Poll: Roman party sizes

How many many men would you like to see in the Roman parties?

  • Below 30

    Votes: 2 5.0%
  • 30-40

    Votes: 2 5.0%
  • 41-60

    Votes: 3 7.5%
  • 61-80

    Votes: 8 20.0%
  • 81+

    Votes: 25 62.5%

  • Total voters
    40

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-Peter-

Master Knight
Just to give me an idea of how large to make the Roman parties.

Just in case you haven't read already, the Romans will basically be like an invasion force, not a faction just an obstacle for the factions to find a way to get past.

NOTE: This has nothing to do with the Britain 1297 mod, it's for this project.
 
Romans were long gone by 1297.

If you are thinking of the Romano-British they too went away I think before the year 1000
 
Yeah, I don't think that there were any invasions of Britain during this time period. Vikings were gone, Romans were long gone and England had a somewhat uneasy peace with France (no French invasions during the year 1297 though).
 
For historical reference, and for fun reference cuz I know your mod is based on badassery and amazingness not historically accurate. But anywho the point is, when have you ever seen an invasion force split its army's down to a 20-30 sized party? Granted if they were like an elite group with a certain objective like kill this lord or take this castle that could be possible. But for strategic points which are obvious, an invading army would use large contingents with preset and universal objectives.

Example:

Lord Bobby has an army of 150 troops. His objective is to take so and so city or castle.
As Lord Bobby takes this castle Lord Jimmy takes another place close to it in a strategic position.

So to sum it all up its realistic that an invading army would not split its forces to such a low amount even in M&B. And since there Roman Legions they'd have knowledge of battle tactics because they controlled europe by war.
 
Hence why I myself voted for 81+ . At the moment they're 140-160ish, I just wanted to see what other people's preference would be as I understand that some people might get pissed off if they're just starting off and get completely crushed by a horde of Romans every ten minutes or so.

This is 145 Romans v 110 Englishmen (ignore the bugged equipment) ;

33uzwiv.jpg


and another, but doesn't really get the point across - http://i35.tinypic.com/ruwduq.jpg

As you can see, with the shear amount of them, plus the heavy armour and such, they'd just demolish a small party with ease.
 
Well that would be the point of the romans I think. They had one of the greatest empires of the ancient world. They had everything needed for warfare in there time and even more. If there now in partys of atleast 120+ ill be disappointed. As the biggest empire of ancient times they should be a very difficult obsticle. but I expect the highest tiers of other factions are just as good >:smile:

Btw Peter I was wondering If I could join the dev team for this game... I'm sure you could find a spot for me.
 
Well I'm able to do pretty much everything needed for the mod but if you want to help out in a specific area then it'd be very helpful since I haven't got that much time at the moment. Is there anything in particular you'd like to help with?
 
I know just about anything you could ask for to do with ancient military tactics, weapons, lords, kings, citys. Pretty much any of that. On top of that I can help with making any logos or pictures. But ya, for the ranks of the factions, there weapons and armor and military tactics used I got it all.
 
OBrian said:
I know just about anything you could ask for to do with ancient military tactics, weapons, lords, kings, citys. Pretty much any of that. On top of that I can help with making any logos or pictures. But ya, for the ranks of the factions, there weapons and armor and military tactics used I got it all.

Well I could use a bit of help with the Irish in the 1297 if you know anything about them at that time. The situation of Ireland in general, troop trees, equipment and all that.
 
Aight, heres what I got.

Irish infantry - The lower tiers should be using spears, throwing spears and perhaps a sword or 2. The higher tiers will be using only swords and 2 handed Viking axes. The axes were adopted from the vikings because of there 100 year reign of pillaging in Ireland. When Ard Ri Brian Boru (Ard Ri means High King) Took over the Island it was known that he had special contingents of Irish 2 handed Axemen and the kings after him used it since. Most Irish infantry of lower levels use a medium sized spear capped with an iron tip.

Calvary - Calvary was usually only for Lords, Kings and Army Commanders, with of course the exception of there bodyguards. So I suggest the first horsemen class to be something like Irish Guard or Irish Bodyguard or Irish Knight. Then after that put Irish Noble or something that symbolizes a high ranking social status.

Archers - The irish did have archers and they used Long Bows which they got from the British.

As for the map, well I suggest adding more villages in southern Ireland, Naming them after areas controlled by known irish tribes. like for instance Dal Cais the tribe of Brian Boru which is in province Munster on the river Shannon.

Now that brings another thing up, The River Shannon is missing from the map and thats the biggest river in Ireland so I suggest its added in.
 
Cheers, got any reference pictures or sites for me to base new models or textures on? I want to make the Irish and Welsh more interesting in the next version since most of the focus so far has been on England and Scotland. Also what about any significant warriors or leaders of them at the time?
 
most of the famous lords and warriors were descent from Brian Boru and were of the Dal Cais tribe. But a few other familys are noted, Malachi who Brian fought for the irish throne in around 1000 A.D. was originally susposed to be king. His family was the actual royal line.

