ok" under the guise of free speech. There are exceptions to free speech, especially when we are talking about a game. These remarks does nothing to add to the fun of gameplay.
If the chinese admins reported this as cheating, they have overstepped their boundaries. Subsequently, the people who were banned probably deserved a time out from the game. Please stop using "lets stop censorship" as a guise to say trolling is ok.

I am in complete support of making clear regulations of in-game chat. Some things just don't have a place in games.

Btw, firstly, Chinese plz explain why Wuhan virus will be a racism word to you guys, but on the other hand Spanish Flu is not a racism word to Spanish, Hong Kong Feet is not a racism word to Hong Kongers?
Secondly, don't define any words as a racism to you for protecting yourself. I've seen it happened many times already.

Because no one is naming themselves Spanish Flu or Hong Kong Feet with intentions to troll Spanish people or Hong Kong people

 

[沙普尔]

So, if there has some real racism evidences, then others that proving chinese mods abusing power is untrushable?
Especially OPs of those threads are arguing about banned by Steam ID/avatar?
What you are doing is putting the focus away from those OPs point.

Why do you all like to go to extremes? When he says that these people are wrong, does he mean that the other are right?

 

[eddiemccandless]

So, if there has some real racism evidences, then others that proving chinese mods abusing power is untrushable?
Especially OPs of those threads are arguing about banned by Steam ID/avatar?
What you are doing is putting the focus away from those OPs point.

It makes me doubt the motivation behind all of this. I will make you a deal, let's remove the racial slurs from the evidence folder, and let's add a statement on the initial post that says that all kinds of racial insult and discrimination is fully deserving of punishment. Then let's ask for clarity from Taleworlds based on what is left. I will have your back then.

I simply don't understand why anyone would want those screenshots in there unless they are trying to push for that kind of talk being allowed. It only hurts their credibility.

 

[SandpitTurtle]

It's not much to go on in order to prove ones innocence. However, I do believe it's suspicious how it's stated: ''Cheat involvement''.
Not because there aren't hacks as that's granted for every popular game, even if Mount & Blade has been blessed with fewer than others, but because a proper english-speaking person would simply write cheating, hacking, etc. It's either been translated, or the responsible person isn't a good english-speaker. The only sensible use of the word involvement would be if it's the cheat developer him/herself, but that'd be almost impossible to know. Now, again, TaleWorlds has Turkish developers who might not be excellent english-speakers either, but I really hope TW is honest about who's got ban permissions.

i agree with you.
the first banned was issued through Chinese form that reported as political ID
but we dont know if TW did found this player cheating after review his log
(theres several bans given on the file provided all issued as cheating)
also TW says that the reported were given and issued as in "good faith" which lead us think that might be something still going on on the 2nd banned

however we dont know how the second ban issued but from the picture provided by the same user
i already provided the steam ID to MOD hope them can find out what happened.
and hopefully TW can give us some insight if his cheating or not (not just the problem have been solved)
as we dont like to be falsely accused something we are not.

 

[mikelao9374]

I totally agree with Eddie.
Trolling and intentionally provoking should have no place in a game. Lets be honest, none of these are genuine political discussions but rather more of an "in your face" nature. They serve to provoke, not to have a civil discussion. I have no idea why people would defend these sadistic actions and justify them as "ok" under the guise of free speech. There are exceptions to free speech, especially when we are talking about a game. These remarks does nothing to add to the fun of gameplay.
If the chinese admins reported this as cheating, they have overstepped their boundaries. Subsequently, the people who were banned probably deserved a time out from the game. Please stop using "lets stop censorship" as a guise to say trolling is ok.

I am in complete support of making clear regulations of in-game chat. Some things just don't have a place in games.

In common sense, I agree; but in this case I'm not.
Firstly, since Taleworlds still don't publish any multiplayer policy, only the obvious racism that global citizen recognized and the cheater should be ban.
Secondly, banning a guy with reason "Cheating" but the player was actually banned because having a sensitive steam ID/avatar to Chinese is totally not acceptable. Meanwhile chinese mods are abusing their authority to all servers.

