Usage of the term "Chinese"

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ChengYi

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I think it would be politically correct to use the term "Han" better because during the time in the land that's now China, many different groups of people cohabited the land. People's Republic of China didn't exist back then. Han is the general ethnic term, Chinese is a nationality.
 
If its mentioned in the game I'll replace the word Chinese with Han.  But I don't think that will crop up in many dialogues, as for the forums - I don't see why it's that important.  Historical debates are turning up when all I want are basic troop trees and faction listings, yet no one gives an actual direct answer.

If you feel insulted that we are calling the jin and that chinese when they aren't...then I sincerely apologise.  if not, then this is just another thread my brain doesn't fully understand. xD
 
Wei.Xiadi said:
If its mentioned in the game I'll replace the word Chinese with Han.  But I don't think that will crop up in many dialogues, as for the forums - I don't see why it's that important.  Historical debates are turning up when all I want are basic troop trees and faction listings, yet no one gives an actual direct answer.

If you feel insulted that we are calling the jin and that chinese when they aren't...then I sincerely apologise.  if not, then this is just another thread my brain doesn't fully understand. xD
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nah just that the ethnic relations of that time shouldn't be generalized. Han is an ethnic group, the term "Chinese" does not refer to an ethnic group and the concept of "Chinese people" didn't exist back then.
 
Well I'll keep that in mind. :smile:

Han ey, I had read that many people called themselves Han because of the Dynasty that lasted god knows how long. xD

Which is cool, since the end of the eastern han/three kingdoms is the era I've been studying for years now.
 
Wei.Xiadi said:
Well I'll keep that in mind. :smile:

Han ey, I had read that many people called themselves Han because of the Dynasty that lasted god knows how long. xD

Which is cool, since the end of the eastern han/three kingdoms is the era I've been studying for years now.
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yeah history is complicated. Today especially very sensitive in politics now that western people are involved. The Nationalist Party (Koumintang) of Taiwan still claim Mongolia and the Tuvan Republic as part of China today
 
I thought Tuvan was considered apart of the Russian Confederacy....

Also, didnt certain people in China think of Mongolia as like...extended chinese territory until they declared something..I remember reading about it.
 
Wei.Xiadi said:
I thought Tuvan was considered apart of the Russian Confederacy....

Also, didnt certain people in China think of Mongolia as like...extended chinese territory until they declared something..I remember reading about it.
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right I know. if you look at the republic of China's territory map, it includes Mongolia, Tuva, parts of Kazakhstan and Afghanistan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ROC_Administrative_and_Claims.png

Republic of Mongolia declared independence in 1911, Tibet followed in 1913, after fall of Qing dynasty, but neither declaration were recognized. It wasn't until the Russia treaty with the communists in 1946 the formal independence of Republic of Mongolia is recognized.

after 1911 Russia fanned the flames and split Tuva from the newly independent Mongolia, forming the independent Tannu Tuva. After WWII Tuva join Soviet confederacy and part of Russia today.

In the Mongol-Tibetan Affairs Bureau in Taiwan, Tuva and Mongolia are still represented in the Republic of China, and yet to renounce Sovereignty over the two regions even though the communists did for 100 years

this **** is real sensitive...history is a ***** :razz:
 
ChengYi said:
I think it would be politically correct to use the term "Han" better because during the time in the land that's now China, many different groups of people cohabited the land. People's Republic of China didn't exist back then. Han is the general ethnic term, Chinese is a nationality.
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But the "Han" Dynasty was way before that. Han Ch'ao; 206 BC–220 AD, Jin Dynasty  (1115–1234). To be historically accurate it should be the Jin dynasty, but the peasants where mostly the Han (Chinese Han) people. The REAL people who had the power were the Jurchens.

No hard feelings.
 
Why did this thread even pop up?  I have something in my brain that keeps matching chinese with hen now *facepalm*.

Also, I don't believe there are any dialogs that include chickens.  So for now it should be all clean.  If things pop up I'll use Han.  This is applicable to which factions?
 
This is only applicable to the 'Jin' aka the Jurchens.  The tanguts were not of the 'Han'.

People called themselves the 'Han' because of the influence the Han dynatsy had over central china, especially considering the fact they lasted from BC (original han) to 200 odd AD (eastern Han).

But yeah, game wise wolf - this isn't relevant whatsoever.  I think Cheng just wanted people to know that when we call the Jin and Tanguts'chinese' its inaccurate XD 
 
Wei.Xiadi said:
This is only applicable to the 'Jin' aka the Jurchens.  The tanguts were not of the 'Han'.

People called themselves the 'Han' because of the influence the Han dynatsy had over central china, especially considering the fact they lasted from BC (original han) to 200 odd AD (eastern Han).

But yeah, game wise wolf - this isn't relevant whatsoever.  I think Cheng just wanted people to know that when we call the Jin and Tanguts'chinese' its inaccurate XD 
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Ohkii ;o  Back to banging my head on upgrades.
 
Wei.Xiadi said:
This is only applicable to the 'Jin' aka the Jurchens.  The tanguts were not of the 'Han'.

People called themselves the 'Han' because of the influence the Han dynatsy had over central china, especially considering the fact they lasted from BC (original han) to 200 odd AD (eastern Han).

But yeah, game wise wolf - this isn't relevant whatsoever.  I think Cheng just wanted people to know that when we call the Jin and Tanguts'chinese' its inaccurate XD 
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Correction, Khitan, Tangut and Jurchen are not "Han" but they are integral part of Chinese History. 汉族人 is different from the expression 中国人
 
ChengYi said:
Wei.Xiadi said:
This is only applicable to the 'Jin' aka the Jurchens.  The tanguts were not of the 'Han'.

People called themselves the 'Han' because of the influence the Han dynatsy had over central china, especially considering the fact they lasted from BC (original han) to 200 odd AD (eastern Han).

But yeah, game wise wolf - this isn't relevant whatsoever.  I think Cheng just wanted people to know that when we call the Jin and Tanguts'chinese' its inaccurate XD 
Click to expand...

Correction, Khitan, Tangut and Jurchen are not "Han" but they are integral part of Chinese History. 汉族人 is different from the expression 中国人
Click to expand...

That's all well and good, but let's focus on getting the game out :p  Then we'll be going all over those little details and we expand and make it all impressive where even professionals with degrees in history will be like "wtf you guys are h4x, teach meh!"  At which point I'll step forward and go "SUCK ME FIRST!"
 
Oh, and if you need help making chinese/han/whatever the hell they called themselves names, just chuck a pan down a hallway and record the noices it makes on a notepad. Such as: Bing de Bong, Jong de Ping, etc.  :twisted:
 
Ok that was epic  :mrgreen:

As for Cheng's correction..then..WTF did you even bring this topic up, if none of the factions we use are of the 'Han' which they arent, the Jurchen invaded the Liao, so I presume th Liao were probably 'Han' but not the Jurchens, then why have we got a discussion on what to call these people.

We cant call them chinese nor the Han. So lets just call them by their actuals names, Jurchens and Tanguts.

DISCUSSION closed, I've little paitence for utterly stupid threads with no real meaning behind them.  :mad:
 
The enemy's gate is down! In all seriousness, we do need to get down more solid content in the mod before trying to get all the historical pieces correct.
 
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