Please nerf archers one way or another.

[Wregghhh]

I completely disagree, I already feel like troops have too much HP.

Sometimes I can put 3 arrows into a soldier and they don't die. Sometimes even 2-3 for a peasant/recruit. This is NOT realistic.
2-3 arrows into an unarmored target should kill them.

Low tier archer/bow accurary needs to be nerfed so it doesn't happen so often though, unless they blob.

i was just stating the current easiest method to make battles better. Otherwise, the battles last a minute and its over. Archers are too accurate, archer skill doesn't affect the accuracy much at all. 100v100 battles just have archers kill everything and cavalry mop everything up. infantry aren't even needed. Buffing the HP I actually get the enemy troops reach my lines and have a fight.

or they just need to nerf archers and make them all like the Stugian archers which are trash troops. Remove armor from all archers and cav archers, decease accuracy, decrease damage to the 50's and lower on bows.

 

[Razorts]

Indeed biggest problem is low tier troops in the armies, there is a fix for that on the nexus, grab Training tweak mod from the nexus and make sure to enable tweaks for non player parties, the second mod you can get is bannerlord tweaks it ads ability to change amount of xp training building gives to garrisoned troops you besides other tweaks, you can dissable or tweak everything else to your liking, with those 2 mods setup properly i rarely see armies full of recruits anymore.
Oh and health rebalance mod is highly recommended

 

[Waybook]

i was just stating the current easiest method to make battles better. Otherwise, the battles last a minute and its over. Archers are too accurate, archer skill doesn't affect the accuracy much at all. 100v100 battles just have archers kill everything and cavalry mop everything up. infantry aren't even needed. Buffing the HP I actually get the enemy troops reach my lines and have a fight.

or they just need to nerf archers and make them all like the Stugian archers which are trash troops. Remove armor from all archers and cav archers, decease accuracy, decrease damage to the 50's and lower on bows.

Or just give the lower tier troops shields and spears. Shields will buff them against archers and spears will buff them against cavalry. I did that in my game and it did help. Although I'm probably going to buff their skills too. Make at least athletics higher, so they reach my troops faster.

 

[Waybook]

Indeed biggest problem is low tier troops in the armies, there is a fix for that on the nexus, grab Training tweak mod from the nexus and make sure to enable tweaks for non player parties, the second mod you can get is bannerlord tweaks it ads ability to change amount of xp training building gives to garrisoned troops you besides other tweaks, you can dissable or tweak everything else to your liking, with those 2 mods setup properly i rarely see armies full of recruits anymore.

The problem with that is that NPC lords can create new armies really quick right now.

 

[Razorts]

NPC factions have multiple lords shuffling troops from villages to garrisons non stop from start of the game, of course they recruit armies "fast". It gets even worse when they start recruiting mercenaries or more clan members are added

 

[Waybook]

NPC factions have multiple lords shuffling troops from villages to garrisons non stop from start of the game, of course they recruit armies "fast".

Didn't know that. A smart move, TBH.

 

[Catskinner]

One further issue with archery in its current form is that unshielded 'advanced' infantry are not worth having. I have stopped following any experience path that leads to a billman/pikeman/etc because they just die to arrows, all the time. Presumably there is a design reason for these units to exist in the game but currently they are just targets.

 

[Waybook]

One further issue with archery in its current form is that unshielded 'advanced' infantry are not worth having. I have stopped following any experience path that leads to a billman/pikeman/etc because they just die to arrows, all the time. Presumably there is a design reason for these units to exist in the game but currently they are just targets.

Maybe they work well if you put them in a separate formation and hold them back until the melee infantry are fighting?
I haven't tested how strong they are, but if they turn out to be powerful in melee fights, then using them for charging and flanking into a melee fight can work well. Just need to keep them back until then.

 

[Chad Thunderchicken]

I think one possible nerf that has not been mentioned could be lower rate of "fire". 12 per minute was the average rate of "fire" for English longbowman in 1300s and it seems like archers in game shoot way more then that without any fatigue. This nerf was done in Viking Conquest and 1257 AD mod and it worked pretty well where archers were not completely useless but they couldnt mow down everything with ease.

 

[Stromming]

I think one possible nerf that has not been mentioned could be lower rate of "fire". 12 per minute was the average rate of "fire" for English longbowman in 1300s and it seems like archers in game shoot way more then that without any fatigue. This nerf was done in Viking Conquest and 1257 AD mod and it worked pretty well where archers were not completely useless but they couldnt mow down everything with ease.

This is one of the better ideas in this thread.

 

[Archonsod]

Archers aren't the problem, it's the AI.

Firstly, archers are way too accurate, it's like every AI has aimbot on.

Not really. There's some significant scatter on the arrow over range even if you max out your bow skill, and the AI archers don't have maximum skill. The problem is the AI has a tendency to bunch up, particularly when it's decided to attack a target and even if ordered into a loose formation. Once the AI adopts it's favoured rugby scrum formation accuracy tends to be irrelevant - you can shoot without letting the crosshairs close and still be guaranteed to hit *something*.

