Romans... Suck?

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Murmillo182 said:
Hey, I just wondered why the Western Roman Empire has got Imperial German Bodyguard...
Can someone explain this to me please? :grin:
I thought the Germans were more like barbarians at this time :?:
Men from the barbarian tribes like the Celts and the Germans would commonly hire out as mercenaries as it would pay better then being a grunt in their own armies while still allowing them the chance to prove their worth.
 
This mod is awesome (Ranks as best mod i've played so far.), I'm currently fighting for the Camulodian Empire. Currently i have a Castle and two villages for fiefs (Finally, a king a gives me the damn castle i fought for).

At the start, i fought for the Western Romans, believing they where the only ones with Roman units (Found out later that the Camulodian Empire where Romano-British). I stuck by the Imperial Magistrate guy for roughly 3 weeks, fighting against the Saxons. Every battle we went into, we'd have our asses handed to us, even when we outnumbered the Saxons. After many defeats and blood battles, i jumped ship and joined the Camulodians. Can't say that i regret it, the Western Romans have been beaten out of every castle they owned. Every offensive they launched failed. Several times they tried to retake one of their lost castles, but can never seem to win. Now All they have is Londinium, with some 600 or so troops sitting in the city.

Currently, the Saxons have the largest amount of land, followed by the Pictish Federation. The Camulodian Empire is beating the Camulodian Allies easily, since our Legionnaires that we have are awesome. I currently have 300 troops or so, 200 defending my castle, and another 100 or so following me. Just wish that King Arthur would declare war on the Kingdom of Cornwall. We can beat them, no problem, and with Cornwall's land in our Empire, we'd have control of South West Britain.
 
CrusaderRick said:
This mod is awesome (Ranks as best mod i've played so far.), I'm currently fighting for the Camulodian Empire. Currently i have a Castle and two villages for fiefs (Finally, a king a gives me the damn castle i fought for).

At the start, i fought for the Western Romans, believing they where the only ones with Roman units (Found out later that the Camulodian Empire where Romano-British). I stuck by the Imperial Magistrate guy for roughly 3 weeks, fighting against the Saxons. Every battle we went into, we'd have our asses handed to us, even when we outnumbered the Saxons. After many defeats and blood battles, i jumped ship and joined the Camulodians. Can't say that i regret it, the Western Romans have been beaten out of every castle they owned. Every offensive they launched failed. Several times they tried to retake one of their lost castles, but can never seem to win. Now All they have is Londinium, with some 600 or so troops sitting in the city.

Currently, the Saxons have the largest amount of land, followed by the Pictish Federation. The Camulodian Empire is beating the Camulodian Allies easily, since our Legionnaires that we have are awesome. I currently have 300 troops or so, 200 defending my castle, and another 100 or so following me. Just wish that King Arthur would declare war on the Kingdom of Cornwall. We can beat them, no problem, and with Cornwall's land in our Empire, we'd have control of South West Britain.
Then start attacking Cornwall's caravans. They'll declare war on you. :smile:
 
Lord Drake said:
CrusaderRick said:
This mod is awesome (Ranks as best mod i've played so far.), I'm currently fighting for the Camulodian Empire. Currently i have a Castle and two villages for fiefs (Finally, a king a gives me the damn castle i fought for).

At the start, i fought for the Western Romans, believing they where the only ones with Roman units (Found out later that the Camulodian Empire where Romano-British). I stuck by the Imperial Magistrate guy for roughly 3 weeks, fighting against the Saxons. Every battle we went into, we'd have our asses handed to us, even when we outnumbered the Saxons. After many defeats and blood battles, i jumped ship and joined the Camulodians. Can't say that i regret it, the Western Romans have been beaten out of every castle they owned. Every offensive they launched failed. Several times they tried to retake one of their lost castles, but can never seem to win. Now All they have is Londinium, with some 600 or so troops sitting in the city.

