Talworlds Updates Are Brutal

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Day 67 and I voted for myself for my first town and got it with all the influence I gained just beating lords, taking out said town garrison by myself and every lord that tried to stop me.
You do good you get what you want.
You don't gotta do nothin but beat em up.


The problem I see though is that they are completely demolishing every approach to the game that is not fighting parties and selling loot. I am really not a fan of that. Just as an example, in earlier patches being a merchant was maybe slightly subpar when compared to fighting, but it was a perfectly respectable way to make money. Now if you do it you are really just gimping yourself.
 
The problem I see though is that they are completely demolishing every approach to the game that is not fighting parties and selling loot. I am really not a fan of that. Just as an example, in earlier patches being a merchant was maybe slightly subpar when compared to fighting, but it was a perfectly respectable way to make money. Now if you do it you are really just gimping yourself.
I wonder if it's a different team or individual working on the trade related stuff because there have been many and fast fixes to very minor exploits of trading and generous prices, while only one reduction to battle loot (less war horses?) I can recall. I also know they've said that AI lord depend on battle loot to maintain their parties and grow. So maybe they're not messing with loot because it'l make even more naked and alone lords.
My gripe in this topic is more about the charge that less influence for prisoner donations causes any difficulty in the early game, where I find money and influence both in abundance still (on hardest setting too).
 
I wonder if it's a different team or individual working on the trade related stuff because there have been many and fast fixes to very minor exploits of trading and generous prices, while only one reduction to battle loot (less war horses?) I can recall. I also know they've said that AI lord depend on battle loot to maintain their parties and grow. So maybe they're not messing with loot because it'l make even more naked and alone lords.
My gripe in this topic is more about the charge that less influence for prisoner donations causes any difficulty in the early game, where I find money and influence both in abundance still (on hardest setting too).

Right, I don't think anyone really thinks that making money and getting influence is that difficult (I don't at least). I do have a problem with being tunneled into only one viable way to play the game though.
 
I agree with the prisoner nerf. They gave way too much influence. The scaling is still off though and lower tier troops should give a lot less while higher tier (and especially nobles) a lot more. It needs to be commensurate with contribution overall though. Large battles and sieges still give too little comparatively.

Anyway, hopefully they stop the zombie lord endless respawn stuff that allows influence farming (and prisoner farming) to exist. In a few hours you can have a dungeon with hundreds of troops.
 
Oh good, just another "how hard this game is" without even try learn a bit about It. You can get 400-800 with Tannery Workshops in almost every town which I find pretty OP. Caravans can easily give you +1000 daily. Manual trading gives a huge amount of money if you buy iron in some Battania villages and sell the Iron in Ocs Hall (there are more towns which pay a lot for Iron too).

While the donate prisioners option has been overnerfed and I do not bother with donate prisioners anymore, It is still pretty doable to get influence in this game. I started some days ago a campaign playing as Sturgia Vassal and I have +1700 influence on day +700 and no other clan is even close to It.

The game is currently too easy and It is extremely easy to get rich pretty soon. Please try to learn some things before complaining about it

You shouldn’t be forced into a single play style to be viable or follow a strict build or guide. This is supposed to be a sandbox rpg.
 
Seems to me you are playing the game wrong. My lowest income workshop is 605 daily. They did a big nerf to influence yes, but it was way to OP, i was getting 60 influence each day before the nerf and that was just passive, along with prisoners it was easily more influence income then i could spend on armies and votes. And it may get some more tweaks.
Tell me which workshop you start for maximum income and in which town?
 
Pottery in Pen Cannoc is making me 60 denars tops a day. And the food levels of the town are 0 with a -13 change. Food level is nerfed because of prosperity but the prosperity of the town is good in my view? So I am baffled. Clay is worth half as much as the finished product and there are three clay villages supplying. This is only day 80 and Pen Cannoc has not been sieged nor has its villages been raided.
 
So this is the 3rd or 4th update in a row that has caused me some concern. They're even talking about it on Youtube. First it was the reduction of workshop income, now it's the reduction to 1/20 (one twentieth!) of the influence gained when you give prisoners to your faction. For those who don't remember, that's about the only reasonable way to get paid as a mercenary (which is essentially how you slog through the first half of the game in their current single player mode) because your income is based entirely on your influence. And it drops every day too!

