I'd love to see that. My brain is incapable of differentiating between overhead and right-hand swings. 90% of the blocks I miss come from those directions.
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SP - Battles & Sieges Auto-block in singleplayer
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I'd love to see that. My brain is incapable of differentiating between overhead and right-hand swings. 90% of the blocks I miss come from those directions.
I came into Bannerlord wanting to be better at manual blocking, since I never was very good at it. I did not notice autoblock was gone. I spent some time in the training grounds and went on my way. At this point I'm still not great with manual blocking, but I mostly (but not always) play from horseback with a shield where it is less of an issue. I wrote this just to provide a little perspective of where I am coming from. At the same time, I understand it can be frustrating to not have the autoblocking feature there that you want to play with.
But here's the thing. At the end of the beta, I realized I was was better with a 2h, even with poor blocks, because my vulnerability in blocking makes me focus more on positioning, and made me realize I could be a lot more aggressive. I was timid with a shield, but learned how to fight better in the end with the shield taken away.
Even though I chose to work on manual blocking before hand, I feel like a lot of players may discover it is not that bad to be forced into it in the end. And gosh, it kinda sucks to say this, but I expect most people would never try manual blocking without being forced into it. Still, I expect many will find they enjoy manual blocking, after an initial period, and are more effective in ways they were not expecting when their disadvantage at blocking causes them to focus on other important combat skills. Some of these are those like positioning, and knowing when to commit to attacks, and following up on those attacks.
That said, I still totally understand the frustration. I would ask a lot of you to just give manual blocking another chance, and if you end up like me still being quite bad at it, focus on other ways to become effective such as positioning and knowing when to commit to attacks. Also, I would stay away from 1h without shield. That can be very tough to become good at, though you would look like a total badass!
But here's the thing. At the end of the beta, I realized I was was better with a 2h, even with poor blocks, because my vulnerability in blocking makes me focus more on positioning, and made me realize I could be a lot more aggressive. I was timid with a shield, but learned how to fight better in the end with the shield taken away.
Even though I chose to work on manual blocking before hand, I feel like a lot of players may discover it is not that bad to be forced into it in the end. And gosh, it kinda sucks to say this, but I expect most people would never try manual blocking without being forced into it. Still, I expect many will find they enjoy manual blocking, after an initial period, and are more effective in ways they were not expecting when their disadvantage at blocking causes them to focus on other important combat skills. Some of these are those like positioning, and knowing when to commit to attacks, and following up on those attacks.
That said, I still totally understand the frustration. I would ask a lot of you to just give manual blocking another chance, and if you end up like me still being quite bad at it, focus on other ways to become effective such as positioning and knowing when to commit to attacks. Also, I would stay away from 1h without shield. That can be very tough to become good at, though you would look like a total badass!
Taleworlds has really been pushing the "easy to learn, hard to master" combat of Mount and Blade in their marketing, they've said it in interviews and it's even listed in the features on their website. I think automating a basic skill of that combat system because it's too hard would spit in the face of that statement. TW removing autoblock might be them saying "hey, our combat system is fun and not that hard to learn, please give it an honest try!".
What's your point? Are you trying to argue the combat system is better with autoblock? Kicking was also added in Warband, should we remove that just because it wasn't in the original release? If a friend that was new to the game asked me today what setting I recommended, I would say manual blocking because even if it wasn't available in a legacy version of the series, it's still the superior experience now.
I'd say it's the opposite. In a shooter that's the only way I can play, if I suck, then without autoaim I legitimately can't play the game and yet it would be pretty ridiculous to ask for that just because of my own shortcomings. In mount and blade, there's lots of ways to play the game, you don't even need to fight if you don't want to or are incapable. It's less reasonable to ask for a handicap when it doesn't actually prevent you from playing the game.
My position isn't "screw noobs, learn to block" but "blocking isn't as hard as you think and you'll ultimately get more enjoyment out of the game if you learn". It's hard love but I think autoblocking is one of the reasons a lot of people tend to overlook the combat of this series, and if they were to actually try it they might realize it's pretty fun. Maybe they'll try MP, jump to MP mods, maybe more games with a similar combat system will be made and they'll play those as well. Autoblock marginalizes a combat system that doesn't deserve to be ignored.
So, the basic argument here is:
Yes, cool argument, true to some point, not gonna lie there. However, why does your experience need to dictate others'? Why does your worldview of fun have to be the fundamental point others have to have fun on?