Currently, the Saxons have the largest amount of land, followed by the Pictish Federation. The Camulodian Empire is beating the Camulodian Allies easily, since our Legionnaires that we have are awesome. I currently have 300 troops or so, 200 defending my castle, and another 100 or so following me. Just wish that King Arthur would declare war on the Kingdom of Cornwall. We can beat them, no problem, and with Cornwall's land in our Empire, we'd have control of South West Britain.
Then start attacking Cornwall's caravans. They'll declare war on you. :smile:
But only if you got the quest from a camulodian lord to attack two caravans :wink:
 
Murmillo182 said:
Lord Drake said:
CrusaderRick said:
This mod is awesome (Ranks as best mod i've played so far.), I'm currently fighting for the Camulodian Empire. Currently i have a Castle and two villages for fiefs (Finally, a king a gives me the damn castle i fought for).

At the start, i fought for the Western Romans, believing they where the only ones with Roman units (Found out later that the Camulodian Empire where Romano-British). I stuck by the Imperial Magistrate guy for roughly 3 weeks, fighting against the Saxons. Every battle we went into, we'd have our asses handed to us, even when we outnumbered the Saxons. After many defeats and blood battles, i jumped ship and joined the Camulodians. Can't say that i regret it, the Western Romans have been beaten out of every castle they owned. Every offensive they launched failed. Several times they tried to retake one of their lost castles, but can never seem to win. Now All they have is Londinium, with some 600 or so troops sitting in the city.

Currently, the Saxons have the largest amount of land, followed by the Pictish Federation. The Camulodian Empire is beating the Camulodian Allies easily, since our Legionnaires that we have are awesome. I currently have 300 troops or so, 200 defending my castle, and another 100 or so following me. Just wish that King Arthur would declare war on the Kingdom of Cornwall. We can beat them, no problem, and with Cornwall's land in our Empire, we'd have control of South West Britain.
Then start attacking Cornwall's caravans. They'll declare war on you. :smile:
But only if you got the quest from a camulodian lord to attack two caravans :wink:
I've found that if you just annoy them enough they attack anyway.
 
Lord Drake said:
Murmillo182 said:
Lord Drake said:
CrusaderRick said:
This mod is awesome (Ranks as best mod i've played so far.), I'm currently fighting for the Camulodian Empire. Currently i have a Castle and two villages for fiefs (Finally, a king a gives me the damn castle i fought for).

At the start, i fought for the Western Romans, believing they where the only ones with Roman units (Found out later that the Camulodian Empire where Romano-British). I stuck by the Imperial Magistrate guy for roughly 3 weeks, fighting against the Saxons. Every battle we went into, we'd have our asses handed to us, even when we outnumbered the Saxons. After many defeats and blood battles, i jumped ship and joined the Camulodians. Can't say that i regret it, the Western Romans have been beaten out of every castle they owned. Every offensive they launched failed. Several times they tried to retake one of their lost castles, but can never seem to win. Now All they have is Londinium, with some 600 or so troops sitting in the city.

Currently, the Saxons have the largest amount of land, followed by the Pictish Federation. The Camulodian Empire is beating the Camulodian Allies easily, since our Legionnaires that we have are awesome. I currently have 300 troops or so, 200 defending my castle, and another 100 or so following me. Just wish that King Arthur would declare war on the Kingdom of Cornwall. We can beat them, no problem, and with Cornwall's land in our Empire, we'd have control of South West Britain.
Then start attacking Cornwall's caravans. They'll declare war on you. :smile:
But only if you got the quest from a camulodian lord to attack two caravans :wink:
I've found that if you just annoy them enough they attack anyway.

Well then... TO WAR MEN!!!!
 
CrusaderRick said:
Lord Drake said:
Murmillo182 said:
Lord Drake said:
CrusaderRick said:
This mod is awesome (Ranks as best mod i've played so far.), I'm currently fighting for the Camulodian Empire. Currently i have a Castle and two villages for fiefs (Finally, a king a gives me the damn castle i fought for).

