It's in EA... Should it excuse "everything"?

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Again your issue. is assuming all this. this is YOUR opinion. if you want to find someone that wants to share it with you. it's not me.

Assuming people didn't look for posts about their subject before posting a new thread? Like you did?

At this point you're basically trolling your own thread. Granted you probably know that. Just thought I'd point it out in case you didn't.

?
 
I'm sorry you feel baited. Hopefully you understand that I'm sorry for that. Not my intention whatsoever.

No, Their saying you constantly addressing every person, and then openly telling them to be quiet, or drop it is in itself baiting and confrontational. I think, sorry if I also missed what you were saying. Definitely not them feeling attacked personally tho.

Oh and a final note to anyone who see's this, Every thread with the words EA, early, and the word excuse in their contents. Took me less than 5 seconds in advanced search.
 
No, Their saying you constantly addressing every person, and then openly telling them to be quiet, or drop it is in itself baiting and confrontational. I think, sorry if I also missed what you were saying. Definitely not them feeling attacked personally tho.

Oh and a final note to anyone who see's this, Every thread with the words EA, early, and the word excuse in their contents. Took me less than 5 seconds in advanced search.
Okay well the fact is, I'm opening this back up because I do stand up for myself. No one other then you said that I'am constantly addressing every person. I'am true. But because I want a conversation or to defend myself. I'am being attacked, and I'm not the only person here that thinks that.
I don't like feeling harassed. No one does? Do you understand that?
Do you also understand that whatever I perceive you should respect that it is what it is? If you want to tell me how you perceive something, try not to be so hostile with it to convince me that your right about certain things.
Online and internet bullying is a thing. I've lost too many battle-buddy's to let things like this pass up.
 
Here we go again...

Look, the way I see it it's pretty simple. Is this the best game they could have developed and released in EA? No, definitely not. So, what are we going to do about it? Well there seem to be three options.

1) Refund, leave the game for now and maybe you'll buy it again after release. Maybe not. Totally respectable choice if you don't enjoy the game. Hell, I thought about it myself after my first hour.
2) Play the game anyway because you enjoy it despite its many defects, provide constructive criticism and suggestions, and hopefully the devs will listen and it will be fixed in time. That's what I went with, and so far I am not regretting it.
3) Make threads about how the game sucks, and it is shameful that they take our money for it, and EA is no excuse, I paid money I should have a complete product.

Your post came off as 3). 3) is not good, because 3) doesn't leave any space for improvement. When you choose 3) you are going all doom and gloom, and negating the possibility that this game will ever amount to much. 3) is bitter and resentful and would like everyone else to feel the same way 3) does because this game is no fun at all, and everyone else should see that.

This is how many players answering will see you. And because there were many, many, many toxic threads on this topic they will go for your throat, which in turn incites more anger and it's all a big mess. Admittedly I have definitely seen posts that were much worse that your opening post, but it's become a bit of an exposed nerve.

I hope that makes sense, and now please let's stop with the attacks to each other. It really does no good to anyone.

Edit: if you want an example of a fantastic way to provide feedback, there you go:


This is I would say the best feedback thread I have read on this forum.
 
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Here we go again...

I hope that makes sense, and now please let's stop with the attacks to each other. It really does no good to anyone.
You're not arguing any points that haven't been resolved already. Even the trolling, or the doom and gloom as you stated. Just not about the improvement on my end, but that's about it.
The flaming, trolling or harassment is completely separate from the games issues, as you read. Those were addressed quite tactfully by Mabons
about improvement: And there's plenty to improve if you know how and where to look and how to ask a simple question the right way. This also depends on the said person. one person can understand a lot about the game and it's issues while others do not. If I were to make the decision that there is no room for improvement for anyone, how can anyone expect to be knowledgeable about any subject? I learned a lot about the game here then anything I've read on steam, that's mostly the reason why I'am even here. Just NO one even took the time to even ASK me why I was here on the first place.
Look at Mabons >posts as they are all very great examples<
Your solutions are of this all great solutions. Depending on the person. I'm sorry all you saw was bitterness and doom and gloom. But I don't focus on those things, and if others are, I try to make a good point that there's other perspectives.
 
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Most of the problems can be dismissed as we can expect them to be fixed during the EA phase, however there are also some issues that are worrying and more disappointing because they represent a lack of improvement in design philosophy.

Siege AI, and strategic AI behavior in general, is definitely one of those more serious problems. The AI is simply very very stupid and behaves almost exactly, if not worse, than it did in warband.

I was expecting the AI to be unfinished, to be unpolished as per early access disclaimers, but I did not expect it to be the same old kind of stupid as before. The best we can hope for here is that the Bannerlord AI is still completely unimplemented in the game, and what we are seeing is a version of the old warband AI being used as a placeholder. I really hope the benny hill siege behavior is not here to stay, and that troops running mindlessly forward into a chaotic charge is not something we'll see in the finished game. It's 2020 and the AI should feel more dynamic and give the illusion of intelligence rather than feel scripted, because that is how it feels now, like a fairly primitive script.

