Taleworlds, this is false advertising and you know it

[almightycricket]

Just curious what the disagreement here is honestly?

I went and read a bunch of noudelles posts and they seem to be catered mostly to consistency and feedback as opposed to crazy mechanics in warband. The list incase you didn't see the siggy. I firmly believe the combat mechanics should be separate purely due to the fact some MP aspects will not transfer over to SP easily (things like block durability shouldn't be the same). Other than that though I don't see any issues with what he's mentioned. They even said it wasn't a super serious s***post, and said it wasn't false advertising, but definitely needed work.

 

[Horcerer]

Personally I believe Mount and Blade With Fire and Sword may be the best implementation of melee combat in modern video games. The unparalleled balance between fire arms and big knives is a clear sign of developmental intellect. I believe that this lack of counter to melee weapons is a serious mistake on the side of the Bannerlord devs and should be rectumfied.

The Waletorlds clearly should utilize the fire arms currently in WFnS. This would round out the hole missing in its balance.

 

[LeChat]

I love Warband because there is no firearms.
I love KCD because there is no firearms.

 

[Dead End]

Personally I believe Mount and Blade With Fire and Sword may be the best implementation of melee combat in modern video games. The unparalleled balance between fire arms and big knives is a clear sign of developmental intellect. I believe that this lack of counter to melee weapons is a serious mistake on the side of the Bannerlord devs and should be rectumfied.

The Waletorlds clearly should utilize the fire arms currently in WFnS. This would round out the hole missing in its balance.

I think the transition from big knives to big sticks was a FATAL mistake on UnderTaleworlds’ part. They ARENT gonna survive this blunder

 

[Orion]

What's funny is OP points out the obvious without getting it -

Posts whining because Bannerlord combat is better and not as stupid spinny as Warband get so few views specifically because most people don't object to the idea of having combat performance tied to cranking your mouse DPI.

That I don't have to stare at the ground with my mouse DPI at 9,000 to helicopter my way to victory is a huge plus to Bannerlord and most people agree.

Bannerlord combat is significantly improved. There's still a ton of balance changes to make as to be expected in the beta state but the foundation of slower pace and delays isn't bad. Most people agree that's why most the whiny balance posts get largely ignored and ones literally just for saying 'Taleworlds is lying for pointing out that combat is better' get stomped on.

Competitive standard across virtually all fps/tps games is low DPI, typically under 1000, and Warband was no different. You see people spinning in pub games, but pub games always have people doing stupid things for fun. I can see how you might have this misconception if you didn't play or even watch competitive gameplay, but the fact is spinning is not viable in high level Warband play. Stop parroting disinformation.

 

[Mabons]

Just curious what the disagreement here is honestly?

I went and read a bunch of noudelles posts and they seem to be catered mostly to consistency and feedback as opposed to crazy mechanics in warband. The list incase you didn't see the siggy. I firmly believe the combat mechanics should be separate purely due to the fact some MP aspects will not transfer over to SP easily (things like block durability shouldn't be the same). Other than that though I don't see any issues with what he's mentioned. They even said it wasn't a super serious s***post, and said it wasn't false advertising, but definitely needed work.

Be like this guy, he did his research.

You are 100% correct, no one is saying the combat cannot be better than Warband, but it needs fixed, starting with the list of ****.

Also some combat mechanics are already seperate. In Multiplayer it's one armour value for everything, in Singleplayer it will work like Warband, no helmet, no armour on head etc.

 

[Flaviuss]

I'm going to be very honest here and people are going to be hurt

There are very few people posting on this thread that have actually played enough multiplayer at a competitive level (not just loaded up multiplayer)

And if you look at it, pretty much all agree that bannerlords combat, while potentially being better for bots and SP players, is a massive step back for multiplayer PvP.

All you <snip> saying oh warband is "just spin to win" it isn't that spinning is good, its that you are just bad. (Hate to say it)

Now i do want bannerlord, god i've been waiting for it for ages, but the combat is lacking compared to the games that created and molded the franchise.

Hell, id go so far to say that the combat is the reason people have put so many hours into this game

 

[danEN]

I'm going to be very honest here and people are going to be hurt

There are very few people posting on this thread that have actually played enough multiplayer at a competitive level (not just loaded up multiplayer)

And if you look at it, pretty much all agree that bannerlords combat, while potentially being better for bots and SP players, is a massive step back for multiplayer PvP.