 

[mikelao9374]

It makes me doubt the motivation behind all of this. I will make you a deal, let's remove the racial slurs from the evidence folder, and let's add a statement on the initial post that says that all kinds of racial insult and discrimination is fully deserving of punishment. Then let's ask for clarity from Taleworlds based on what is left. I will have your back then.

I simply don't understand why anyone would want those screenshots in there unless they are trying to push for that kind of talk being allowed. It only hurts their credibility.

I am not sure why you are so stubborn on "motivation". Right is right, wrong is wrong. The wrong thing won't become right when someone really have "motivation".

 

[eddiemccandless]

I am not sure why you are so stubborn on "motivation". Right is right, wrong is wrong. The wrong thing won't become right when someone really have "motivation".

And yet here we are, mixing things that might be right with things that are obviously wrong, and calling for a global pardon on all of them .

 

[mikelao9374]

And yet here we are, mixing things that might be right with things that are obviously wrong, and calling for a global pardon on all of them .

Hey watch your word, they don't ask for global pardon on all of them, they just want the whole story why someone got banned when he is not cheating.
DON'T PUT YOUR OWN WORD INTO OTHER'S MOUTH.

Btw, you are the guy I think having "motivation" tho.

 

[沙普尔]

I said that for 2 reasons. Firstly, players in an online game should are not school kids. Players should be allowed to do or say things that isn't always right. Mild insults/ toxic behaviour should not encouraged, but players should not be banned because of this. Imagine your government starts putting impolite citizens to jail.

But more importantly, it is hard to define what kind of speech is "racism, insults, toxic" and what isn't. Who could define the definition of racism? Saying corona virus comes from China could trigger many Chinese as they see this as racism.

If we easily ban players under the name of racism, toxic, it will lead to endless conflicts among the community (admin abuse, players disagree with admin decision etc). Internet is not a utopian. People should stay from the internet if they cannot deal with hostility.

Those speech should not be encouraged, but we should not ban them.

they don't ask for global pardon on all of them, they just want the whole story why someone got banned when he is not cheating.

 

[King_Arthur253]

Firstly, since Taleworlds still don't publish any multiplayer policy, only the obvious racism that global citizen recognized and the cheater should be ban.

Forum rules is a good place to start. A mp server that is privately owned has been blacklisted before for racism (59th_Jailbreak). I don't believe see how individual players are above the law.

Secondly, banning a guy with reason "Cheating"

not acceptable

having a sensitive steam ID/avatar to Chinese is totally not acceptable. Meanwhile chinese mods are abusing their authority to all servers.

Many of those people with sensitive steam ID/avatar were banned for far more than that, whether hurling racial slurs or openly mocking Chinese people as a whole. A name called Chinese Virus is borderline... the intentions are pretty clear -- just to infuriate. Can't imagine why else someone would name themselves that. No one should be banned for Winnie the Pooh avatars though.
Define all servers.. I have yet to see them ban anyone on NA or EU. Of course, I am not 100% sure.


The forum rules clearly state:
This is an open, friendly community, that is the central point for those seeking information or assistance for our games. We will not tolerate any forms of flaming, trolling, or harassment. This includes, but is not limited to, deliberately trying to provoke an argument (flame-baiting), personal insults, and verbal attacks. If you disagree with what someone has said, debate the point, not the person. Harassment of other users will not be tolerated either; this relates to PM-harassment or harassment by constantly insulting users across multiple threads, in-game, other platforms, or by making disparaging comments that have no content relevant to the topic/discussion.

Seems like a name so explicitly named as "Chinese Wuhan Virus" is used to flame-bait without any potential for civil discussion.

 

[Gunslinger1127]

Forum rules is a good place to start. A mp server that is privately owned has been blacklisted before for racism (59th_Jailbreak). I don't believe see how individual players are above the law.


not acceptable


Many of those people with sensitive steam ID/avatar were banned for far more than that, whether hurling racial slurs or openly mocking Chinese people as a whole. A name called Chinese Virus is borderline... the intentions are pretty clear -- just to infuriate. Can't imagine why else someone would name themselves that. No one should be banned for Winnie the Pooh avatars though.
Define all servers.. I have yet to see them ban anyone on NA or EU. Of course, I am not 100% sure.