Second, to many unshielded infantry in armies, the vast majority of AI troops are composed of low tier infantry who don't have shields.

Only partially fixes it. The old M&B trick still works (to great success in captain mode) as the AI will nearly always turn towards the closest threat. Stand a little forward and to the side of your archer line and the AI will obediently open itself up for enfilade as it decides to pursue you. It becomes a huge issue as soon as you introduce cavalry since it'll cheerfully turn to face the horseman running along behind it even while under sustained fire from the front, allowing even shielded infantry to be reduced to pincushions in short order.
The problem is that the AI in M&B has always operated on an individual rather than a group level so when it perceives a close threat it ends up with 95% of the army pursuing it Benny Hill style rather than doing something more sensible like securing a 2:1 advantage against that threat while retaining the majority of it's force against the larger enemy force. This is also what tends to make archers seem overpowered simply because they're usually further away - if you watch the AI what tends to happen is that it'll focus on much closer melee infantry or cavalry even when it would otherwise have the opportunity to break through and pursue the archers, leaving them plenty of time to pull back and continue shooting.

Third thing is that archers are too effective in close range, reaching the archer line doesn't mean much as when you engage one of them, the rest of them easily shoot you with 100% accuracy.

What precisely are you expecting at point blank range? The problem there is 'engaging one of them'. You'll notice a similar problem even with melee infantry in that when you engage one of them their friends have this annoying habit of stabbing you in the back of the head

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Just don't make infantry?
Don't depend on AI allies in live battles?
I'm all for units getting better programming (not AI) and shields, but infantry being stinky is nothing new in mount and blade.
Can't move fast, can't attack at range.... put them in garrison and leave them there.
What is best infantry unit? A knight who lost his horse.
Second best?sharpshooter out of bolts.
And the AI lords never made good armies, accept Rhodoks in their garrisons.

 

[kekkuli5]

I find that the health pool on troops is too low. By doubling it, it makes the battles last longer, makes infantry not die to one or two arrows and makes it better in general. I really think weapons deal too much damage or the easier approach is to just double the health pool. Even adding 50 more hp to units makes the battles better.

No way. This game already makes people damage sponges in some cases. You can literally shoot a looter 3 times with a bow and he won't necessarily die. Even headshots against unarmored heads don't always kill. And then there's polearms and 2h axes with 130+ damage that can one shot anyone, no matter the armor.

 

[enemy_man]

Archery skill has too little impact on accuracy imo. You can aim almost perfectly even with very low skill. Low tier AI archers have very good accuracy. I also think arrows should be able to glance off armor like in Warband. In Bannerlord you will be consistently damaged by the worst ranged weapons in the game even when you have the best armor which is unfun, bad for balance and completely unrealistic.

 

[Orkmann]

A major issue is the AI's inability to use shields properly. This is partially because the AI is not using the shield wall formation, but also because the game considers shield blocking as an action, rather than a passive/default stance. This is working fine is melee, but somehow the AI tend to forget this against archers. So even if the AI has only shielded infantry they just run towards the archers, and get massacred.

I also agree with @Chad Thunderchicken, the rate of fire is a problem too. Warbows should have much slower speed. This could be nicely balanced, eg. to have longbows with armor penetration and slow rate of fire, while horse archers and such should be able to fire very quickly but should be ineffective against armor, except maybe from point blank range.

But it is not only the archers, imho the whole ranged combat should be redesigned, because throwing weapons are op too. I am OK with their damage potential, but their range should significantly reduced. It is nuts that javis are thrown from 60 meters with deadly accuracy. For reference the javelin throwing world record is 98 meter, with a run up and light javelin designed to fly and not for combat.

 

[bantad87]

Does archer accuracy even matter, when they are shooting at a blob of enemies?
Also, in my current game, Sturgia declared war on Aserai and I'm the only one actually fighting the Aserai, yet that's enough to cause their armies to be 50% recruits. This is why I'd prefer giving the recruits shields.and buffing them in other ways as well.

I made this change in my own game, as well as tweaking the armor to be 75% more effective, then I reduced pierce damage ability to penetrate armor, and now archers are a true supporting role.

 

[Nokturnel]

It'd be fine for archers to just slaughter Bandits/Looters/Recruits really easily, but currently they kill anything with ease, especially Horse Archers as they just flank any shield walls easily. There's already a mod out that increases the effectiveness of armor vs arrows, but that should just be placed into the vanilla game as well as buffing the last tier of certain armies to have better armor. Max level infantry shouldn't be forced to only use shields if they don't want archers to rip them to shreds.

 

[Evrieleth]

I think a good change could be changing bow's damage type. In viking conquest bows were cut damage weapons, making them really good against lightly armored target and kinda meh against heavy armor users like they should be. Moreover i think armor should feel more protective, if i'm wearing a full plate armor i shouldn't recieve 30 damage to the leg from a random recruit swinging his sword (not spear) while i'm charging him on a chain barded horse.