Waiting for 10 years makes it feel only more hurtful.

Users who are viewing this thread

It was for long a deeply felt hope and dream that with a new game made from scratch, immersion would be really an important part of the experience this time. This wasn't a grounded dream as it seems:

1)They changed the city names and expanded the lore, all those things seemed to be evolving, and the only thing that comes to mind is. So what?! They made the lore totally forgettable and the player can't help but to feel uninvolved. You don't know or even care about each city, each settlement, and why should you? It doesnt have its own history, people's stories, spirit to draw from and immerse yourself in a studious exploration. Just generic dots on a map, that you don't give 2 cents about. No significance, no variety, no secrets to be found, no strategic dynamics to be utilised in game from the various local differences.

2)Which expands to the races themselves. Doesn't matter with whom you are or which region you visit. The bots are generic copies of one another, no character, no unique race cultural DNA, just a generic blend with the same mannerisms, ways and acting all around. No different diplomatic and personal consequences of interacting at an inter-factional level.

3)Marriage and creating alliances. Really it doesn't add any depth as one would imagine. No importance as to how AI treats your party in a region when you marry their princess, and in general no immersive repercussions of this union are to be seen. It's just a sterile way to pile up more points on a linear system. I'd dare to say even the courting systems of previous games i found them a little bit more interesting than that.

4)It's all about battle, but do you give a damn? Battle for what? Renown? Honor? Complex personal motives? A Hellen of troy? None of this really exists in this game. You can save your King like a newborn Leonidas, against impossible battle odds, and what do you get? A big fat nothing. either you save him with ease, or you dreadfully pour sweat and blood against an awe inspiring army, you either way get a pseudo pat on the shoulder and a sterile +1 relationship status no matter how big the sacrifice. No battles to leave a mark, to have an ingame historical significance, to be remembered, bards singing poems about them, to inspire great festivities when you return victorious to your city or to inspire enemies to pursue back with unprecedented fervor and awe. So its only battle for battle, to gather a few more money points and that's it. With no purpose, no meaning. The wars are so random and spontaneous and even if you clear an area after a hard fought battle no realistic dissipation of the tension exists for a significant amount of time.

5)You really need to disband a companion to make upgrade and customisation decisions about them. Instead of organically managing your party however you wanted while in your presence. And summoning your lords and recruits of course with a command when necessary not looking for them yourself. Was that all really necessary though? Instead of making customisation easier and more immersive we take steps back? Why?

6)The combat AI seems to have some improvements from WB but its no where near satisfactory or human level decisions rational. A whola lot of adjustments need to be made. It's very counterintuitive to see how they react in most clashing scenarios that unfold within a battle.

7)The smithing experience was a novel addition, thus one i really looked forward for but my oh my was i to be surprised. Not only its not blooming with an in depth intriguing tree of unlockable capabilities but its the least rewarding i could expect. And God oh God it is SO resource intense and demanding. Or the varying prices for objects of similar weapons like daggers and swords, why be so immense as if they belong to different worlds. Or the XP which is being gained in such an uneven way depending on the weapon perk you concentrate on. Did they try to balance it before release? I really don't know.

Certainly many more will come to mind as time comes but at the moment the brain is too numb from.... a crawling sense of dissapointment after such a long wait... . Let's hope future upgrades will at least slightly improve some of the game's issues.
 
It was for long a deeply felt hope and dream that with a new game made from scratch, immersion would be really an important part of the experience this time. This wasn't a grounded dream as it seems:

1)They changed the city names and expanded the lore, all those things seemed to be evolving, and the only thing that comes to mind is. So what?! They made the lore totally forgettable and the player can't help but to feel uninvolved. You don't know or even care about each city, each settlement, and why should you? It doesnt have its own history, people's stories, spirit to draw from and immerse yourself in a studious exploration. Just generic dots on a map, that you don't give 2 cents about. No significance, no variety, no secrets to be found, no strategic dynamics to be utilised in game from the various local differences.

2)Which expands to the races themselves. Doesn't matter with whom you are or which region you visit. The bots are generic copies of one another, no character, no unique race cultural DNA, just a generic blend with the same mannerisms, ways and acting all around. No different diplomatic and personal consequences of interacting at an inter-factional level.

3)Marriage and creating alliances. Really it doesn't add any depth as one would imagine. No importance as to how AI treats your party in a region when you marry their princess, and in general no immersive repercussions of this union are to be seen. It's just a sterile way to pile up more points on a linear system. I'd dare to say even the courting systems of previous games i found them a little bit more interesting than that.