The forum rules clearly state:
This is an open, friendly community, that is the central point for those seeking information or assistance for our games. We will not tolerate any forms of flaming, trolling, or harassment. This includes, but is not limited to, deliberately trying to provoke an argument (flame-baiting), personal insults, and verbal attacks. If you disagree with what someone has said, debate the point, not the person. Harassment of other users will not be tolerated either; this relates to PM-harassment or harassment by constantly insulting users across multiple threads, in-game, other platforms, or by making disparaging comments that have no content relevant to the topic/discussion.

Seems like a name so explicitly named as "Chinese Wuhan Virus" is used to flame-bait without any potential for civil discussion.

Look in previous posts Community support person said they do not ban for speech fourm rules do not apply ingame. The game code of conduct ( Which has none) Is different from the fourms Code of conduct with your logic, I can't insult anyone on the classic warband game even though insulting players in that game for being bad and stuff is half the fun.

 

[Emil]

@Emil, I would love to hear your take on this (no irony intended, I really would). If the evidence provided only included screenshots of people talking about political subjects my view would be a little different. But it seems that racial slurs are being actively defended to me. Which is what I have a problem with.

I don't think the individuals in that certain picture are banned since it reads potential death list, but they might be. Either way, you're asking of my opinion. I don't think someone should get banned for mentioning corona. We do actually censor the ''chin*'' word in the NRP discord server.
However, if the word is comparable to, let's say ''britbong'' or ''swedistan'', then I'd stand divided between it being racism or just an insult.
If racism, then yes a ban would've been justified, as for how long, that's up for debate. 2 weeks perhaps? 10 years maybe not.
If insult, then no. I'd recommend any hurt players to use the mute function and tell them to wish for a chat filter for Christmas.

 

[eddiemccandless]

I don't think the individuals in that certain picture are banned since it reads potential death list, but they might be. Either way, you're asking of my opinion. I don't think someone should get banned for mentioning corona. We do censor the ''chin*'' word in the NRP discord server.
However, if the word is comparable to, let's say ''britbong'' or ''swedistan'', then I'd stand divided between it being racism or just an insult.

Agreed on the corona virus, and also on life bans for a one time behavior (by the way, I read the link in your signature and I find it very sensible).

For the other term, if you go look it up on Wikipedia it is considered a racial slur (I am referring specifically to the third highlighted chat entry in that screenshot).

 

[King_Arthur253]

Look in previous posts Community support person said they do not ban for speech fourm rules do not apply ingame. The game code of conduct ( Which has none) Is different from the fourms Code of conduct with your logic, I can't insult anyone on the classic warband game even though insulting players in that game for being bad and stuff is half the fun.

They simply aren't posted. Common sense applies here. For example, since game code of conduct is empty, does that mean I can team kill all my teammates and leave at the start of the game? In addition, none of the popular Warband servers are owned by Taleworlds and are considered private property. Not to mention that they have enforced harsh punishments on previous servers where racism has occurred.

 

[Younes]

10 years ban is not appropriate nonetheless

 

[Orion]

Let's make one thing perfectly clear here, folks. This thread has remained open solely because a TW employee is utilizing it to interface with the people who believe they were unjustly banned. Continued access to post in this thread is not free license to shame or flame other users on this forum. I'm no fan of China either, but the rules of this forum apply to all. Keep your mudslinging and political crusading out of this thread or you will be barred from posting in it. Making new threads about this topic while this one remains open will be met with disciplinary action.

 

[JD2105]

Jeez this post blew up overnight. I have skimmed through all of the comments and I figured I would clear up a few declarations made by others about my position. Currently as many of you stated, there is not a set of rules currently for multiplayer servers, this is a problem. Players do not know what the bans are for and what they can be banned for and for how long the ban will last.

