Even more grind to get influence now.

[Koshkasa]

their nerf was too harsh, it is 10 times lower, I'd have tried something less desperate, like 0.2 to 0.25. But, then again, people seem to love nerfs because they refuse to restart campaigns, they keep the save file from version -50130.32103 to this date... Of course you'll have nothing to spend the influences upon, and it's obvious you'll not notice how difficult it becomes to grind for influence with such a nerf. AI is addicted to passing policies that handicap players that have just joined a kingdom (not all of them, mind you) and you'll basically be struggling with a negative influence per day until you either level up enough (the Charm ****ty policy) or has accumulated enough influence sources.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with "difficult grind for influence after nerfs". The way influence is working right now, it doesn't end up doing much anyway, regardless of how much you have it.

The liege will try to give you one fief, and until clan level 4 (in case the first fief was a town) won't give you any more. That's just my observation and it may differ from save to save, but the point stands - you are always going to get something, and after that, nothing for a very long time regardless of how much influence you put into it. Derthert will take your city anyway, why bother with the votes at all. So the only applicaiton of voting is to try and tip the scales between several newly defected clans trying to make one of them stay, and you're always gonna pick number of clan members over personal traits regardless. You could use voting to get massive relation advantages, but having high relations doesn't do jack, so again, why bother? xD

That leaves armies as the only real application of influence, and that's where things get interesting.

Passive income is still a big factor in your influence economy, and with an average policy build, not specifically hand-crafted to get even more influence, you can get somewhere near 5-10i per one fief complex (unless Lawspeakers is here to jump on your lawn).

That's, on average, 2 to 3 days to get 1 lord into your army in case you have a city. Having just one fief, basically being a nobody (a noble nobody with land, no less, but still), you can already summon 2-3 dudes to your army in a week's time. That's enough for a medium-scale castle siege, one free castle for you to take every week. No free vassals? Just use the 30i army disband button and get yourself some, it's no biggy.

And while waiting in a fief for a week sounds frustrating (and it is), you're most likely running around in another army or going across Calradia on a T6 armor shopping tour.

So if a nobody gets a free castle steamroller every week, do we really need that process to be even faster? How much power should the player be immediately granted upon joining a kingdom, then?

That said, joining players into kingdoms with negative influence policies (talking about you, Lawspeakers, you prick) is a mess. There's no reason for the faction not to have them, but for the player it's a constant uphill battle to overcome in early game.

 

[Apocal]

this brings another issue: you become locked into doing a single ****ing thing just to "survive" influence wise, and it takes a LOOOOOOOONG time for it to pickup.

That is worst case, with 2 of the big influence penalty policies in place.

 

[Yormund]

their nerf was too harsh, it is 10 times lower, I'd have tried something less desperate, like 0.2 to 0.25. But, then again, people seem to love nerfs because they refuse to restart campaigns, they keep the save file from version -50130.32103 to this date... Of course you'll have nothing to spend the influences upon, and it's obvious you'll not notice how difficult it becomes to grind for influence with such a nerf. AI is addicted to passing policies that handicap players that have just joined a kingdom (not all of them, mind you) and you'll basically be struggling with a negative influence per day until you either level up enough (the Charm ****ty policy) or has accumulated enough influence sources.

Yes, it's annoying, and also yes, it can be "beaten". To me, grind is nothing more than a time sink. Personally I prefer to sink less time into trivial things, hence I do miss any sort actual of strategy in BL, and find the grind to be unrewarding, pointless even. If you ask me what I'd prefer to do in BL I'd probably say "not play it", but, since I'm idle due to the ****ing covid thing, I just do it out of boredom, so what do I do with it? Mostly play mercenary and stick to basic gameplay, which is even more boring after a while. Basic gameplay as mercenary is embracing the grind loop, going vassal or independent is embracing the lack of content and dealing with it. Though there was a guy on another thread that has basically taught me how to play BL in the current state as an Independent Kingdom, which seems to be the only way to actually do it effectively, consists of basically going around all missing features and underlying issues by gaming the game, can see it as being fun, but only for a single play, if you start having to repeat that to achieve success it becomes boring too. :*( hahaha

So far the only fun I've had was by adding the XP multiplier mod and basically turn the leveling into something that feels rewarding,

Would you share this guide link? Would like to give it a read. Thanks in advance!