What is going on? I've put down this game until someone at Taleworlds figures out their head from their ass because at this point it's unplayable. The best workshop in the game manages to get me 30 silver after paying about 16000. On top of that, I can't even progress to having a chance of lordship until I finish this stupid clan leveling, which now is next to impossible thanks to yet more changes!

What is going on?! Can we just play the damn game?
The people in charge of Balance in TW is too much in love with nerfs, they'll keep ruining the game before it becomes "balanced" for a while yet. Best advice I can give is to simply cheat, cheat back everything they took from you with poorly thought nerfs, or simply just enable cheat mode + use console mod and cheat blatantly to achieve points in the game you want to fiddle with. Don't bother trying to have fun with it, the overall experience in this EA is everything but fun. Sure, we have some cool moments, but for the game to really get going we still need a ****-ton of missing content, and a more reasonable balancing that doesn't consist on masochist preferences
 
I think you're just a **** player, and quite likely even a worse reader, since you missed two big letters when purchasing the game. On top of that I can't wait until the changes will be so big the previous savegames won't work and your campaign goes to bits and you'll come to the forums raging.

This ladies and gentlemen is the post of someone so angry at his personal life he has to go online and be a dink on forums. Not exactly a rare breed but it is what it is. So what is it Kulgrinda? Wife cheating on you? Can’t even get a wife, or even a girlfriend? Lost your job?
 
Kulgrinda Košmarjus said:
I think you're just a **** player, and quite likely even a worse reader, since you missed two big letters when purchasing the game. On top of that I can't wait until the changes will be so big the previous savegames won't work and your campaign goes to bits and you'll come to the forums raging.

This ladies and gentlemen is the post of someone so angry at his personal life he has to go online and be a dink on forums. Not exactly a rare breed but it is what it is. So what is it Kulgrinda? Wife cheating on you? Can’t even get a wife, or even a girlfriend? Lost your job?

Please can we try to be a little bit more civil it's just a disagreement about a game there is literally zero need for this unpleasantness.
 
So this is the 3rd or 4th update in a row that has caused me some concern. They're even talking about it on Youtube. First it was the reduction of workshop income, now it's the reduction to 1/20 (one twentieth!) of the influence gained when you give prisoners to your faction. For those who don't remember, that's about the only reasonable way to get paid as a mercenary (which is essentially how you slog through the first half of the game in their current single player mode) because your income is based entirely on your influence. And it drops every day too!

What is going on? I've put down this game until someone at Taleworlds figures out their head from their ass because at this point it's unplayable. The best workshop in the game manages to get me 30 silver after paying about 16000. On top of that, I can't even progress to having a chance of lordship until I finish this stupid clan leveling, which now is next to impossible thanks to yet more changes!

What is going on?! Can we just play the damn game?

You clearly need to play more and actually learn the game, you didnt even get the "best workshop in the game" part right. This is a sandbox, it does not hold your hand to a "best way" or "most profitable way" to play...you have to actually FIND IT and most wont because they become easily locked into a set style that suits them personally which is the way its supposed to be in a sandbox. You, create your way to play.

Also, this game has a medieval setting...you are not supposed to be able to become rich easily...or even close to it. Only the nobles and large merchants of those times had money and it wasnt a lot because it was constantly spent on just surviving or staying in business. How many stories do you know of about a European/Middle Eastern/North African peasant becoming wealthy that comes from the 8th to 14th centuries? Thats 600 years of history...

Does the game need some tweaks? Yes, but not a great deal when it comes to money making or influence which is also realistically difficult as that was also built over generations far more often than not.
 
Kulgrinda Košmarjus said:
I think you're just a **** player, and quite likely even a worse reader, since you missed two big letters when purchasing the game. On top of that I can't wait until the changes will be so big the previous savegames won't work and your campaign goes to bits and you'll come to the forums raging.



Please can we try to be a little bit more civil it's just a disagreement about a game there is literally zero need for this unpleasantness.
if you ask me that guy asked for it lol
I don't mind, had a good laughter here.