Secondly, it is not racist to have the name "CCP Virus" or etc, nor is it racist to be a troll. Obviously overt racist messages could and should be bannable, but the issue currently is many of these reports are being given as "cheating" and the user is banned for extensive periods only to have access restored late, affecting their ability to play the game they have paid for. Arguably, until they release an actual set of rules and expected behaviors and implement a proper ban system, they should hold off on going ban crazy, especially if the previous bans had been given in "good faith" of the Chinese moderators reports, which again we can see are reported as cheating. Even trolling/provoking others should not be bannable unless the trolling involves purposefully losing games, overt racism, etc. And even in such cases where someone is just re-posting racist flag words, a chat ban should be the first step implemented. Sure, some of the players may actually be cheating but based on the information we have seen, and the lack of transparency involving bans on TW's servers, it is hard to believe all of the bans given so far are just.

About politics in this game, before any of this came up, I would have been happy just enjoying the game myself and would have never brought anything politically related to these forums. This is just something that raises concerns for me as an owner of the product. What if I take a vacation and wish to play bannerlord multiplayer overseas on my laptop and end up wrongfully banned for 10+ years from ALL multiplayer servers? Being right wing or left wing has absolutely nothing to do with this situation, and this is NOT an attempt to be racist or inflammatory towards anyone. This is just about wishing we can get some transparency on the ban system so we players can know what to expect.

The first step for TW would be to implement a multiplayer code of conduct, as well as a simple report function in which players make the reports and can tag up to a few reasons and include evidence. They should not be handing out such extensive bans to players who had no idea what rules TW expects, especially considering the game is still in early access.

Ultimately, I will continue to raise awareness about this issue until we can get some transparency on the matter, and the faster we can get TW to fix their multiplayer ban systems, the less likely it will be a problem in the future. I will say this again, I absolutely love this game and not playing it due to "bad faith" actions from the devs is the last thing I would want to happen. Hopefully everyone here regardless of what you think personally of the evidence can agree that more transparency and a new ban system would likely fix all of the issues everyone has brought up here. It can help limit toxicity of the chat (as some Chinese users here have said they personally have experienced) and help clear up the legitimacy of the bans being reported on the EA servers.

 

[Orion]

TW have admitted that the 10-year bans were a mistake. There is no point in using that as a point of argument anymore.

 

[JD2105]

The 10 year ban is the whole point of the argument. Again the issue is of transparency and the same user who was banned before claims to have been banned again. I'm not saying every ban is illegitimate but its obvious TW has not provided any evidence other than statements. The 10+ year number is absolutely still relevant, in fact its pretty much the basis of the whole issue, the fact that the 10+ year bans were admitted to be a mistake yet we have no idea of plans to be implemented to fix that, or if they have already been implemented and we have no idea.

As one of the other moderators stated on the first page of this thread:

"We would like to apologize for any inconvenience caused in this issue. A handful of accounts were reported to us as posting links to cheats in Chinese. As we do not speak the language, we decided to temporarily issue bans while we were looking into the cases. In all cases, we have resolved the situation in less than a week and we have lifted all unwarranted bans. We have no bans for political speech and all decisions for bans are taken by TaleWorlds administrators after reviewing evidence."

The bans were handled in "good faith" as they do not understand Chinese, yet somehow after a fuss is raised they can understand the evidence and then the bans are just lifted or reduced? If they do not understand the evidence, no ban should be given until the team is 100% sure of the legitimacy of the reports. The problem is why they were given in the first place, especially for a ban related to "cheating" which appears to be a ban of 10 years. Sorry Orion, but you are wrong here, unless you have some information you have not shared yet and in that case I would love to know about it.

 

[YKH]

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These pictures are from the post that Chinese players report improper remarks to the administrator of China Forum

These "players" with insulting IDs are usually at a low level and deliberately provoke trouble

Are these players here to play games? No, they just want to destroy the environment of the game. They disturb the Chinese players who really want to play the game. After angering them, they take the screenshots that are good for them and get this forum as evidence