Subuatai - Historical Accuracy

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Subuatai

Subuatai

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This is the thread for historical discussions, as for suggestions and discussions in regards to historical accuracy, post here.
So here's the list so far ->

Suggestions for greater historical accuracy:

Mongol Mod:
- Remove cities/villages, implement Paelolithic mod code which allow moving troop parties to host village scenes accessible through the conversation. This will represent the nomadic nature of the steppes.

Great Khan Mod:
- A suggestion: Implement age of machinery siege warfare. China at this time was still incredibly technologically advanced compared to any other nation in the world. This era should also represent the innovations of the Mongol forces in terms of siege warfare.
- As for the Naiman Alliance? Actually the Naimans under Kushluk fled to seek shelter with the Kara-Khitai Khanate to the west and therefore the enemies of Chingghis Khaan was not the "Naiman Alliance" - but the Kara Khitai Khanate.

Historical facts for ideas for future implementation:

Mongol Invasion Mod:

Well the invasion of the middle east was made by a disunited Mongol Empire in the first place. The title of the mod called "Mongol Invasion of the middle-east" is pretty much still an Altaic civil war with Turkic and Mongolic leaders throwing nations at each other. So historically, the real invasion of the middle-east was Mongols vs Khwarezm... though dam, Khwarezmians had Turkic rulers too!!!

Heck, might as well just proceed as planned, thats my opinion. The only real middle-eastern faction in that era was the Ayyubids (My spelling SUCKS) before the Mamluk usurption of the Sultanate. Heh - if you want real Mongol civil wars though - thats in the Temur/Tokhtamysh era. Temur wanted to reforge the Mongol empire, but ended up just destroying each individual khanate before dying onroute to China.

Well there is also a 6th faction - Seljuk/Ottoman Turks who were actually going through the transition as well in this period! So this era is very very interesting. Historically the Kipchak Khanate didn't expand south, they were pretty much content with extorting all the East European princes. The Chagatai Khanate was too busy governing the silk road in central Asia. But the Ilkhanids however, no, they were warring alright - big time. Delhi princes... dunno what they were doing though - I only know stuff about them after Babur's invasion and formation of the Mughal state.

To simplify everything you can just include the Seljuks/Ottoman Turks, Ayyubids and Ilkhanids. But then again inclusion of the Kipchak Khanate, Chagatai Khanate, and Delhi sultanate will make the mod VERY interesting.
Click to expand...


--- Any other historical-based posts - please post here ---
 
hahaha that's funny

i used the information you gave me on the old Mongol Invasion thread on the new Mongol Invasion thread, hope you dont mind. i credited you =P
 
Since we dedicated an entire thread to your historical accuracy.

May some screen shots of historical armours could go here for the Mongol Mod.  It'll be easier if modellers check this thread for the sort of models to create then look everywhere for varied/scattered images. :smile:

Any other information you'd like to say is fine, like specialites, any improved ways to increase the realism and the battling experiance in the Mod.  Just go for it ^^

and thanks for all of your help. :smile:
 
Well most of the historical posts are suggestions. Not actual discussions until it escalates like in one thread - which is our error.

EDIT: Actually I got an idea...
 
Well obviously absolute historical accuracy is impossible within this game. Because who is going to put caravans from foreign countries going down the silk road just to trade. Wait, I would if I had the skill, but i'm absolutely OCD for those kinds of things. I'll play the game again tomorrow and see if there's anything I can spot that could be changed.
 
You know something really bothered me, normally my opponents for historical accuracy on the steppes revolved around arguing with Turks about "This is a Mongol tribe"... "NO! This is a Turkic tribe!". Yet no Turks have challenged me on this forum. Hahaha, gotta love it  :mrgreen:

Maybe I should provoke some Turks to respond by declaring this: I am Uriankhai, but I am not Turkic.  *waits*
 
Subuatai said:
You know something really bothered me, normally my opponents for historical accuracy on the steppes revolved around arguing with Turks about "This is a Mongol tribe"... "NO! This is a Turkic tribe!". Yet no Turks have challenged me on this forum. Hahaha, gotta love it  :mrgreen:

Maybe I should provoke some Turks to respond by declaring this: I am Uriankhai, but I am not Turkic.  *waits*
Click to expand...

Yes some Turkish people don't know the difference, I'm Turkic in origin, but i do know that there are difference between Mongolian and Turks, but they are like cousin's because they are from the Altaic family trea.
 
Subuatai said:
You know something really bothered me, normally my opponents for historical accuracy on the steppes revolved around arguing with Turks about "This is a Mongol tribe"... "NO! This is a Turkic tribe!". Yet no Turks have challenged me on this forum. Hahaha, gotta love it  :mrgreen:

Maybe I should provoke some Turks to respond by declaring this: I am Uriankhai, but I am not Turkic.  *waits*
Click to expand...

and if you didnt know, there are 2 people turkic in this team :grin:
 
M@ster-$ said:
Uriankhai are eastern Mongols, aren't they?
Click to expand...

North western Mongols from Tuvan region, but some call us Turks for some reason.

Yes some Turkish people don't know the difference, I'm Turkic in origin, but i do know that there are difference between Mongolian and Turks, but they are like cousin's because they are from the Altaic family trea.
Click to expand...

Yes, but very distant cousins nowadays however. Turks always rode westward. Left Mongolia a long time ago, only thing that they left behind were the Orkhon inscriptions in Central Mongolia. Similarities in culture, language, and religion are much lost nowadays though due to the widespread nature of the Altaic people and foreign influences especially religion.

Theres even a debate in regards to the Huns [Hun = Human] (or Xiongnu by Chinese sources) whether they were Turk or Mongol and gets rather confusing too. Modu Shanyu, leader of the Huns prior to the Hunnic migration into Europe led the Bayad tribe, a well known tribe shared by both Turks and Mongols. Unfortunately it seems we have two opinions by two ethnics unable to conclude this issue at the moment. Gokturks were the first confederation to use Turk (strong/wise) as a title, and Mongol was pretty much a new identity as well. Altaic steppe confederations really complicate things further.

Thats why some people just assumed the title their enemies pinned on them to end the whole heap of "Turk or Mongol" discussions, they call themselves Turanids (from Persian). Ne ways in regards to the Altai - this might surprise you: http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~corff/im/Sprache/hugjilt.unx
 
Subuatai said:
M@ster-$ said:
Uriankhai are eastern Mongols, aren't they?
Click to expand...

North western Mongols from Tuvan region, but some call us Turks for some reason.
Click to expand...

Aren't western Mongols Oyrats and Kalmyks?

Don't listen to this some.

Huns were Proto-Turkic. They turkified Central Asia.
 
Kalmyk = Oirats = Dzungar, same thing, just different places.
I am Dzungar, from the ancient tribes Uriankhai and Torghuud. Oirat is just a new tribal confederation, same with Kalmyk, and Dzungar :wink:
Same with Oghuz, GokTurk, Halh, etc.

Yes, Huns did split historically into two groups, the ones who stayed in central-Asia (Asian Huns), the ones who migrated westward to Europe (European Huns). The evidence of Turkic origin rather then Mongolic exists in linguisitics, it's the only thing we've got to do research on this far back - as unfortunately our people never bothered to write as much as our neighbours.

However with Mongol tribes there exists 4 main confederations now - Halh, Oirat, Buryat, Tsahar - each of these, have more then half of subtribes considered Turkic by origin. But they all call themselves Mongol. Adds to the confusion.
 
Yes, Oirats formed into a new confederation Dzungar, invaded Kazakhs and Mongolia. Altaic infighting, what's new?  :lol:
 
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