All you <snip> saying oh warband is "just spin to win" it isn't that spinning is good, its that you are just bad. (Hate to say it)

Now i do want bannerlord, god i've been waiting for it for ages, but the combat is lacking compared to the games that created and molded the franchise.

Hell, id go so far to say that the combat is the reason people have put so many hours into this game

It was going good until you decided to call people retards. That's not how you put across a good point, just be respectful.

 

[Yabloko]

I'm going to be very honest here and people are going to be hurt

There are very few people posting on this thread that have actually played enough multiplayer at a competitive level (not just loaded up multiplayer)

And if you look at it, pretty much all agree that bannerlords combat, while potentially being better for bots and SP players, is a massive step back for multiplayer PvP.

All you <snip> saying oh warband is "just spin to win" it isn't that spinning is good, its that you are just bad. (Hate to say it)

Now i do want bannerlord, god i've been waiting for it for ages, but the combat is lacking compared to the games that created and molded the franchise.

Hell, id go so far to say that the combat is the reason people have put so many hours into this game

+1. SP has plenty of supporting mechanics that make the game engaging and interesting without necessarily having a well adjusted combat system. But MP absolutely needs a balanced and engaging combat, the entire mode hinges on it. And nowadays multiplayer is more important than it has ever been for a game's playerbase.

 

[Abelardo]

Heh, this sort of thing reminds me of typewriter workers whining and protesting against the use of PCs in the 80's/90's or taxi cab drivers whining and complaining about Uber...

Some people just can't let go of the past...

Here's an idea, just keep playing warband, done.

And if you look at it, pretty much all agree that bannerlords combat, while potentially being better for bots and SP players, is a massive step back for multiplayer PvP.

Let me translate that:
prety much ALL == you and a small circle of people around you

I've seen plenty of beta players here say they enjoy bannerlord's combat more.

But as I have said previously, this is all very pointless, if said problems are indeed a thing they will be found and "fixed" during EA, I just hope they manage to keep SP and MP separate in all things, because if they end up caving and catering to the people that just want the combat to be warband I would prefer to keep playing with a better system.

I prefer to enjoy the improvements brought up by progress and adapting to them instead of insisting in living in the past with things I am comfortable with.

 

[Caius_III]

Heh, this sort of thing reminds me of typewriter workers whining and protesting against the use of PCs in the 80's/90's or taxi cab drivers whining and complaining about Uber...

Some people just can't let go of the past...

Here's an idea, just keep playing warband, done.



Let me translate that:
prety much ALL == you and a small circle of people around you

I've seen plenty of beta players here say they enjoy bannerlord's combat more.

But as I have said previously, this is all very pointless, if said problems are indeed a thing they will be found and "fixed" during EA, I just hope they manage to keep SP and MP separate in all things, because if they end up caving and catering to the people that just want the combat to be warband I would prefer to keep playing with a better system.

I prefer to enjoy the improvements brought up by progress and adapting to them instead of insisting in living in the past with things I am comfortable with.

This is not about living the past and what we're comfortable with, it's talking about facts, and, if you can't see know that the combat has still big issues in terms of nervosity and responsitivity especially if you compare it to Warband then there's absolutely nothing we can do for you.

Plus, why the **** are people saying " some people just want the combat to be warband " ? It's absolutely the same thing, you can still do kicks ( even though it's **** now ), left/right/top/bottom directional hits and blocks and they just added :

1) : A shield bash

2) : A directional blocking system with the shield ( should've used the same blocking system we have when we climb ladders, -> where you look is where your shield moves, much more intuitive but whatever ) but that's it.

Whether you like it or not it is absolutely the same thing in the end, just, less nervous and less responsive, so yeah it looks much better hopefully visually, but when you'll learn to play and try to master it, you'll see its limits. Maybe you can't see them now because you lack practice but you'll see.

I just hope that Taleworlds will keep working on it like they did from the beginning and won't listen to the people who, I'm sorry to say, are lacking knowledge to talk about the matter, I don't mean to be condescending but I'm sorry, that's just the truth.

Also, again, it would considerably improve your singleplayer experience, we are talking about gameplay here.

 

[mr_nifty]

Would you say that Chamber blocking is better? That kicking is better? That attack delay is better? That block delay is better? That shield durability is better? That the stance system is better? That movement is better? That cavalry movement and combat is better? That the damage calculation is better?

