Stop nerfing things.

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Just stop. Focus on completing features like perks, kingdom management, mid-late game, endless wars, feasts, lack of late game armor, lords leaving your kingdom for no reason.
The only thing that is acceptable to nerf is council of commons, or remove it completely. No mention of it at all though.
Why do you keep nerfing ways to make money? In what aspect were caravans broken? Why would you make them more susceptible to bandits when they spawn indefinitely and hideouts are only temporarily destroyed? Some regions are permanently poor, like Rodobas near Varcheg, simply because of how close bandit hideouts are. Why did you nerf pottery shops? Why do you want to nerf the amount of loot we get after battle? High tier armors are near impossible to find in 1.1, but you make them more frequent in 1.2? Why is it that we make less money but things are artificially more expensive? I had a jeweled imperial helmet before 1.1. It was worth 40k. After updating, it was worth 400k. I made a 360k profit just because the game updated. Is 3 million really that much when it costs 500k to recruit a lord with a single town? (he didn't stay with me despite having 100 relations btw). Is 3 million really that much when it costs 300k for a crowned battanian helmet?

Instead of nerfing everything, perhaps give us more things to spend money on. If you're gonna make things more expensive, fine, but don't nerf ways to make money at the same time. Give us like, maybe, I dunno, feasts, tournaments? Pay a smith to make us custom weapons? Pay a smith to make us lordly armor? More upgrades for towns? Make them actually cost money? Let us upgrade villages so we don't have to rely on mods that make the food situation playable? At this rate when the game is done, we'll be farming looters for 10 denars a day until we can barely afford a slightly longer sword. Calradia will already be conquered by an army of recruits though.
 
Another fix for too much money rather than nerfing workshops and caravans - when our character dies, divide all the money up between our children (provided you adjust fertility rates lmao)
 
I disagree at this point, caravans were too much safe way of making money and pottery shops were over profitable in comparison to other types of workshops
But what about caravans, as they are more attractive to bandits, it's need to allow to upgrade their safety in some way, for example increase troop limit(as it was decreased with the update) for money or buy/hire additional security to caravan
 
I disagree at this point, caravans were too much safe way of making money and pottery shops were over profitable in comparison to other types of workshops

Caravans did not make enough money to warrant nerfing their safety. My caravans made about 1,800 or so a day with 400ish operation costs, leading to a profit of only 1,400ish denars a day.

Meanwhile I often make 10K a battle with some bigger battles yielding 60-80K. The vast, vast, vaaaaast majority of my money came from war spoils. The only thing caravans did was pay for the cost of my troops.

It is loot that is causing the massive amounts of wealth players accumulate in late game. Caravans only served to make it easier to transition from early to mid-game without needing to spend hours hunting looters and bandits.
 
These changes really were disappointing. The game only starts being fun once you have a good amount of money, before that it consists in a series of repetitive buggy missions, repetitive battles with looters — who are faster than you and hard to catch most of the time — and some trading if you prefer — which used to be interesting as well. Once you have a good income then you can engage in wars, fight lords with extremely expensive armours and good units, conquer castles and so on, then finally the game is fun.

The early game used to be more enjoyable before these changes, especially the tournaments. It was entertaining to fight in the random modes of the arena, but then they made it useless. You do not make relevant profit anymore and the prizes are horrible… So in the end you win a duel against someone with an extremely expensive heavy armour and get an irrelevant prize, maybe only the renown is worth mentioning.

Once you buy a workshop then you will have a good income to maintain your party in the early game, Pottery Shops used to be a good source of money to maintain a good amount of high level soldiers and buy nice armours, but then after a update they are not profitable anymore in various locations and armours and weapons had their value increased in an absurd rate. It was alright for sometime, I changed my workshops to another type but I was still receiving a good amount of income only because I already had bought 3 of them… but then all cities ended up without gold and no workshop have value anymore.

So are these changes only being tested in saves with more than 200 days? I do not understand why make the early game even more slower and not enjoyable than it already was while other heroes younger then your character already have huge stats and why delay even more the fun part of the game making you pay absurd prices for gear while having even less income.
 
They certainly should not nerf the variety of different ways you can make money but they definitely should make money a scarce resource in the game's world - just as it is IRL.

Caravans should also be vulnerable to attack. And you should have to be concerned about your "trade" routes. Think of the Silk Road trade routes. They were a raider's paradise, constantly under attack - it was a huge effort for traders to protect their wares. However, they need to think of a way in which the player can decisively (to a certain extent) ensure their investment is safe, without their protection becoming a tedious game of whack'a'mole. The investment of player effort should be worth the reward, but caravans should never be 100% safe, imo.