Yes, cheaters have less satisfaction playing games, because they don't have to go through the arduous hardships of skill-learning. Does that stop them? Hardly.
The same argument satisfies claims like these: "Why do you want to spend time sitting on a chair making-believe you're a knight/king/kwhatever, when you can just lease a horse, call about 560 friends, all of you buy some make-believe armors and do the actual physical fighting, that way you have to use your own body to play! You maintain your health (exercise) AND have fun!". Cool.
Or better yet: "Why do you play football games, fifa and whatnot, when you can just buy a ball for about 15 bucks or less, and kick it around, instead of making-believe while you're sitting?"
The reasonably appropriate response to these, and similar, is "Because I want to." Why do you want autoblock when you can simply learn the blocking system? Because I want to.
Now for the personal subjective part of the post.
I've played M&B for the last 12 years on autoblock. I just couldn't do it manually. Didn't really care much for it, the game was too cartoonish for me to care about such menial chore.
Now BL is here, and I wanted to try manual, because the animations and graphics look so much better, and it makes sense now. My brain can intuitively understand manual blocking now. It works, I am having fun with that. But I am sure I am blocked off two-handed weapons for now. And I wanted to try them, but I am still getting used to the good combat AI, and the combat is much harder with manual blocking. My mind is itching for autoblock, but I know I'm having fun for now. I am, really, having fun, especially in tournaments. I get those chills when I'm low on health, and it's fun, and when I win, it's such a joy to know I did it on my own...
For now.
Under quarantine, from a global pandemic.
I am finally able to stay at home and be able to work from home, instead of wasting 4 hours every day commuting. Yeah, I'm finally having the free time to spend on the game and learn it, and the game graphics and feeling makes combat make sense.
I'm not sure how long I'll have the patience/resilience to stay on manual. Now imagine I'm forced to do this forever. It's more fun, yes, for duels and few men combat. But as many have already said, the game has tons of other things other than combat.The simple commander mechanics work much better now, if a bit convoluted. You can just command troops from afar and never have to block anything. But what if I just want to hack and slash away some battanian lords? What if I don't have the free time to spend trying to learn (AND KEEP) the blocking skillz? Because it is mostly reflexes. It's fine and dandy when you're 22 years old. It's normal when you're 28. But when you reach 30, 40, 60... It's not so easy to keep up visual reflexes. I have eyesight problems, it makes it harder to look at the enemies, I can't be bothered to play first person forever, what if I have a potato computer that can barely render the good graphics? What then? "Just buy a better PC", yeah, daddy's credit card pays all, amirite?
There are hundreds of variants and possibilities for why having autoblock is good. I will agree with this:
- You can try and reduce combat AI too, yes, which will make every enemy dumber, which is not the point. Someone who wants autoblock just doesn't want to have to have 60fps perfect vision to try and fight some 500 men battle, where other 6 enemies might come around and surround you. It makes sense in tournaments, of course, but it's hard on someone trying to fight real battles.
- Just grab a shield - then you have no two-handers, so you lose a good portion of cool weapons from the game, whereas if you autoblock, you just don't have that "ive won a challenge" feeling. So it's either lose actual empirical things from the game, which you will not be able to use, or lose some subjective feeling, a feel randoms are saying is good on the internet? Material vs subjective, maybe I'd rather take my chances losing something subjective here, but still have fun with all the other actual features in the game.
Some people have very stressful lives, don't have the money for therapy, have no safety net of any sort, have no family, no nothing other than themselves. Now you want to force them to keep their reflexes up, just because you think having good reflexes for a virtual game is more fun? Maybe we should stop comparing personal opinions here, and thinking on the bigger picture, something like the collective good, like the choice yo have it ON or OFF?
All of this, just to say: if you can choose it, no one will complain. So add it in, maybe?
Sidenote, perhaps: you can keep the directional defence for shields, since it still blocks. It just breaks your shield more, while not really risking your life. I think autoblock only when you're using a weapon with no shield makes sense enough. If it's doable. Maybe another togglable option, maybe?
Yes, cool argument, true to some point, not gonna lie there. However, why does your experience need to dictate others'? Why does your worldview of fun have to be the fundamental point others have to have fun on?
Yes, cheaters have less satisfaction playing games, because they don't have to go through the arduous hardships of skill-learning. Does that stop them? Hardly.
The same argument satisfies claims like these: "Why do you want to spend time sitting on a chair making-believe you're a knight/king/kwhatever, when you can just lease a horse, call about 560 friends, all of you buy some make-believe armors and do the actual physical fighting, that way you have to use your own body to play! You maintain your health (exercise) AND have fun!". Cool.