Next best we can hope for is that the AI is moddable in depth I suppose, and that some genius in the modding scene will fix it for us.

The combat AI, the one that handles individual fighting, is pretty good though. At least the high combat skill enemies use some feints and stuff. Big improvement over warband in that respect, it's just a shame that the strategic AI isn't a match and sometimes they seem to figh each other like when enemies are magically dragged into some scripted direction in sieges while flailing helplessly at you with their weapons while running backwards. Like "hey my combat AI want's to fight you but the siege script wants me to run that way, sorry".

I also think it's pretty concerning that the UI and dialogues isn't improved from warband, again I get that it's not finished and that's not the problem, the problem is that it doesn't feel like a new unfinished design in EA, it feels like they just did it the exact same way.

I was also expecting to see much more dynamic NPC behavior in cities and villages, that just walking down a street would feel immersive and convincing and that there would be natural and dynamic interaction with people. Now again there is no doubt it's unfinished, but it doesn't look like the design philosophy is in that direction, again everything feels like a primitive script rather than AI. More like a wax cabinette with dolls repeating their movements than a modern computer game. The bar maids are filling the same two cups forever, the dancers do their moves over and over, and most of the townspeople just stand awkwardly in their spot. Now is this all about early access? Really?

I still think it's going to be a fantastic game though, in many ways it already is.
 
Most of the problems can be dismissed as we can expect them to be fixed during the EA phase, however there are also some issues that are worrying and more disappointing because they represent a lack of improvement in design philosophy.

(comments on AI)

I still think it's going to be a fantastic game though, in many ways it already is.
Most of the problems can be dismissed?
What problems do you mean exactly? I do know most of the obvious ones and the AI but I've learned from some people on this tread that these issues were in warband and in the bannerlord beta and they HAVEN'T been addressed. Or maybe I'm not taking it the right way.
Mabons
Is very convincing when it came to that (the same issues keep coming up I suppose?)
I can't word it like he didm you'll have to look at his posts.
 
Most of the problems can be dismissed?
What problems do you mean exactly?

What I mean is that problems that simply looks like unfinished content, bugs or placeholders are not worth complaining about. For example there is no reason to complain about the lack of hair colours, or the disabled perks and so on. Also balance issues between troops and factions or in the economy system should be expected during EA.

So there are a lot of problems that don't bother me because I know they are simply about the game being unfinished, and I'm happy to help test and give feeback.

The real problems are the ones that look like a bad design direction, and therefore cannot just be dismissed with "early access" arguments, the AI is one of those. It shouldn't feel this stupid, buggy and unfinished for sure, but not this primitive.
 
This is fine, the problem here (which the OP admitted to) is people not looking to see if the problem was already voiced or addressed. What's more noticeable a bunch of threads spread far apart about a subject, or one huge megathread that gets put at the top of the page?

People immediately go to complain instead of looking into their own issue, see if it's been resolved (via a future patch or temp fix) or addressed. It's not that people don't like the complaints, we don't like the lack of organization and lack of effort on the complainers part before posting.
Well I think it's okay for them to voice their concerns anyways if they want to. Also for some types of things it is useful to see just how many people have a problem or opinion. For instance a wide range a PC builds have performance issues, so it good to see this being voiced frequently because it is common and persisting. People have a lot of variation in their negative experience with the leveling/skill/perk system and many ideas on what would be better, it's good to see it.
 
Well I think it's okay for them to voice their concerns anyways if they want to. Also for some types of things it is useful to see just how many people have a problem or opinion. For instance a wide range a PC builds have performance issues, so it good to see this being voiced frequently because it is common and persisting. People have a lot of variation in their negative experience with the leveling/skill/perk system and many ideas on what would be better, it's good to see it.
You gotta be the squeaky wheel when you want something. No ones going to do it for you, so I totally understand repeating the same things over and over again is important for the reasons you stated
 
Ten years of TW, Ability, efficiency and choice should be questioned, but only certification and intention should be recognized. These clumsiness, willfulness, stubborn Turks don't have the resources of 3A large factory; experience; ability and sleek, TW and the developers of Metro series are the same. The number of people is not much far away, the condition is backward, the background is ordinary, and the only difference between them is their works, ordinary TW use A small force solves a big problem and creates an extraordinary story of a new type of game known as Mount & Blade. Isn't that the story of Mount & Blade? The ordinary born founder of TW started from a remote place called ide in Turkey. Two people went all the way to fight and recruit soldiers. In the world dominated by big game companies, he established his own country in decades. Although it is not as powerful as the Empire, it has become famous in the world. We need to ask TW how to dominate. There is nothing else but Mount & Blade.
 
You're totally right. EA is EA, but there are things where you still should see change. It just means that this change doesn't have to be completely working, not that it's ok to have a 1:1 copy of an older game with slightly better optics, but even LESS features.