It's a tricky balancing act. But to say "no nerfs, ever" is silly. I'm currently swimming in so much money the game has become a joke at this point. It will take time for them to find the balance.
 
They certainly should not nerf the variety of different ways you can make money but they definitely should make money a scarce resource in the game's world - just as it is IRL.

Caravans should also be vulnerable to attack. And you should have to be concerned about your "trade" routes. Think of the Silk Road trade routes. They were a raider's paradise, constantly under attack - it was a huge effort for traders to protect their wares. However, they need to think of a way in which the player can decisively (to a certain extent) ensure their investment is safe, without their protection becoming a tedious game of whack'a'mole. The investment of player effort should be worth the reward, but caravans should never be 100% safe, imo.

It's a tricky balancing act. But to say "no nerfs, ever" is silly. I'm currently swimming in so much money the game has become a joke at this point. It will take time for them to find the balance.

But the thing is you probably didn't acquire that wealth from caravans. I have 4mil atm, but most of my income is from fiefs and fightings. They are nerfing the wrong thing imo.
 
They certainly should not nerf the variety of different ways you can make money but they definitely should make money a scarce resource in the game's world - just as it is IRL.

Caravans should also be vulnerable to attack. And you should have to be concerned about your "trade" routes. Think of the Silk Road trade routes. They were a raider's paradise, constantly under attack - it was a huge effort for traders to protect their wares. However, they need to think of a way in which the player can decisively (to a certain extent) ensure their investment is safe, without their protection becoming a tedious game of whack'a'mole. The investment of player effort should be worth the reward, but caravans should never be 100% safe, imo.

It's a tricky balancing act. But to say "no nerfs, ever" is silly. I'm currently swimming in so much money the game has become a joke at this point. It will take time for them to find the balance.
You have so much money because there's nothing to do with it. If we could actually find top tier armors, bet in higher risk/reward tournaments, fund feasts, pay for custom weapons and lordly armors, and divide up our money among our children, then things would be fine. The solution is MORE features, not breaking whats already there and making it useless.
 
You have so much money because there's nothing to do with it. If we could actually find top tier armors, bet in higher risk/reward tournaments, fund feasts, pay for custom weapons and lordly armors, and divide up our money among our children, then things would be fine. The solution is MORE features, not breaking whats already there and making it useless.

Exactly, there's nothing to spend money on. I am flat bored.
 
Worse is: caravans, workshops and tournaments are important for early to midgame players before joining a kingdom. They just made the early game more tedious without countering the late game void. Honestly starting to lose faith there.
 
Let's compare money in native warband to money in native EA bannerlord
In Warband, wages were weekly. Bannerlord, they're daily.
In Warband, the best enterprise was dyeworks, endgame was a dyeworks in every town. Financial stability was critical to the mid game before joining a kingdom as villages could not pay your wages. In Bannerlord, the best enterprise is...was pottery, now I'll be completely honest, I don't even know because there is no way to tell how much you'll make before buying something. Who knows what it will be next update? Will workshops even be worth it?
In Warband, your party size was very small. Im talking, like, 70 dudes by the end of the game unless you have 10 in leadership. In Bannerlord, your party size can likely get up to 500 with maxed stewardship perks - I'm only estimating here, as the perks aren't implemented. Assuming this army is elite and not recruits, you'll be spending at least 5000 on your party alone by 500 troops. This doesn't include garrisons, companion parties which are capped at 80, caravan wages or policies.
In Warband, the most money you'd make was from a town, and that is what would get you into the millions by the end of the game. I believe my character had 1.5 million after conquering Calradia, and like Bannerlord, I had nothing to spend money on. But what I did spend money on up until that point was upgrades to town, good armor, lordly armor, masterwork weapons, and it wasn't really had all that taken care of did I really accumulate wealth. In Bannerlord, I make a majority of my money from fiefs, and a majority of my expenses go into my party, clan parties, and garrisons in that order. This is at what is considered late game. I can't buy new armor because I can't find it, I have 3 million denars, I'm independent, and I'm still wearing a kilt, granted its a very nice kilt. Upgrades barely cost anything (nothing if you don't put money in reserve), and its extremely fast to upgrade things. In Warband, the upgrades were expensive and very noticeable. Bannerlord, the best upgrade is walls, everything else seems to hurt you in the long run. More prosperity? Less food. Less food? Less prosperity until the cycle repeats itself. Weapons and armor however went up to astronomical prices, while I make less and less money, and at end game it actually seems like I'll probably be losing money, especially if my children get their own parties.
It seems across the board we are making less and less while everything gets more expensive after each update. What is this, the Calradian depression? Why is Taleworlds setting up an unavoidable economic crisis in their own game? The game is getting grindier and grindier for a pair of socks and I can barely find top tier armor.
 
it's early access, who cares about balance

Exactly, get everything working first. Then fix the balance.