 

[xdj1nn]

Would you share this guide link? Would like to give it a read. Thanks in advance!

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/end-game-or-would-it-be-whac-a-mole.421817/post-9424676

 

[Yormund]

Thanks bro. Interesting ideas, make me want to go full retard on my Imperial playthrough amd reunite the empire.

 

[MostBlunted]

After this **** with 10 MB update, and all mods stopped working, some are still not working i told to myself, **** it, i won't play the ****ty game for now.
So just forget about singleplayer, or like me, just play multiplayer from time to time, its nice to train your skills >.>

I feel your pain, but they changed a lot of quests nobody cares about

 

[TONSofAG]

So if a nobody gets a free castle steamroller every week, do we really need that process to be even faster? How much power should the player be immediately granted upon joining a kingdom, then?

If the AI can steam roll more often and there are more AIs than there are players, probably? Possibly? And if at some point you get steam rolled, possibly? Probably? I don't know.

Cutting the influence earning to a tenth of what it was before seems a bit much to me. It's like why would you try such an extreme like that right out the gate? What were they basing that on? They could have tried cutting it by 25% or cutting it in half, but they cut earning from .40 to .04? It takes 50 prisoners to earn 4 influence? That doesn't even make sense from a story perspective, lol.

 

[Koshkasa]

If the AI can steam roll more often and there are more AIs than there are players, probably? Possibly? And if at some point you get steam rolled, possibly? Probably? I don't know.

Cutting the influence earning to a tenth of what it was before seems a bit much to me. It's like why would you try such an extreme like that right out the gate? What were they basing that on? They could have tried cutting it by 25% or cutting it in half, but they cut earning from .40 to .04? It takes 50 prisoners to earn 4 influence? That doesn't even make sense from a story perspective, lol.

I've fallen from 38i to 20i daily. How that makes a tenth is anyone's guess.

There are more ways to earn influence other than CoC, or policies at all, for that matter - you have buildings for farming it passively or fights for earning it.

And if you're the newest neighbour on the block in a T2 clan, you probably shouldn't be able to amass the entire realm under your green banner. The player shouldn't be the ultimate solution to all problems in a game that is essentially a sandbox that can play itself. The realm you pledged allegiance to losing fiefs is part of the game.

When you grow into a significant power within the realm, you can still summon 3k dudes to do your bidding, it's not like this ability has gone anywhere with the CoC nerf.

EDIT: Making CoC give 0.1i per notable brings it close to Serfdom / Feudal Inheritance in terms of raw influence output and puts it in line with other policies. I don't think having an actual influence printer policy was ever their intention.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Idduno I've got influence piling up and I'm not even a kingdom, vassal or merc. Just a murderer that took the city where my Baby lives.
What am I going to do influence myself?

 

[TONSofAG]

I've fallen from 38i to 20i daily. How that makes a tenth is anyone's guess.

There are more ways to earn influence other than CoC, or policies at all, for that matter - you have buildings for farming it passively or fights for earning it.

And if you're the newest neighbour on the block in a T2 clan, you probably shouldn't be able to amass the entire realm under your green banner. The player shouldn't be the ultimate solution to all problems in a game that is essentially a sandbox that can play itself. The realm you pledged allegiance to losing fiefs is part of the game.

When you grow into a significant power within the realm, you can still summon 3k dudes to do your bidding, it's not like this ability has gone anywhere with the CoC nerf.

EDIT: Making CoC give 0.1i per notable brings it close to Serfdom / Feudal Inheritance in terms of raw influence output and puts it in line with other policies. I don't think having an actual influence printer policy was ever their intention.