Yes. Yes to all.

 

[Orion]

It was going good until you decided to call people retards. That's not how you put across a good point, just be respectful.

^ This. The thread is remaining open, but under scrutiny. Keep it civil.

 

[부부를 넘어서 가자]

I don't even doubt that Bannerlrod has the potential to have a better combat system than Warband. But it still has along way to go to reach that point. What's very worrying for me is that they seem to ignore threads that adress the combat system. The recent update have all only been alibi changes to the combat/balancing.

 

[sheamoran]

As someone who played thousands of hours in Warband singleplayer and at most 20 hours in Native multiplayer I would say that the two modes having different combat systems would be beneficial. In singleplayer I don't look for detailed and nuanced attack methods I look for intense and more brutal looking fighting so the battle feels more immersive. Of course this is the opposite in multiplayer.

 

[Bran34]

As someone who played thousands of hours in Warband singleplayer and at most 20 hours in Native multiplayer I would say that the two modes having different combat systems would be beneficial. In singleplayer I don't look for detailed and nuanced attack methods I look for intense and more brutal looking fighting so the battle feels more immersive. Of course this is the opposite in multiplayer.

The detailed and nuanced attack methods are already here, the problem is that the details and nuances are muddied by loose controls. If things were tightened up, we can easily have both at the same time.

 

[safe]

What most of the Bannerlord fan boys(the ones that know M&B franchise only from singleplayer and have 0 experience in a real pvp but keep trying to depreciate more experinced players opinions) seems to not understand in the bl combat system criticism is that it's not based on the fact that people are upset with the difference between bl and wb but on the fact that bl has worse combat system that wb. Most of us expected improvement not downgrade, im far from wanting TW to leave the obsolate combat mechanics from Warband but at this moment it seems that they have created something far less flexible and differential than the combat system that we know from their previous game.
Many of us (the people who are extremly disappointed with Bannerlord, like me) don't repeat the arguments why BL has worse combat than WB because they have been already stated countless times by the most experienced players.
I understand the casual part of the community that wants a game where everyone can have fun but let's be realistic such games don't exist - more experinced players will always win with the less experinced ones and it's not a matter of some "spinning" or "looking down" or whatever, it's a matter of an in-game time, reflex that comes with the time spend in game, etc. Muliplayer is this type of gamemode that requires much more skill than singleplayer and no-one can expect that everyone will be equal there and that the chances will be even. Beginners always have harsh first contact with the multiplayer but it's not because the game is unbalanced or because of the "broken mechanics" like many people say, it's because of the skill barier and skill diference between players - just like in real life. So please stop reducing the discussion about game mechanics to a fight between experienced players and frustrated inexperinced players that would like to make everyone equally bad. It's not Warbands "broken" combat that made certain players very good but the amount of time they spend on playing it - thousands of hours of practise and whether anyone likes it or not it is the same in every competitive game.
By deleting all aspects that create that "skill ceiling" Bannerlord will lose everything that makes it potentially atractive for the huge and always devoted part of community that enjoy competitive gameplay and this is something that TW seems to not understand - those people are responsible for their succes, the ones that have been playing the game for 3, 4 ,5 or 10 tousands hours during which they created countless communities or hosted tousands of multiplayer events. Singleplayer was never the reason why Mount and Blade became such succesful game. Original M&B was singleplayer only but it was Warband - the version with multiplayer that made the franchise so popular.

 

[FBohler]

I'm fed up with the whole "competitive players opinions are more valuable than common players" fallacy.

Competitive players buy the copy for the same price as the regular player.

We get you all love the clunky PVP in Warband, with all those strange robot-like movements in the competitive scene. You can always stick to Warband in that case.

Bannerlord has its own flaws, of course. Being different from Warband isn't one of them though.

 

[Caius_III]

I'm fed up with the whole "competitive players opinions are more valuable than common players" fallacy.

Competitive players buy the copy for the same price as the regular player.

We get you all love the clunky PVP in Warband, with all those strange robot-like movements in the competitive scene. You can always stick to Warband in that case.

Bannerlord has its own flaws, of course. Being different from Warband isn't one of them though.

Nonsense.

 

[FBohler]

Nonsense.

Very good argument, keep 'em coming
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