Priorities: Perks, they should work. Troops, fix the stats/gear. Kingdom Management: We need some diplomacy as well as more commands to give to Vassals/Parties under our command. AI: Sieges in general need lots of love.

Not a priority: Economy, Tournaments, Caravans.

Yet that's what they seem to be focusing on sadly. At least someone is trying to fix crashes which is nice.
 
Yay somebody else said it! Money is not going to be balanced for a long time and doesn't need to be. We are starting new games all the time and making it harder to stabilize is just making it harder for us to find bugs and such in the mid game and probably making people stop playing sooner.
Having too much money is no problem, not being able to buy 200k lordly armor is a problem. But even that is not a serious problem.
It's not even that I care about if shops and caravans make more or less money, it's disappointing me very much that work is being wasted on this when the game still runs sub par on 8 gb ram 3.60gh systems, the skill/perk is unfinished, no basic make own kingdom/diplomacy.

I think TW needs a manager or like the video game equivalent of a record producer to keep them in line on getting a basic-working game to start with.
 
Let's compare money in native warband to money in native EA bannerlord
In Warband, wages were weekly. Bannerlord, they're daily.
In Warband, the best enterprise was dyeworks, endgame was a dyeworks in every town. Financial stability was critical to the mid game before joining a kingdom as villages could not pay your wages. In Bannerlord, the best enterprise is...was pottery, now I'll be completely honest, I don't even know because there is no way to tell how much you'll make before buying something. Who knows what it will be next update? Will workshops even be worth it?
In Warband, your party size was very small. Im talking, like, 70 dudes by the end of the game unless you have 10 in leadership. In Bannerlord, your party size can likely get up to 500 with maxed stewardship perks - I'm only estimating here, as the perks aren't implemented. Assuming this army is elite and not recruits, you'll be spending at least 5000 on your party alone by 500 troops. This doesn't include garrisons, companion parties which are capped at 80, caravan wages or policies.
In Warband, the most money you'd make was from a town, and that is what would get you into the millions by the end of the game. I believe my character had 1.5 million after conquering Calradia, and like Bannerlord, I had nothing to spend money on. But what I did spend money on up until that point was upgrades to town, good armor, lordly armor, masterwork weapons, and it wasn't really had all that taken care of did I really accumulate wealth. In Bannerlord, I make a majority of my money from fiefs, and a majority of my expenses go into my party, clan parties, and garrisons in that order. This is at what is considered late game. I can't buy new armor because I can't find it, I have 3 million denars, I'm independent, and I'm still wearing a kilt, granted its a very nice kilt. Upgrades barely cost anything (nothing if you don't put money in reserve), and its extremely fast to upgrade things. In Warband, the upgrades were expensive and very noticeable. Bannerlord, the best upgrade is walls, everything else seems to hurt you in the long run. More prosperity? Less food. Less food? Less prosperity until the cycle repeats itself. Weapons and armor however went up to astronomical prices, while I make less and less money, and at end game it actually seems like I'll probably be losing money, especially if my children get their own parties.
It seems across the board we are making less and less while everything gets more expensive after each update. What is this, the Calradian depression? Why is Taleworlds setting up an unavoidable economic crisis in their own game? The game is getting grindier and grindier for a pair of socks and I can barely find top tier armor.

Well said, I wish this would reach the developers somehow, because it seems they are not testing the early game at all.

I already started five different playthroughs, at each one I thought I would progress faster since I was more well adjusted to current mechanics and would have less bugs to deal and an improved version of the game. I was taking notes to somehow send as feedback, however each new playthrough have an even slower progression (money-wise). Right now I just hope that saved games don’t stop being compatible because I do not want to start a new game at all, just to imagine all the slow and tedious things we need to do until the game starts being enjoyable is not a good thought.
 
...., it's disappointing me very much that work is being wasted on this when the game still runs sub par on 8 gb ram 3.60gh systems, the skill/perk is unfinished, no basic make own kingdom/diplomacy.

^^^ Perfect. This is basically the real issue. I mean, the economy balancing is essential and important for this game. But it should not be anywhere near priority right now. And as you perfectly say, nerfing now, at this stage, just makes it harder for players to test the fundamental mechanics (most of which are busted).

But don't get me wrong...money SHOULD be nerfed and nerfed megahard :wink: just not now.
 
???? what this mean lol things need to be nerfed, you act like they just working on things one thing at a time
That's exactly what it looks like, though. If TW actually has something awesome just around the riverbend, I wish they'd at least communicate it. At the moment, all we see is nerf after nerf and no ideas what they're actually working on.
 
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