A chainmailed soldier with sword, this would be like a standard Irish Infantry soldier
http://www.raisonsbrassband.com/images/chainmail.jpg
those would be a militia type unit, using cloth/leather armor and small bucklers and possibley a sword but most likely 2 spears 1 thrown and 1 used for hand-to-hand,
http://www.truethomas.com/images/kerns-galloglass.jpg

The Irish renowned Galloglaich
http://www.geocities.com/na_degadmedieval_ireland/Galloglaich-History-and-Equipment
 
Know it's not thread for it, but responding to OBrian here;

In Ireland in 1297, the descendants of Brian were increasingly marginalized, due to the Eoghanacht family of the Mac Carthaig reclaiming kingship of Munster. The Ui Briain tribe was relegated largely to Munster and the Aran Islands. Further, the two-handed axemen you refer to were the King's Orphans. They never served kings other than Brian because most, if not all, died at Clontarf, and they were just the orphan sons of Gall Gaedhil, mainly from from Cork and Limerick, who were adopted to serve the king; they weren't really any kind of 'official' unit or served any major capacity in an Irish army except for Brian's personal army.

Cavalry existed in much larger numbers as the 'horse-boys', who skirmished with javelins. They were a regular contingent in Irish armies used to harass. They would be the attendants of higher ranked warriors and professional soldiers who weren't expected to engage in a melee, so probably wouldn't often carry a shield, since they were meant to rush, hurl javelins, and retreat. There were quite large numbers of them. Between them and superior cavalry were regular soldiers on horseback, using a hand lance and javelins as well, but meant more for chasing routers and ambushing. Above them were royal cavalry contingents, which were themselves composed of the sons of high ranking ignoble aristocrats and nobility. Irish horsemen were often depicted hooded, incidentally. Irish horse was primarily all intended for skirmishing, but the professionals were better equipped for a melee, and their actual rough equivalent of knights would have armor. Irish horse rode on ponies instead of destriers due to the terrain in Ireland.

Irish infantry was notably light for the most part, wearing padded coats or the heavier acton, or cuton, a quilted body coat common in most of Europe at the time. The most common weapons were spears. Swords, axes, cudgels, pikes, and long polearms also saw use. Javelins of various sizes were extremely common. Longbows were not imported, the technique of making them was imitated from Welsh mercenaries as early as 1080. Mail was expensive still, and saw use primarily among wealthier soldiers and bodyguards. The Irish dressed still in the old style (a long shirt, called a leine or leint, and a short cloak called a bratt, which could be decorated with plaids, stripes, checks, etc., or left blank, all as symbols of societal standing), with the addition of deeper sleeves on their longshirts. They often had their legs exposed though, and many would be barefoot. Heavier Irish infantry was a combination of mercenary Galloglaich, homegrown imitations, and native bodyguards. As an aside, axes existed in Ireland as a weapon predating viking invasions (some bog bodies show axe wounds, and axe heads are at times found near other weapons that can be dated to earlier periods). Helmets at the time were mostly copies of Norman and imported French and Iberian designs. Simple iron round helmets also saw plenty of use, as did iron 'war hats', in addition to a plethora of leather and padded caps. Shields were a mixture of round shields, heaters, and kites., some mid-sized oval-ish shields as well. The lowest Irish soldiers though would wear practically no armor, carry light shields, and were armed lightly with short spears and long daggers, and a lot of small javelins with flights, called darts, used to disrupt enemy positions.

Also, there was not a single type of Irish, but two, the Anglo-Irish (Norman families who had adopted much of Irish culture), and the old Gaelic Irish. Norman Irish families were usually better connected and often wealthier, though rich native families inhabitted areas around the coastal cities, or the cities themselves (such as Irish merchant princes who dwelled in Galway), and Irish pirating families in the west were usually pretty rich from taxing said merchants for safe passage.

The primary, very rich native Irish royal families were the MacCarthy, led by the MacCarthy Mor, in Munster, of the traditional Eoghanacht tribe, who ruled Cashel, capitol of Munster, the MacMurrough in Leinster (the family who'd invited the Cambro-Norman Invasion to restore their king), the O'Rourke and O'Reillys in the kingdom of Breifne (a buffer between Ulster, Connacht, and Meath), the O'Neills and O'Donnells in Ulster, and the O'Connors of Connacht and part of Meath, the ancient rulers of Connacht. The O'Brien/Brian family still administered Thomond and the Aran Islands, but was in a rivalry for control of Thomond with the Norman de Clare family. The political scene of Ireland is vastly more complicated than famous lords and warriors being descended from one or two people, though mind the Irish were so heavily intermarried politically that most kings were related somehow. However, 'royal lines' didn't exist really in Irish society, though dynasties did. Succession didn't go to the sons of the current king, but to his brothers, uncles, cousins, etc., through an elective position called the Tanist, who would be selected from eligible members of those that possessed rigdamna, a complex system of descent that chose possible successors from an extensive pool of potentials.

The heads of these families, with anglicized surnames for simplicities sake, were:

MacCarthy - Domnall Ruad MacCarthy (by this time quite elderly), king of Desmond and the great bulk of Munster

O'Brien (in Thomond) - Toirrdelbach O'Brien, ruled northern Munster

O'Brian (in Aran) - Possibly a guy named Cobthach O'Brian, but I'm not sure. A pirate lord though, really

MacMurrough - Muiris mac Muirchertach MacMurrough (Or MacMurrough-Kavanagh) - Of Norman and Irish descent, ostensibly king of Leinster

O'Neill - Domnall O'Neill, king of Ulster (actually considered king of Tir Eoghain and Ailech), though he was opposed by Richard Óg de Burgh, Earl of Ulster as recognized by the English

O'Rourke - Amlaib MacArt, king of the O'Rourkes and O'Reillys, ruled Breifne, was from the O'Rourke

O'Connor - Aedh O'Connor, Irish king of Connacht, opposed numerous Norman families with the aide of his vassals and cousins, as well as fought his cousins and other Irish
 
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