At the start, i fought for the Western Romans, believing they where the only ones with Roman units (Found out later that the Camulodian Empire where Romano-British). I stuck by the Imperial Magistrate guy for roughly 3 weeks, fighting against the Saxons. Every battle we went into, we'd have our asses handed to us, even when we outnumbered the Saxons. After many defeats and blood battles, i jumped ship and joined the Camulodians. Can't say that i regret it, the Western Romans have been beaten out of every castle they owned. Every offensive they launched failed. Several times they tried to retake one of their lost castles, but can never seem to win. Now All they have is Londinium, with some 600 or so troops sitting in the city.

Currently, the Saxons have the largest amount of land, followed by the Pictish Federation. The Camulodian Empire is beating the Camulodian Allies easily, since our Legionnaires that we have are awesome. I currently have 300 troops or so, 200 defending my castle, and another 100 or so following me. Just wish that King Arthur would declare war on the Kingdom of Cornwall. We can beat them, no problem, and with Cornwall's land in our Empire, we'd have control of South West Britain.
Then start attacking Cornwall's caravans. They'll declare war on you. :smile:
But only if you got the quest from a camulodian lord to attack two caravans :wink:
I've found that if you just annoy them enough they attack anyway.

Well then... TO WAR MEN!!!!
Let me know how it turns out. ^^
 
Change in plans, i just realized how awesome these Legionaries and veteran bowmen really are... Here's what happened, the Camulodian Allies decided to go on the offensive and siege Wickeher, so i went over to the siege to see if i could help out, with another Empire noble behind me a bit. when we reached the castle, we managed to draw one enemy noble away, and slaughtered his 120 or so troops (Me and my ally combined had 240 or so). After our victory, we pressed towards the castle, i went to attack another enemy noble, with my ally following, but at the last moment, the sob ran when the enemy king showed up, and i found myself in a fight, my 124 troops (Not even my veteran army, i currently was training new units to add to my pool of veterans) vs the enemy army of 363 troops.

Facing 3-to-1 odds, and not having my veteran Legionary, i felt that defeat was certain.

My army consisted of:
7 Heroes.
15 Camulodian Bowmen
31 Veteran Camulodian Bowmen
and the Rest of my 71 troops where either Camulodian Legionaries or the trained ones, No Veteran Legionaries.

Now, our first battle took place on a roughly flat plain with a river in between our armies, with the enemy Army closer to the river. I felt that the only chance i had of winning was rushing to that river and then holding one side of it, so my archers could rain arrows on enemy troops as they tried to wade across. However, due to the enemy spawning closer to the river, i would have to beat back their first wave.

With my plan made, me and my troops rushed out as close to the river as we could b4 running into the enemy army. I told my troops to hold position in a straight line when we traveled a good distance towards the river, the reason why i do this instead of separating my archers and Legionaries is because the archers tend to stand between two legionaries, thus the Legionary shields provide excellent cover for my archers from enemy fire. When the enemy infantry are within 20 or so feet, i order my infantry to attack, while keeping my archers back.

The enemies first wave consisted of mostly INF with alot of archers and around 20 cavalry, Cavalry charging towards my lines, with Infantry close behind in a box formation and archers behind the Infantry. The Cavalry was easily dispatched, it lacked enough Heavy Cavalry to make an impact. My Legionaries managed to hold the cavalry away from my Bowmen, while my Bowmen rained down arrows on the advancing enemy Infantry formation and the archers behind them.

Now, this box formation that most Armies seem to use isn't a very good formation to use imho. The shields that most armies have are too small, and only the Scutums used by the Camulodians, or the Shields used by the Western Romans seem to be the only ones good enough for providing protection in a boxed formation.

When Barbarian forces use the Box formation, it pretty much brings about their doom. Due to the small shields they have, and being massed up into one large body, my ranged units usually inflict heavy casualties upon their Infantry before they even reach my own Legionaries.

Personally, i think the Barbarians should use a more spread out charging formation, instead of the Slow Box formation. Due to being spread out, my Archers wouldn't have a massed, slowly moving target.

Anyways, after beating the first wave of enemy units (The enemy archers retreated to their second wave, crossing back over the river), i managed to reach the river and set up my troops in line formation again. Archers where protected from enemy fire, while they rained down arrows upon the enemy second wave while they slowly waded across the river. Upon reaching the slopes of my side of the river, i ordered my Legionaries to charge and make short work of the enemy that reached our forces. This repeated for the enemies 3rd wave as well.