Now, onto the matter of hand:


You clearly need to play more and actually learn the game, you didnt even get the "best workshop in the game" part right. This is a sandbox, it does not hold your hand to a "best way" or "most profitable way" to play...you have to actually FIND IT and most wont because they become easily locked into a set style that suits them personally which is the way its supposed to be in a sandbox. You, create your way to play.

Also, this game has a medieval setting...you are not supposed to be able to become rich easily...or even close to it. Only the nobles and large merchants of those times had money and it wasnt a lot because it was constantly spent on just surviving or staying in business. How many stories do you know of about a European/Middle Eastern/North African peasant becoming wealthy that comes from the 8th to 14th centuries? Thats 600 years of history...

Does the game need some tweaks? Yes, but not a great deal when it comes to money making or influence which is also realistically difficult as that was also built over generations far more often than not.
I've learned every inch of the game by now (except new stuff coming into and from the Beta branch), I can say one thing: The nerfs are detrimental.
Now, about workshops, they float, literally, they float like there was no tomorrow... On one save it's possible to have a Smithy making 1.5k g per day, on the other save you won't be able to have a single workshop making more than 700 per tick, and that 700 if you're lucky. So yeah, you can brag about it, thing is the game economy is too unpredictable in a really REALLY bad way. It doesn't even make sense... Sometimes I have 1000 of the same ****ing product but it still costs more in said town than it does in another that has only 100 of said item... It's NONSENSE hahahaha

So, when they nerf, they kill some saves because of bad seeds, in fact, bad seeds can ruin your playthrough just with the roll of available companions. LITERALLY RUIN THE PLAYTHROUGH... "Oh, you want a nice trader companion? Too bad, you have no more companion rolls, and none of the available ones is suited for trading"... In fact, this happens too often, the RNG is king still in this EA, it's supposed to get better as we get rid of the annoying "place-holders", until then, it's a game of luck, it's a slot machine each time you start a new game.
 
I've learned every inch of the game by now...snip...

yeah, no you havent (no one has)...others have pointed out that 30 gold is nowhere near the best workshop in the game. Why do you keep ignoring others pointing out where you are wrong? Learn from it and become a better player...they are literally helping you improve your enjoyment of the game by teaching you...and like in real life, prices should be fluctuating based upon availability AND need of goods. that is a good thing. And no, it makes PERFECT SENSE for a place with 1000 of a thing to be more expensive than a place with 100 at times.

If you had 100 iron and no local smithy, what good is it? Thus its value is low because no one actually needs it.
But if you had 100000 iron and a bunch of smithy's suddenly that iron has more value because people are buying it and using it. Its supply AND demand that prices fit.

This is why trade caravans go long distances. To take items where its needed and at times that is far away.

As for your ending, yeah but you should expect your saves to become fubar during an Alpha and Beta...its AFTER release that your argument holds water and I would fully 100% back you on it. Its just one of those things you have to live with in an early access. As for the companion limits, I agree that its too small which is why I use several of the companion mods (hint). One that removes the limit you can have and another to remove the limit that spawns in game.

Do the above and suddenly your current complaints to (me) are gone and your personal enjoyment of the game goes up. Have fun.
 
yeah, no you havent (no one has)...others have pointed out that 30 gold is nowhere near the best workshop in the game. Why do you keep ignoring others pointing out where you are wrong? Learn from it and become a better player...they are literally helping you improve your enjoyment of the game by teaching you...and like in real life, prices should be fluctuating based upon availability AND need of goods. that is a good thing. And no, it makes PERFECT SENSE for a place with 1000 of a thing to be more expensive than a place with 100 at times.

If you had 100 iron and no local smithy, what good is it? Thus its value is low because no one actually needs it.
But if you had 100000 iron and a bunch of smithy's suddenly that iron has more value because people are buying it and using it. Its supply AND demand that prices fit.

This is why trade caravans go long distances. To take items where its needed and at times that is far away.

As for your ending, yeah but you should expect your saves to become fubar during an Alpha and Beta...its AFTER release that your argument holds water and I would fully 100% back you on it. Its just one of those things you have to live with in an early access. As for the companion limits, I agree that its too small which is why I use several of the companion mods (hint). One that removes the limit you can have and another to remove the limit that spawns in game.