4)It's all about battle, but do you give a damn? Battle for what? Renown? Honor? Complex personal motives? A Hellen of troy? None of this really exists in this game. You can save your King like a newborn Leonidas, against impossible battle odds, and what do you get? A big fat nothing. either you save him with ease, or you dreadfully pour sweat and blood against an awe inspiring army, you either way get a pseudo pat on the shoulder and a sterile +1 relationship status no matter how big the sacrifice. No battles to leave a mark, to have an ingame historical significance, to be remembered, bards singing poems about them, to inspire great festivities when you return victorious to your city or to inspire enemies to pursue back with unprecedented fervor and awe. So its only battle for battle, to gather a few more money points and that's it. With no purpose, no meaning. The wars are so random and spontaneous and even if you clear an area after a hard fought battle no realistic dissipation of the tension exists for a significant amount of time.

5)You really need to disband a companion to make upgrade and customisation decisions about them. Instead of organically managing your party however you wanted while in your presence. And summoning your lords and recruits of course with a command when necessary not looking for them yourself. Was that all really necessary though? Instead of making customisation easier and more immersive we take steps back? Why?

6)The combat AI seems to have some improvements from WB but its no where near satisfactory or human level decisions rational. A whola lot of adjustments need to be made. It's very counterintuitive to see how they react in most clashing scenarios that unfold within a battle.

7)The smithing experience was a novel addition, thus one i really looked forward for but my oh my was i to be surprised. Not only its not blooming with an in depth intriguing tree of unlockable capabilities but its the least rewarding i could expect. And God oh God it is SO resource intense and demanding. Or the varying prices for objects of similar weapons like daggers and swords, why be so immense as if they belong to different worlds. Or the XP which is being gained in such an uneven way depending on the weapon perk you concentrate on. Did they try to balance it before release? I really don't know.

Certainly many more will come to mind as time comes but at the moment the brain is too numb from.... a crawling sense of dissapointment after such a long wait... . Let's hope future upgrades will at least slightly improve some of the game's issues.

This is not the launch title. It's VERY MUCH still in early access, and they are listening to our feedback. If you bought the EA game expecting a full-blown AAA game, you are mistaken. Already, it is miles beyond any EA game that I have played, because it is actually playable. The dev team is small. Give them time.
 
TBF we aren't done waiting. We will probably be waiting 11-12 year for a full Bannerlord release. At least they aren't redoing the engine anymore.
 
Well dude. All that you wrote is true. Features are not there. Not yet. That is something I noticed a lot of you doomers/gloomers like to omit. You are looking at an unfinished product and complain that it is missing features. Yes, that is what happens with... unfinished products.

We can argue if they should have released EA or not considering a lot of people don't give a damn about the fact that it is EA and not a full release yet. At the end of the day though. The game is here it is playable, it is getting more stuff. Should it already have more stuff or not is also debatable but hey... you can shelve the game for half a year and not invest yourself into it as if it is a full release. Come back later and see what was improved.

You are not an investor that contracted TW to produce you the game and are entitled to be pissed off because they are years late. We are just end consumers here you buy what is there not what you want it to be there.

Another thing I don't understand is people complaining about patches and how they don't pump out huge changes every week. Like dude... did you learn how to read 1 week after you learned how to walk? Things don't happen that quickly.

On the other hand I don't like the excuse of "it is a small team". It is just pathetic. It is not just 5 people.
 
Your first 4 points summarize quite well what Bannerlord is lacking in feelings: yeah, battle might be awesome but their outcome is not.
At this point Bannerlord is little more than just a Warband reskin... I don't have many hopes for the EA but maybe people are right and they will start adding content soon (and at least fix perks sooner)
 
Well dude. All that you wrote is true. Features are not there. Not yet. That is something I noticed a lot of you doomers/gloomers like to omit. You are looking at an unfinished product and complain that it is missing features. Yes, that is what happens with... unfinished products.

We can argue if they should have released EA or not considering a lot of people don't give a damn about the fact that it is EA and not a full release yet. At the end of the day though. The game is here it is playable, it is getting more stuff. Should it already have more stuff or not is also debatable but hey... you can shelve the game for half a year and not invest yourself into it as if it is a full release. Come back later and see what was improved.

Another thing I don't understand is people complaining about patches and how they don't pump out huge changes every week. Like dude... did you learn how to read 1 week after you learned how to walk? Things don't happen that quickly.

On the other hand I don't like the excuse of "it is a small team". It is just pathetic. It is not just 5 people.

Yes, but seeing how it took so many years to get to the current state of the game, one can only imagine there won't be much improvement in one year. Unless they hire tons of people with the newly made cash of early access sells and they really listen to the community, I don't see the game delivering its full potential on release.

Aside from that, there have been mods almost from day one fixing broken stuff way faster than the devs, so what gives?
 
Well dude. All that you wrote is true. Features are not there. Not yet. That is something I noticed a lot of you doomers/gloomers like to omit. You are looking at an unfinished product and complain that it is missing features. Yes, that is what happens with... unfinished products.