Now, the ending of this battle surprised me, i had 15 KIA, with another 30 WIA, while the enemy army had 221 KIA and 1 WIA (The enemy King i believe).

Now the 2nd part of this battle starts, my remaining 80 or so troops, vs 140 enemy troops. This time the battlefield was on a more hilly area with an open field, my forces spawning on the hill area with the enemy spawning in the open field area. Using the High ground to my advantage, i made short work of the enemy army in no time, losing only 1 soldier and having 10 WIA, compared to the enemies 139 KIA and 1 WIA (The noble who was backing the King).

Now, after having this glorious battle against the Camulodian Allies, my plan is to take my Veterans out of my castle at Therfur, 40 Veteran Camulodian Bowmen and 81 Veteran Camulodian Legionaries, and siege Ravenglass. Due to the Allies having lost 400+ troops, Ravenglass is only defended by a garrison of 230 troops, and a Noble with 67 troops. Now, for sieging this city, i don't plan to scale those walls (That's suicide with only 129 troops). My plan is to hold the siege until the defenders run out of supplies. To make certain that my own forces dont run out of supplies, i have bought food, lots of it (My whole inventory is full of food). I will siege the city until they run out of supplies, forcing the defenders to fight on the outside of the walls, where i should have a better chance of beating them. I'll post back if successful or not.

If successful, I'll be breaking away from the Empire to form my own state at Ravenglass. I just wished my fiefs in the Empire would revolt and break away with me instead of staying with the Empire... i have 300 extra troops stationed in Therfur, 150 of which happen to be trained / improved (Which ever it is) Legionaries. That's a good 300 troops i could use stationed in my city, but alas, they will instead fall into the vile hands of King Arthur and his lackeys.

Update:

Well, my plan to hold the castle in a siege had to be altered, i was going to run out of money before the enemy would run out of food, and i was also going to run out of food in a day or two. So, i thought, "To hell with it, Charge those walls men!!"... Once again, these Camulodians surprised me. We won. Now, if i knew where those damn screen shots went, i'd upload em and post the ending battle result.

Also, i broke away from the Empire, and to my surprise, so did my Castle Therfur in the south. There's 300 crack troops defending that place, so those Camulodians can break their teeth trying to retake that.
 
Lord Drake said:
CrusaderRick said:
Thats great! :grin:
Mayhaps it is because you had so many troops there that the fort stayed with you? :smile:

How are you on terms with Arthur now?

He friggen HATES me. Pendragon declared war on on Camulodia Empire, with other nations already at war with them launching attacks. Seems my breaking away from the empire is causing them trouble... i have my own troubles, 650 troops from the Sons of Conrad (i think that's the name, cant check right now cause the battle is still going on) have sieged Ravenglass. Me and 288 defenders are going to give those sobs a black eye and a bloody noose.
 
CrusaderRick said:
Lord Drake said:
CrusaderRick said:
Thats great! :grin:
Mayhaps it is because you had so many troops there that the fort stayed with you? :smile:

How are you on terms with Arthur now?

He friggen HATES me. Pendragon declared war on on Camulodia Empire, with other nations already at war with them launching attacks. Seems my breaking away from the empire is causing them trouble... i have my own troubles, 650 troops from the Sons of Conrad (i think that's the name, cant check right now cause the battle is still going on) have sieged Ravenglass. Me and 288 defenders are going to give those sobs a black eye and a bloody noose.
Haha, I thought he might. :razz:
Aye, if vassals can break off and get away with it then that means the kingdom is weak, thus making them a prime target. :wink:
Give 'em hell laddy! :twisted:
 
for history's sake, late roman army didnt suck at all. west rome didnt just have the funds to field a reliable army continuously and had to rely on federati troops.

and about the 'barbarization' of roman army - this is over exaggerated. roman records show that in late rome, only 10 to 15 % of legionnaires in britain were of 'barbaric' origin. rest were romans. however, a form of barbarization in higher ranks of roman army, the commanding strata is true, which also reflected on the emperors after that period. this was due to the constant warfare around rhine with barbaric tribes, romanized barbarians being included in legions and ascending through the ranks and so on. in fact, there has been much exchange in between romans and barbarians around rhine that, actually germanic tribes got the idea of using swords from romans, and expanded on the idea, while romans also took a lot of successful technologies and tactics from barbarian enemies just like they did since their founding as a small city.

in short, roman army was quite competent, however, there wasnt a roman army like in the before centuries, because rome didnt have enough money to field one.