Also 8 years are 8 years and it's totally valid to ask what has been done in that long time.
Reading what they said at the early access also seems that there is not as much to come as i would have expected for a M&B2 after this long time. If you have another opinion: Fine! But don't insult people for having their own, as long as they can justify their thoughts!

Throughout the game i am asking myself several times if TW have even played it for more thatn 20min and if they even wanted it to improve and give you more possibilities. Instead they made a lot of things more superficial, deleted tactical options, worsened the AI on battle field and campaign map and made it more grindy and linear. And those are not just things you can ascribe to it being in EA!
 
Ten years of TW, Ability, efficiency and choice should be questioned, but only certification and intention should be recognized. These clumsiness, willfulness, stubborn Turks don't have the resources of 3A large factory; experience; ability and sleek, TW and the developers of Metro series are the same. The number of people is not much far away, the condition is backward, the background is ordinary, and the only difference between them is their works, ordinary TW use A small force solves a big problem and creates an extraordinary story of a new type of game known as Mount & Blade. Isn't that the story of Mount & Blade? The ordinary born founder of TW started from a remote place called ide in Turkey. Two people went all the way to fight and recruit soldiers. In the world dominated by big game companies, he established his own country in decades. Although it is not as powerful as the Empire, it has become famous in the world. We need to ask TW how to dominate. There is nothing else but Mount & Blade.

Well said, still there could be done more and they could have been more transparent on everything.
Especially because of our love for this franchise they could always have asked modders to help them with certain tasks.
 
I'll tell you what isn't excusable in EA; the whole ****ing leveling system.

It is disgraceful there still hasn't been a fix for the rate of XP. Its disgraceful you have to farm looters to level your party. Its disgraceful I've only seen a companion level ONCE. Its disgraceful the perks don't even ****ing work. How could you mess that up after 8 years of development?

Like I said, its expected that not all systems in an EA game will work, but for something as fundamental as character progression to be so completely and utterly borked is beyond words.
 
Wow this whole thread has been a wild ride. I can only comment on my own experience.

Even though its in EA, I feel as though I've gotten my money's worth. I've got 90+ hours in. There are alot of small things that are easy miss. These will inevitably impact one's playthrough.

Would I like better ai? Yes. Seige ai? Yes. Missing perks or non working perks? Faction strength issues? Diplomacy? I agree with alot of what is said.

However I have generally had a great time with the game. And if you look at other companies trying to genre bend like this, there just arent very many if at all.

But I still have hope this will get better in the future. It's a promising start. I don't necessarily agree with anyone saying they should uninstall... the game has issues and I've had that back and forth myself. But once you learn how to play in the constraints the game provides I think you can have a really good time.
 
This topic in general is something you will not get any useful information from. Because what would the answer of this question change. Lets say everyone is on par and says "no it cannot excuse the state of the game" what is the conclusion then? does everyone then akwardly sitting quietly next to each other and then ask "hm and what we do now???" Do you think the devs feel then ashamed and go home and cry and say to their wifes and husbands "I failed my gaming community"? Or do you think the devs will start working harder faster more to exhaustion? These kind of threads are just polarising and have no other meaning. Even if you say you wanted to provide feedback then yes ok go and provide constructive feedback on some matters but this "essential" philosophical question "Should we let them go away with it." in core is just hilariously unproductive. Please guys just don't answer to those threads its not worth the time and the sense behind it is just not constructive at all.
 
another thread like that... yeah, there are so many games out there... you can play something else... for me as big mount&blade fan the game already offers enough for me with more to come.. spent 98 hours so far (125 in total but there's some idle time)
by the way i'm using 21 mods right now. Stuff like "no dialog"(+loading screen) when engaging bandits/lords, "Autotrade", "perk fixes", "village patrols", "fast loot", "no dragon banner timeout", "unit fixes", "CutThrough" (chance to hit multiple targets when riding fast into a crowd with a sword)


//edit: just found a few new mods I'm gonna try: "dismemberment", "send troops" into hideout and maybe "control your allies after death"
 
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It is a fair excuse, no one forced anyone to buy the game right now. They clearly told us in the description what you can expect, and years ago way before the alpha/beta started why they wont tell us a clear release date.
They might be slow, but what can we do right?

The game is still so unique, that is why a lot of us kept coming back to the forums (i personally just registered back in october, but been following the forums since the very start) to check on any updates of the game, cause the pain of waiting is real.

I understand some frustrations, but it is how it is, they are working pretty well fetching out new updates almost everyday, just check on other ea titles, some release their game to early access, and you see no update for weeks/months.

if you also take a look at nexus mods, you can see how many new/old features modders made for the game already.
 
I will wrote samething diffrent.
Its some right, its some wrong. Its EA so its not full game, so deal with it. But at its performance game is close to prealpha (my opnion). But actually im ok with it, because devs listen players and probably game would go with right direction (i hope). So yes, they been bit lazy, but game goes to right direction.
 
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