Or better yet: "Why do you play football games, fifa and whatnot, when you can just buy a ball for about 15 bucks or less, and kick it around, instead of making-believe while you're sitting?"
The reasonably appropriate response to these, and similar, is "Because I want to." Why do you want autoblock when you can simply learn the blocking system? Because I want to.
Personal freedom, personal choice. That's why. And I was quite happy that TW took that route for most of the features of the game. My old ON/OFF argument at its best. You want it on? Turn it ON. Want it off? Turn it OFF. Why? Who the hell cares? No one but you, your god, your spouse and some random people on the internet trying to dictate how you should play your games. And only one of these matter. Your spouse's.
Now for the personal subjective part of the post.
I've played M&B for the last 12 years on autoblock. I just couldn't do it manually. Didn't really care much for it, the game was too cartoonish for me to care about such menial chore.
Now BL is here, and I wanted to try manual, because the animations and graphics look so much better, and it makes sense now. My brain can intuitively understand manual blocking now. It works, I am having fun with that. But I am sure I am blocked off two-handed weapons for now. And I wanted to try them, but I am still getting used to the good combat AI, and the combat is much harder with manual blocking. My mind is itching for autoblock, but I know I'm having fun for now. I am, really, having fun, especially in tournaments. I get those chills when I'm low on health, and it's fun, and when I win, it's such a joy to know I did it on my own...
For now.
Under quarantine, from a global pandemic.
I am finally able to stay at home and be able to work from home, instead of wasting 4 hours every day commuting. Yeah, I'm finally having the free time to spend on the game and learn it, and the game graphics and feeling makes combat make sense.
I'm not sure how long I'll have the patience/resilience to stay on manual. Now imagine I'm forced to do this forever. It's more fun, yes, for duels and few men combat. But as many have already said, the game has tons of other things other than combat.The simple commander mechanics work much better now, if a bit convoluted. You can just command troops from afar and never have to block anything. But what if I just want to hack and slash away some battanian lords? What if I don't have the free time to spend trying to learn (AND KEEP) the blocking skillz? Because it is mostly reflexes. It's fine and dandy when you're 22 years old. It's normal when you're 28. But when you reach 30, 40, 60... It's not so easy to keep up visual reflexes. I have eyesight problems, it makes it harder to look at the enemies, I can't be bothered to play first person forever, what if I have a potato computer that can barely render the good graphics? What then? "Just buy a better PC", yeah, daddy's credit card pays all, amirite?
There are hundreds of variants and possibilities for why having autoblock is good. I will agree with this:
But then again, maybe not everyone wants to give it an honest try, maybe the player just wants everything else, except the blocking feature, and the tabletop gaming in taverns. Yeah, they are not as hard as one might think. But one feature can be completely ignored, the other is a fundamental part of 50% of the game. And some people don't have the age, time, or mental capacity and health to feel frustrated because of blocking. Just because YOU have fun with it, doesn't mean OTHERS will.
- You can try and reduce combat AI too, yes, which will make every enemy dumber, which is not the point. Someone who wants autoblock just doesn't want to have to have 60fps perfect vision to try and fight some 500 men battle, where other 6 enemies might come around and surround you. It makes sense in tournaments, of course, but it's hard on someone trying to fight real battles.
- Just grab a shield - then you have no two-handers, so you lose a good portion of cool weapons from the game, whereas if you autoblock, you just don't have that "ive won a challenge" feeling. So it's either lose actual empirical things from the game, which you will not be able to use, or lose some subjective feeling, a feel randoms are saying is good on the internet? Material vs subjective, maybe I'd rather take my chances losing something subjective here, but still have fun with all the other actual features in the game.
Some people have very stressful lives, don't have the money for therapy, have no safety net of any sort, have no family, no nothing other than themselves. Now you want to force them to keep their reflexes up, just because you think having good reflexes for a virtual game is more fun? Maybe we should stop comparing personal opinions here, and thinking on the bigger picture, something like the collective good, like the choice yo have it ON or OFF?
All of this, just to say: if you can choose it, no one will complain. So add it in, maybe?
Sidenote, perhaps: you can keep the directional defence for shields, since it still blocks. It just breaks your shield more, while not really risking your life. I think autoblock only when you're using a weapon with no shield makes sense enough. If it's doable. Maybe another togglable option, maybe?