They could have tried cutting it by 25% or cutting it in half, but they cut earning from .40 to .04? It takes 50 prisoners to earn 4 influence? That doesn't even make sense from a story perspective, lol.

That's a tenth there if I'm not mistaken.

And while it should/would have its drawbacks, yes, the person in charge, regardless of how new they are is in charge so they would/should be able to summon their entire army if they want. They aren't less in charge just because they're new.

Actually, while it shouldn't be automatic, the player should absolutely have the ability to be the solution to all problems. Losing fiefs shouldn't be a forced part of the game, but a possibility and that possibility should go up or down based on the player's skill / tactics as well as the difficulty settings.

It is never about can you, it's about how long it takes and should it take that long. To me, some of this should be able to be adjusted with sliders. If you want it to take longer to advance, fine, let that be your choice. If others don't, there's nothing wrong with that either. But to me, from what I've seen, the cut was too great.

 

[mserhatbalik]

You are not supposed to reach end game after 20 hours of play. Nothing is wrong with the grind. If it feels like grind, then this might not be your type of game.

It is like expecting to reach top tier character in Skyrim after 20 hours of play, or painting the europe in CK2 with your colors in mere 10 hours.

 

[Dabos37]

You are not supposed to reach end game after 20 hours of play. Nothing is wrong with the grind. If it feels like grind, then this might not be your type of game.

It is like expecting to reach top tier character in Skyrim after 20 hours of play, or painting the europe in CK2 with your colors in mere 10 hours.

+1

 

[Koshkasa]

That's a tenth there if I'm not mistaken.

And while it should/would have its drawbacks, yes, the person in charge, regardless of how new they are is in charge so they would/should be able to summon their entire army if they want. They aren't less in charge just because they're new.

Actually, while it shouldn't be automatic, the player should absolutely have the ability to be the solution to all problems. Losing fiefs shouldn't be a forced part of the game, but a possibility and that possibility should go up or down based on the player's skill / tactics as well as the difficulty settings.

It is never about can you, it's about how long it takes and should it take that long. To me, some of this should be able to be adjusted with sliders. If you want it to take longer to advance, fine, let that be your choice. If others don't, there's nothing wrong with that either. But to me, from what I've seen, the cut was too great.

That's a fair assessment.

Still, my point is that a new clan isn't supposed to be "in charge". Earn your right to lead the realm, then lead the realm, not the other way around.

The player still has the ability to summon armies (with or without CoC nerf), so the question boils down to how often the player can do that. The player should have the ability to solve any problem, of course, but if it doesn't cost the player anything and he can spam it anytime they want, one has to wonder what a "problem" actually is. The necessity to spend 300i out of your 10k reserve to get a 3k dude steamroller that can take any fief? Would having a 5k influence reserve instead make it a problem?

The cut to CoC is massive, because CoC itself was much more powerful than any other policy in the game. It is now brought in line. You can still get mountains of influence to sit on, but that requires more time (not ten times more time, more in the range of 2-2.5 times because there are more ways to earn influence than CoC).

Adjusting required time with sliders sounds interesting, but it should affect all lords, not just the player. And so far having a ton of influence in the hands of AI lords allows realms to field 2-3 armies at any point in time, making them a common occurence. Not sure if that's the intention, but that's what we get.

Please don't picture me hating someone for not wasting as much time as I am, I'm not advocating time sinks as a concept xD. I just think there's a fine line between the player obeying the sandbox rules and the player being the sandbox god, and I'm not sure we want to see it crossed, generally speaking.

 

[StewVader]

You are not supposed to reach end game after 20 hours of play. Nothing is wrong with the grind. If it feels like grind, then this might not be your type of game.

It is like expecting to reach top tier character in Skyrim after 20 hours of play, or painting the europe in CK2 with your colors in mere 10 hours.

That is your opinion. How do you know if the Devs don't intend for the player to reach end game in 20 hrs? You don't, again this is just your opinion and many of us disagree with you.