Do the above and suddenly your current complaints to (me) are gone and your personal enjoyment of the game goes up. Have fun.
well, I actually did, I know how to test games because I'm a ****ing bachelor in game development, my dude. I've went deep into testing this, as I've said, I know every inch of it except what's in the Beta branch. You can attack me as much as you want, facts are facts.

Also, you need to read with calm and patience, not like a raging kid, I've referred, quite clearly, by saves meaning play-throughs.
 
well, I actually did, I know how to test games because I'm a ****ing bachelor in game development, my dude. I've went deep into testing this, as I've said, I know every inch of it except what's in the Beta branch. You can attack me as much as you want, facts are facts.

Also, you need to read with calm and patience, not like a raging kid, I've referred, quite clearly, by saves meaning play-throughs.

Are you serious...jesus christ this forum is utter garbage. There was nothing in my post that was attacking and you now using an appeal to authority on me is utterly nuts when my reply that was clearly giving you advise on how to fix your issues. This thread is filled with people giving useful actual information and you are acting like a petulant child lashing out at the outrage that they are trying to help you.

What-ever, rage on. Dont improve your ability to enjoy the game even a tiny bit. Its no skin off my nose. I like others are having a great time. Enjoy your self created misery!
 
Are you serious...jesus christ this forum is utter garbage. There was nothing in my post that was attacking and you now using an appeal to authority on me is utterly nuts when my reply that was clearly giving you advise on how to fix your issues. This thread is filled with people giving useful actual information and you are acting like a petulant child lashing out at the outrage that they are trying to help you.

What-ever, rage on. Dont improve your ability to enjoy the game even a tiny bit. Its no skin off my nose. I like others are having a great time. Enjoy your self created misery!
not miserable, I'm having fun discussing in the forums atm, and am quite happy doing it, I'm even smiling here. Remember that text-driven communication is never as precise as conversing with someone, something that may sound aggressive may only really sound aggressive to you for the way one interprets a message is their own doing. Yes you did try to attack me, but not like full attack crazy nuts keyboard cursing raging troll, you simply tried to discredit what I was saying by attacking my introductory line, while ignoring everything else, this is a behavior of overly zealous Dunning-Kruger response. You didn't even think about what I was saying, else I'd get a entirely different response from you. Remember, you're dealing with a communications bat****tard crazy nerd idiot (that's me)
 
This is the game's fault, not the player's. If the game presents you with a load of options and playstyles, all of them should be viable. Right now your only real option is to grind the same easy activities until you get enough money for more permanent income. The quests suck, the merc income sucks, the trade sucks. Spamming looters is the only thing anyone does in the early game, which is inexcusable since the earlygame should be the most fun and varied part of a sandbox RPG like this.

You couldn't be further from the truth. I do a mix of many things while playing and get money from various sources, not only chasing looters. I already also think the start is one of the most fun parts of the game, albeit I want the game improved and further developed - but that goes without saying.
 
The right way: analyze the system, find the reason it doesn't work, make a new model, does it work? then and only THEN tweak it.

Do I think there is a model or game design behind all this nonsense? NO. I just see a vague tendency to copy paste the same mechanics from Warband with the same philosophy: just randomness here and there, to give it the appearance of reality without any logic behind.
I...

I.e. Politics. Why those conquered fiefs go to one clan or the other? I guess influence spent gives some weight and then there is a random number and that's it.
But what about...

Diplomacy. Why a kingdom goes to war? There are some weights based on power and situation and then there is a random number and the winner is...

Player's experience and gameplay design are not in the equation.
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So, when they nerf, they kill some saves because of bad seeds, in fact, bad seeds can ruin your playthrough just with the roll of available companions. LITERALLY RUIN THE PLAYTHROUGH... "Oh, you want a nice trader companion? Too bad, you have no more companion rolls, and none of the available ones is suited for trading"...

Unless 1.4.1 changed something, trade skill still doesn't impact the profits your caravans make. At least not in a meaningful manner because my spicevendor vs. guy w/ 0 trade have daily income that is about equal.
 
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