MP Couched lance - Low risk, high reward

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Killing people with a couched lance is ridiculously easy. Kills shields and players often in one hit.

Right now to get a lot of kills cav someone only has to run around the map in circles, hoping they run into unsuspecting players. Way too easy.
This isn't skillful or fun in any way.

I have a few suggestions that might fix this:

1. Drastically reduce the turn rate for cavarly while couching, forcing them to go in a (mostly) straight line. Right now I'm able to go around corners and easily hit people before they're able to react.
2. Lances have a chance break after a succesful hit with a couched lance.
3. Increase the speed needed to couch.


 
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No to lances breaking, but I concur couched lance needs some changes:

  • Currently holding a couched lance for too long will make it gradually sway until it becomes totally inaccurate, however this is pointless since you're able to simply tap RMB and X again to restart it with perfect accuracy. Couched lances need a cooldown, not as long as Warband's since they're certainly worse, but a small cooldown is necessary nonetheless.
  • Couched lance activation time is too short, it can be active while the animation has barely even started, it needs to be slightly longer.
  • Couched lance stays active even at extremely low speeds, I'm not necessarily against it since it would be frustrating to restart it for every minor speed loss, especially with a cooldown, but it should at least deal a lot less damage.
 
1 and 3 together would be good enough.

Or just give it a proper cool down so it’s not something I can spam, and remove the “instant couches” that can happen ?
 
Needs to have a cooldown between couches, shouldn't be able to couch infinitely around the map, and should take a bit longer to prepare the couch. I think those would be the 3 things that, when combined, would make it a little more challenging. Adding your 1st and 3rd suggestion to these would also work, but could be overkill if overdone. No-no to lances breaking.
 
Needs to have a cooldown between couches, shouldn't be able to couch infinitely around the map, and should take a bit longer to prepare the couch. I think those would be the 3 things that, when combined, would make it a little more challenging. Adding your 1st and 3rd suggestion to these would also work, but could be overkill if overdone. No-no to lances breaking.

Why would lances breaking be a no-no? I feel it would add a bit of flavour to the current cavalry meta.

EDIT: At the moment cavalry makes exclusive use of lances / spears, because it's rather easy to outrange spearmen and get very safe hits on enemies.
 
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Why would lances breaking be a no-no? I feel it would add a bit of flavour to the current cavalry meta.
I really don't think RNG that could take out your main weapon for no good reason has a place in multiplayer context in the first place, even less so if used as an attempt at balancing a class.
 
I really don't think RNG that could take out your main weapon for no good reason has a place in multiplayer context in the first place, even less so if used as an attempt at balancing a class.
Would a durability or "amount of uses" be preferable? Like a light lance gets 1 couch and the heavy ones get 2/3?
 
Would a durability or "amount of uses" be preferable? Like a light lance gets 1 couch and the heavy ones get 2/3?
It's a really janky and band-aid solution to a class/mechanic being too strong. The couch itself would still be just as strong, just because you can now do it 3 times a round doesn't make it less broken. The only way I could see something like this being even remotely considered is, if after all the previously suggested things, cav still somehow ends up being too dominant in the hands of the general player. I still wouldn't like it, this just isn't what people expect from a M&B game.
 
It's a really janky and band-aid solution to a class/mechanic being too strong. The couch itself would still be just as strong, just because you can now do it 3 times a round doesn't make it less broken. The only way I could see something like this being even remotely considered is, if after all the previously suggested things, cav still somehow ends up being too dominant in the hands of the general player. I still wouldn't like it, this just isn't what people expect from a M&B game.

Yeah you're right.
 
Couched lances breaking is simulated by cool down. I wonder if going one step further and disallowing use of the lance even to thrust after a couch lance for a short period would maybe add some more challenge.
 
Remove/nerf crush through from spears its just not intuitive and takes you by surprise when it happens. Idk how TW thought this could work when making a class without shield.
 
Remove/nerf crush through from spears its just not intuitive and takes you by surprise when it happens. Idk how TW thought this could work when making a class without shield.

AFAIK they are looking into it and reduced it so that now the only time it seems to happen for me is if I’m cav riding into a Kontos they will crush through my block.
 
This is one of the main signs that the damage done by one-handed weapons is weak, and weapon perks are based only on the superiority of spears.

And the lack of development of riding also makes it possible to abuse spears.
 
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AFAIK they are looking into it and reduced it so that now the only time it seems to happen for me is if I’m cav riding into a Kontos they will crush through my block.
But what does it offer or how do you want to have 2h infantry counterplay it? Sometimes you just eat the damage and gamble on blocking? Do you want the 2h infantry to outrange the horse rider? Does 2h Infantry need another hard counter ?

It needs to go completly..
 
But what does it offer or how do you want to have 2h infantry counterplay it? Sometimes you just eat the damage and gamble on blocking? Do you want the 2h infantry to outrange the horse rider? Does 2h Infantry need another hard counter ?

It needs to go completly..

I would rather see it only happen on “passive blocks”, “active blocks” should not be crushed through. The counter play then is to time it properly instead of just lazily holding an up or down block when cavalry approaches.

It’s not optimal as it is though, you are correct.
 
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