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You're right here, if it gets added I won't be upset or frustrated, I'll just shake my head and move on. Ultimately, I'll just wonder why automatic blocking was ever an option in the first place and manual blocking wasn't the one and only default. I can't think of many other games that actually give the option to cripple its combat system to make the game more accessible to people with bad PCs or self-perceived low skill, most take the obvious route and just weaken the AI or reduce damage.
Nearly every game ever made has had automatic blocking direction (assuming you are facing your foe) or at most two directional blocking, including every M&B title up until now.
There are only a handful of titles that have directional blocking, and the most common complaint I've seen about all of them was that blocking system.
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And here we are, back to the point every single one of you seems to make: bringing in MP. As if that's the end-all be-all of someone who plays this. I'd argue MOST mount and blade players never touch multiplayer nor do they want to. I certainly didn't get warband for the multiplayer and I barely play it.
What's the matter with just making it an option? You don't use it, and I suggest keeping the default at manual block. That way new players will be taught with your system, but can switch if they want, like many of us want.
Many people who play this game have disabilities that require it if they wanna play. It isn't a matter of "get good" to them. They literally can't.
One of the main issues here is the complete silence as to why the feature was removed in the first place. There has been complete radio silence on this subject from Taleworlds, and until we know why they chose to remove it there can be no productive discussion of the merits of re-adding it or keeping it removed.
I think the most productive thing for us to do would be to pressure them to explain the rationale for the change in the first place.
We have no idea whether it was removed for what they perceived to be superior gameplay, to remove possible multiplayer exploits, etc. We don't even know whether they already intend to reintroduce it at a later date.
I made a suggestion here asking that they explain the change.
Please do not discuss the merits of adding the mechanic back in or keeping it removed on that suggestion thread. Please only chime in if you think Taleworlds should let us know why it was removed, or to ask them to let us know if it will be readded. If you think they shouldn't do that for some reason... okay, I guess? Chime in too. I would encourage people to push for that explanation so that we can maybe stop bickering and relying on complete speculation, and maybe start having a productive conversation.
I believe this subject has garnered more than enough attention here, on Steam, on reddit, and elsewhere that the fact that they haven't chimed in is, honestly, completely ridiculous.
Cheers,
I think the most productive thing for us to do would be to pressure them to explain the rationale for the change in the first place.
We have no idea whether it was removed for what they perceived to be superior gameplay, to remove possible multiplayer exploits, etc. We don't even know whether they already intend to reintroduce it at a later date.
I made a suggestion here asking that they explain the change.
Please do not discuss the merits of adding the mechanic back in or keeping it removed on that suggestion thread. Please only chime in if you think Taleworlds should let us know why it was removed, or to ask them to let us know if it will be readded. If you think they shouldn't do that for some reason... okay, I guess? Chime in too. I would encourage people to push for that explanation so that we can maybe stop bickering and relying on complete speculation, and maybe start having a productive conversation.
I believe this subject has garnered more than enough attention here, on Steam, on reddit, and elsewhere that the fact that they haven't chimed in is, honestly, completely ridiculous.
Cheers,
You can't compare other games' melee combat systems with Mount and Blade's like that. Chivalry and Mordhau have one direction, but the skill in blocking in those games comes from timing, not direction. Timing your blocks in Mount and Blade is not nearly as important as choosing the correct direction relative to those games. Melee combat in the majority of games isn't very skilled based because they usually are not the main combat focus, in Bannerlord it is.
No, it's not about MP. The point was people learning to use manual blocking might make them enjoy the combat more. Stemming from that, there's a chance they might enjoy it enough to want to try MP, which was something they never wanted to touch before for whatever reason, and maybe they'll actually find it fun enough to continue playing for years. It would be a happy aftereffect, not the reason automatic blocking shouldn't return.
Regarding people with disabilities, it is ideal to make games accessible, but I would think if someone's disability prevents them from manual blocking it would also significantly impede the other aspects of combat (movement, attack directions, horse controls, aiming, etc.). Again, I can't really think of many other games that cater to such a degree to those with disabilities, most shooters don't have an autoaim option for example.
Agreed, TW has the final say and this discussion won't have an effect on what they end up doing. Hopefully they give you an answer soon.
I most certainly can, and just did. How many titles can you name use directional blocking? 90% of those that do are fighting games that have either high or low block, and that's it. In nearly every game on the market that has any form of melee combat to "block" you simply face your target and hit the block key.
I think the major difference here is you want an action game.. a lot of us are here for an RPG.