We can argue if they should have released EA or not considering a lot of people don't give a damn about the fact that it is EA and not a full release yet. At the end of the day though. The game is here it is playable, it is getting more stuff. Should it already have more stuff or not is also debatable but hey... you can shelve the game for half a year and not invest yourself into it as if it is a full release. Come back later and see what was improved.

You are not an investor that contracted TW to produce you the game and are entitled to be pissed off because they are years late. We are just end consumers here you buy what is there not what you want it to be there.

Another thing I don't understand is people complaining about patches and how they don't pump out huge changes every week. Like dude... did you learn how to read 1 week after you learned how to walk? Things don't happen that quickly.

On the other hand I don't like the excuse of "it is a small team". It is just pathetic. It is not just 5 people.

Those points are on point and i can see where your thoughts and feelings are coming from but don't be surprised long commited fans are invested in the series. Or don't tell me, that you really believe all those deep rooted problems will be fixed. The game wasn't designed with those immersion factors in mind from the start. It's not something completely fixable. It wanted to be a spiritedless, generic, amass meaningless power simulator. can't turn it into a game with soul no matter how many the updates.
 
Yes, but seeing how it took so many years to get to the current state of the game, one can only imagine there won't be much improvement in one year. Unless they hire tons of people with the newly made cash of early access sells and they really listen to the community, I don't see the game delivering its full potential on release.
The difference now it that they released the product into public now. While they could have stalled certain development before they can't do it now as much because well... the ghost was let out of the bottle.

Aside from that, there have been mods almost from day one fixing broken stuff way faster than the devs, so what gives?
It is easy to target specific things to fix in your spare time and out of fun when you are not bounded by a who knows how big of a backlog of things that has to be done and people aren't breathing down your neck. Most of programmers aren't some home dwelling hermits that work non stop on writing code/fixing bugs.

Those points are on point and i can see where your thoughts and feelings are coming from but don't be surprised long commited fans are invested in the series. Or don't tell me, that you really believe all those deep rooted problems will be fixed. The game wasn't designed with those immersion factors in mind from the start. It's not something completely fixable. It wanted to be a spiritedless, generic, amass meaningless power simulator. can't turn it into a game with soul no matter how many the updates.
Then what you have here is a case of over-expectations that simply wont be satisfied. Possibly ever. Buying something for what you hope it will be and not for what it is.

It is like courting an absolutely perfect woman. Or at least that is what you think she is when you have conversations about her in your head. Then you spend some time with her and realise that she farts and doesn't wash her feet before bed. Or even there might be nothing wrong with her... she is just a overall nice and decent human being and not some love demon of excelence that you hyped yourself for her to be.
 
Last edited:
The difference now it that they released the product into public now. While they could have stalled certain development before they can't do it now as much because well... the ghost was let out of the bottle.


It is easy to target specific things to fix in your spare time and out of fun when you are not bounded by a who knows how big of a backlog of things that has to be done and people aren't breathing down your neck. Most of programmers aren't some home dwelling hermits that work non stop on writing code/fixing bugs.

Yeah but some fundamental stuff like combat AI? It's been broken for quite a while now, even pushed from a supposedly beta branch to the main one, and it's been fixed by quite a while now too by the enhanced combat AI mod.
 
Those points are on point and i can see where your thoughts and feelings are coming from but don't be surprised long commited fans are invested in the series. Or don't tell me, that you really believe all those deep rooted problems will be fixed. The game wasn't designed with those immersion factors in mind from the start. It's not something completely fixable. It wanted to be a spiritedless, generic, amass meaningless power simulator. can't turn it into a game with soul no matter how many the updates.
This is honestly what I was thinking about your original post. It sounds like you are disappointed that features aren't in Bannerlord which the devs never promised nor were present in WB. Like, if I got mad Elder Scrolls 6 was in Hammerfall and not Highrock, I'm just doomed to not like it, and what I wanted was never the direction the devs were going in. I hope you can one day find things in Bannerlord you do like though, mate.

Some devs have eluded to adding major content patches down the road, but I think they need to release a roadmap so we know what to expect is coming down the pike.
 
Yeah but some fundamental stuff like combat AI? It's been broken for quite a while now, even pushed from a supposedly beta branch to the main one, and it's been fixed by quite a while now too by the enhanced combat AI mod.
Well the problem with AI is that in order for it to be any good you need you PC to be able to be good at maths. However some people's PCs aren't that good at maths. So how do you balance the thing to not kill gameplay experience for some or the other people? It is hard... as you surly noticed.

I have no doubts that if things would be straightforward to fix and easy to do that they would do it already.

And yes I'm aware of their indecisiveness of shot callers in TW... I would hazard a guess that this is where most of the problems lie.
 