Wu-long said:
tigershark said:
It wasn't just that they were better... it was the sheer manpower rome had, she could afford to loose many minor battles and still wear their opponents to the ground just through sheer attrition... Rome often lost the early battles in a war, or won with heavy causualties, they just made sure to learn from their mistakes and start pushing forward (Germany non-withstanding)
Yeah Rome just could afford to lose the battles with casualties but after it they keep improving their tactics but near the end they cant and the ranks grew smaller that resulted them to be come less disciplined and loyal to the country Rome its self but more to the riches and leaders.

it was always like that starting with the period towards the end of republican rome, because senate was very stingy in paying legions properly, especially discharge pay. and they always went the way of having consuls raise their own legions with their own private funds. which, naturally, led to a loyalty placement change, commander over senate and rome.

octavian changed this, and tried to secure legionnaire's retirement, started a fund to pay discharge pays, and deposited the initial funds (150 m sesterti or something if im not mistaken) himself from his own pockets. he also instituted taxes for the first time to roman citizens, in the form of inheritance tax, in order to pay for army's discharge expenses.

...............

an important decrease in rome's military power started with creation of a standing army and professionalization of the army instead of using citizen armies. instead of levying citizens each year, they have gone with a professional standing army.

this, no doubt, decreased the effectiveness in the training culture they had - back in early rome each citizen was practically a soldier, and in early days everyone did military service starting from teens, and it was possible to speedily train and produce new legions when there was any need for them. this was what happened when hannibal invaded italy, romans produced legion after another.
 
martijntjeeh said:
Your probably right, the mod is close to about 450 ad i  thought? So thats almost the ending, so they had to start sucking indeed.

During this time there wasnt a real western roman army. It should have been called Western Franco,German,Gothic army. Because 85% of the troops weren't even Roman they were auxilliary troops taken from Barbaric tribes the Romans conquered. This was because they really didn't have a choice they were so spread out and short on manpower as it was. the Elite of the roman units were actual roman people and thats why in this mod they are somewhat decent and disciplined still while the early units blow because they are just thrown together barbarian troops with minimal training. He made this mod following a historical book of the time period so I would think he knew what he was doing=). Fact is barbarians at this time were starting to be less barbaric and more i dont wanna say civilized but they became a hell of alot smarter because the romans trained alot of them and they took what they knew and what the roman taught them and eventually took the western empire. The best troops in this game would probably be the saxons or the British Romano troops or w.e you decided to call them in this game. Otherwise If your looking to use low level roman troops to basically gain a huge advantage in this game your mistakenly going to die alot=). Maybe if he adds the Eastern empire to the game you can use roman troops and win everything but no here unfortunatley unless you really work  for it lol.
 
So surely with better equipment the barbarian "levies" or whatever should be of a comparable level to some saxon raiders?
 
eragoen said:
So surely with better equipment the barbarian "levies" or whatever should be of a comparable level to some saxon raiders?
You should take into account that the Saxon's had been warriors for far longer then those levies.
 
If I am not mistaken Wasn't Rome Built with help of the Saxon and other neighboring lands? Then after the Romans reached the peak of there military power they betrayed the Saxon and overtook them?
 
Mr.Rogers said:
If I am not mistaken Wasn't Rome Built with help of the Saxon and other neighboring lands? Then after the Romans reached the peak of there military power they betrayed the Saxon and overtook them?
No, the saxons the the guys who lived in Denmark and Norway before the Danes. :/
Rome never controlled those regions.
 
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