That said the RPG elements in Bannerlord 76 are so limited that maybe it's no longer fair to consider it an RPG at all. Sadly now it's just a "meh" action game/kingdom simulator where you mostly just waste time until one AI conquers the map.
To me Bannerlord 76 has made the same mistakes that Skyrim and Fallout 4 made. Less focus on the RPG side, more focus on the action side. Which would be fine, if they also didn't mangle the action side....
This is literally people arguing about difficulty. Easy / Medium should be auto-block / partial auto-block. Hard / Very Hard is manual. I can crush most turned based RPGs or strategy games, even on the "nightmare" or most difficult combats. I cannot handle manual block. If you do not think auto-block should exist, you do not believe in easy or normal difficulties for any genre! I want to pick up M&B after my 10 hr shift, after I feed my child, and after I wind down...I want my 1 1/2 hrs of video games to be about esnuring I enjoy a game. I love crushing strategy games at hardest difficulty. I don't care if you cannot beat those games at the same difficulty as I. I just want to auto-block and kill as many as possible for my hack n' slash (with mild RP components) game.As a teenager who rampaged through pub games, I prolly maybe similar arguments about "git gud" and "play the game the developers want," but now, I realize how much accessibility has to do with reaching people. Physical and mental impairments have the *option* to normalize themselves in a SP setting (that doesn't affect anybody else!). People who are casual, have the option to cater their own experience (as does people who play games seriously). To advocate so hard that auto-block ruins the game, that you need to git gud, that you're ruining the way developers meant to play........well, I guess what I say doesn't matter, because personal conviction on opinions tends to override any relevancy. People change their minds when issues/consequences personally affect them.
War of the Roses, Of Kings and Men, Last Oasis, For Honor, Gloria Victis. All melee-heavy games with strong inspirations from Warband's combat system. Again, directional blocking isn't that hard to learn, most people just aren't willing to try when an easier but less fun alternative is offered to them.
A game can be both a good action game and a good RPG. If you're disappointed in Bannerlord's RPG elements that has nothing to do with the lack of automatic blocking. Removing automatic blocking from Warband would not make it more of an action game and less of a RPG for example.
The people refusing the auto-block are acting as if it will ruin their favorite game, when in reality it could simply be an enable/disable option in the settings like they did in Warband.
You want immersion? Disable it.
You're new to hack 'n' slash genre? Enable it.
BOOM, problem solved and everyone is happy. Is it really that hard to understand?
No, they're not and you know it.
You want immersion? Disable it.
You're new to hack 'n' slash genre? Enable it.
BOOM, problem solved and everyone is happy. Is it really that hard to understand?
No, they're not and you know it.
Summarized my wall of text, since it is incomprehensible for those complaining it's "people unwilling to learn a basic mechanic".
To avoid double posting accusations, I'll add that no one here is proud, or even cares, that you think the game is more fun with manual blocking. If you have the choice to use manual or auto, no one will care. Random internet people will judge, sure. Screw them, no one cares about them anyway. That's why they're so hellbent on insisting it's "how the game is meant to be played".
Let me, with my ancient gamer wisdom, tell you how the game is meant to be played:
You buy the game wherever you want, you pay the fair price for it, making sure the profit goes to TaleWorlds and not some shady black-market key seller, you download and install it; make sure everything is ready, your mouse and keyboard or controller is plugged in, set and ready to go; select the installed Bannerlord game icon, double-click it or click Play on your steam app or something, open up the launcher and click Play, you go into the Main Menu and play the game however you want if you choose Campaign or Load Game, or play it as is on Multiplayer.
That's how you play the game. And that's all anyone can tell others how to play the game properly.
TW might suggest following the quests for some storyline finale, but it is a sandbox, you do whatever you want. Callum himself said it in a blog post that it's a sandbox and you can completely ignore the main quest.
That's freedom of choice, free will, or self-determination, if you feel like it. My game, my free time, my will to play the thing, my way of playing the thing. That's it.
This guy gets it.
I'd prefer it if the developers focused their time and resources on fixing the glaring issues that are currently present, and polishing what features they already have, instead of wasting their time on something that will be modded in on the first day the modding tools become available
PenisMightier
Recruit
wow, this was great. Thank you
So instead of losing my time arguing against the git guds, I contacted the support team and:
PenisMightier
Recruit
A MESSAGE FROM THE ETERNAL ONES.
Did any of us in here think about emailing them?
I feel shame
I figured the forums were the best place to seek comment. Shows what I know.
@zedestroyer
You sir, are smart.