This is honestly what I was thinking about your original post. It sounds like you are disappointed that features aren't in Bannerlord which the devs never promised nor were present in WB. Like, if I got mad Elder Scrolls 6 was in Hammerfall and not Highrock, I'm just doomed to not like it, and what I wanted was never the direction the devs were going in. I hope you can one day find things in Bannerlord you do like though, mate.

Some devs have eluded to adding major content patches down the road, but I think they need to release a roadmap so we know what to expect is coming down the pike.
I do find it fun and having characteristics of what made the series an all time classic. And while immersion was never directly verbalised it was often indirectly promised i think. With all those systems and features in place. Hell we were even goin to play tabletop games in taverns hehe.
 
The difference now it that they released the product into public now. While they could have stalled certain development before they can't do it now as much because well... the ghost was let out of the bottle.


It is easy to target specific things to fix in your spare time and out of fun when you are not bounded by a who knows how big of a backlog of things that has to be done and people aren't breathing down your neck. Most of programmers aren't some home dwelling hermits that work non stop on writing code/fixing bugs.


Then what you have here is a case of over-expectations that simply wont be satisfied. Possibly ever. Buying something for what you hope it will be and not for what it is.

It is like courting an absolutely perfect woman. Or at least that is what you think she is when you have conversations about her in your head. Then you spend some time with her and realise that she farts and doesn't wash her feet before bed. Or even there might be nothing wrong with her... she is just a overall nice and decent human being and not some love demon of excelence that you hyped yourself for her to be.
No need to find overdramatic elements in all fanbase sentiments. Practical issues like combat AI, diplomacy, economics, balance and systems refinement exist. It's not all about immersion. But i don't even see what's bad with immersion in a game that could totally benefit by attracting a larger base and Taleworlds becoming a greater company. They deserve it, they worked so hard. And a title with no spirit can't grant them that mass accessibility.
 
My main concern about Bannerlord isn't that some features are not present yet, it's that it does not seems focused on a clear direction. Original M&B was very clearly focused on combat, with trading as an aside. This iteration seems to want to go in several directions at once, some of which are conflicting.

The leveling system is a hodgepodge of M&B and Elder scrolls. Crafting is ripe with exploits and incoherencies due to trying to accomodate a purely combat-focused approach, a TES-like crafting system and "realistic" elements about forging, plus an "economy".

I'm not worried that features are not implemented, this is not my first Beta. (I was in the M&B Beta, Grim Dawn etc...) It's that there need to be some choices made about were the game is going in terms of its mechanics. Right now, I'm not really convinced there's a clear path for development. We'll see. I'm still having fun for the moment.
 
My main concern about Bannerlord isn't that some features are not present yet, it's that it does not seems focused on a clear direction. Original M&B was very clearly focused on combat, with trading as an aside. This iteration seems to want to go in several directions at once, some of which are conflicting.

The leveling system is a hodgepodge of M&B and Elder scrolls. Crafting is ripe with exploits and incoherencies due to trying to accomodate a purely combat-focused approach, a TES-like crafting system and "realistic" elements about forging, plus an "economy".
Yup, my trade/bow/polearm character is just stuck at 20 1h skill even though he killed 1,000 guys with 1hers. Fact is current SP gains go down to like 0.6% of normal if you don't have attribute and focus points there. Your SP gains can never realistically get past a novice level in the skill even if you use it a lot.
 
My main concern about Bannerlord isn't that some features are not present yet, it's that it does not seems focused on a clear direction. Original M&B was very clearly focused on combat, with trading as an aside. This iteration seems to want to go in several directions at once, some of which are conflicting.

The leveling system is a hodgepodge of M&B and Elder scrolls. Crafting is ripe with exploits and incoherencies due to trying to accomodate a purely combat-focused approach, a TES-like crafting system and "realistic" elements about forging, plus an "economy".

I'm not worried that features are not implemented, this is not my first Beta. (I was in the M&B Beta, Grim Dawn etc...) It's that there need to be some choices made about were the game is going in terms of its mechanics. Right now, I'm not really convinced there's a clear path for development. We'll see. I'm still having fun for the moment.
This, there doesn't seem to be any clear path of development. They have no idea what they want to do with this game. Was anything really improved over Warband? not really, just the graphics.
Even the world map is worse in Bannerlord. You have so many cities in Bannerlord and taking any of them doesn't feel like you accomplished anything.
 
Put praven where praven belongs please. There are several cities that are misplaced iirc
My only answer to this is simply, 200 years in the future is warband and ive noticed most of all Vlandian cities are tier 1 so lets just assume they got burned and destroyed. By lore they did technically break off into Rhodoks and Swadia so some cities being burned down to the ground in a civil war wouldnt be that unfeasible.
 
Back
Top Bottom