 

[Lesbosisles]

I wonder, why does every lord in my Kingdom (Vlandia) votes for Trial by Jury? No matter how often I try to remove it, it always has 100% support for and only me is against it. Just why?

 

[TONSofAG]

That's a fair assessment.

Still, my point is that a new clan isn't supposed to be "in charge". Earn your right to lead the realm, then lead the realm, not the other way around.

The player still has the ability to summon armies (with or without CoC nerf), so the question boils down to how often the player can do that. The player should have the ability to solve any problem, of course, but if it doesn't cost the player anything and he can spam it anytime they want, one has to wonder what a "problem" actually is. The necessity to spend 300i out of your 10k reserve to get a 3k dude steamroller that can take any fief? Would having a 5k influence reserve instead make it a problem?

The cut to CoC is massive, because CoC itself was much more powerful than any other policy in the game. It is now brought in line. You can still get mountains of influence to sit on, but that requires more time (not ten times more time, more in the range of 2-2.5 times because there are more ways to earn influence than CoC).

Adjusting required time with sliders sounds interesting, but it should affect all lords, not just the player. And so far having a ton of influence in the hands of AI lords allows realms to field 2-3 armies at any point in time, making them a common occurence. Not sure if that's the intention, but that's what we get.

Please don't picture me hating someone for not wasting as much time as I am, I'm not advocating time sinks as a concept xD. I just think there's a fine line between the player obeying the sandbox rules and the player being the sandbox god, and I'm not sure we want to see it crossed, generally speaking.

I am confused by what you're saying. How can one summon 3,000 troops if they're not actually in charge? I mean, I thought us amassing forces that range into the thousands (and paying them) was us earning them and the right to order them around and using them to conquer the realm thus earning the right to rule them. In other words, I'm not sure how the "other way around" can even occur.

You don't start out able to command 3,000 as you don't even have that many troops available. You gradually get to a point where you could and even then, just like with money, it takes a bit to build up influence to a point where you don't need to worry about it anymore. Now maybe in your opinion and or your personal tastes (and many), this occurs too quickly. Obviously, this isn't the same for many others.

And again, we technically should be able to reach a point, depending upon our actions, of where we're the raid boss of the game so to speak, imho.

I think becoming a sandbox god should always be possible. What it takes to get there, and maintain such a status, I feel that is a more complicated, yet important, question. And no, I didn't really picture you at all, well aside from your avatar, lol. But only because of love that content creator so I can't help but picture him and hearing what I am reading in his voice, haha.

That is your opinion. How do you know if the Devs don't intend for the player to reach end game in 20 hrs? You don't, again this is just your opinion and many of us disagree with you.

+1

 

[Bob Gnarly]

That is your opinion. How do you know if the Devs don't intend for the player to reach end game in 20 hrs? You don't, again this is just your opinion and many of us disagree with you.

It would be completely out of step with other M&B games, so there's that.

 

[Badcritter]

It would be completely out of step with other M&B games, so there's that.

Yeah, M&B games are traditionally "long". Some would say grindy.

There's mods to change that so you can play a shorter experience if you want, but it is fairly clear the developer's core template is for long games. Adding generational play is another indicator of that intent.

Long doesn't need to mean boring. Long and engaging is the ideal goal.

 

[StewVader]

Yeah, M&B games are traditionally "long". Some would say grindy.

There's mods to change that so you can play a shorter experience if you want, but it is fairly clear the developer's core template is for long games. Adding generational play is another indicator of that intent.

Long doesn't need to mean boring. Long and engaging is the ideal goal.

Indeed. And the definition for "endgame" is different for everyone. People should define what they mean by endgame.

 

[mserhatbalik]

That is your opinion. How do you know if the Devs don't intend for the player to reach end game in 20 hrs? You don't, again this is just your opinion and many of us disagree with you.

I am pretty sure the player base who will keep this game alive for the years to come are not the ones who will play it for 20 hours then switches to another game after getting bored.

Devs were smart enough for not trying to appeal mobile idle clicker game generation by delaying it 8 years. This attitude will not change on a whim.