Dev Blog 05/12/19

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Medieval kingdoms were fraught with internal power struggles, and in many instances, the most powerful people in a realm didn’t sit directly on the throne. Instead, they wielded their influence to shape the kingdom in their image or changed the course of history completely by throwing their weight behind sweeping changes that eroded the power of those above them.

Read more at: http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/132
 
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Duh_TaleWorlds said:
RoboSenshi said:
If a sufficient amount of time has passed since the last vote, a decision type is selected randomly, albeit with weighted probabilities.
Click to expand...
I really really don't like this.

Why can't the kingdom decisions be in response to organic things happening in the game world? For example, a rival faction gaining a powerful fief can trigger a war/invasion vote or a clan leader exposed doing criminal activities can trigger an explusion or fief retraction vote.

Having these things pop up randomly at somewhat set intervals feels very gamey. Like scripted power struggles and politics rather than an organic sandbox system. It's just Warband 2.0, it's not progress.
Click to expand...
I feel like there is a misunderstanding. On the one hand, we do have events that can trigger a kingdom decision - such as the capturing of a settlement. More importantly, though, the weighed random selection is for clan leader evaluation (what type of decision do they evaluate how often) - which does not mean that a lord will propose the decision he is evaluating. That is determined based on a range of factors that are appropriate for the decision type in question and are affected by events in the world. Broadly speaking, this is an approach of high numbers, low chances.

It does mean decisions are often not a direct response to any one matter in particular. Instead, we seek to strike a balance between taking a broader range of things into account without overwhelming the player with a torrent of minor or recurring decisions.

As with all else, this is something we intend to continue to improve over time but as a general response to your concern I can say that the system does take into account organic things happening in the game world.
Click to expand...

A randomized decision is a must even the reward coming from best decision beating all others. Reinforcement Learning 101: a good AI should never have 100% probability over any action. I feel very excited about this blog in the kingdom AI aspect. Given the complexity and sandbox nature of BL world, it is almost a perfect environment for AI playground. Will the mod support for BL include opening all Kingdom decision APIs? One could actually apply Reinforcement Learning to train out a super powerful kingdom AI. Ofc it is based lots of factors, how big is the kingdom action space, what states to include, etc. It could very well become a Ph.D. long project.
 
Are we going to be hard-limited by Influence? Like, if we needed 150 influence to override a majority vote for E.G. who gets the ownership of a fief and we had only 130 is it just flat denied as an option?
I really REALLY hope not.

It'd be REALLY cool (and fitting, and engaging) to be able to push your influence here and just say "it happens anyways, get over it." This would of course mean the people who you stiffed (Probably every option except the one you chose) would get a relationship penalty for a time, but it'd be great fun. Make everybody too mad and they fight you, or leave.

Heck, you could even make Kingdom Laws (say, a slider for "Authority") that affect that penalty - if you're sufficiently dictatorial, the penalty is much less. On the other hand, if your vassals have managed to push you into going DOWN the slider (forcefully, or just because they're so unruly and you're trying to appease them) that make doing so much more penalizing. Heck, Vassal personality's could come into play here, with strongman-types respecting you more if this Law is high, but most others being slightly mad at you constantly.
 
I'm really happy about this.
Now we get to influence declarations of war, instead of being dragged into a war that is not favourable for the faction. A good blog, that has finally given some more diplomacy info.
 
Scyrius said:
Sincere question, not attempting to be sarcastic. Is this one of the Kingdom Management features that will not be available at launch?
Click to expand...

The steam page specifies that Kingdom Creation won't be available at launch. Hopefully we'll be able to at least take control of an existing kingdom at least?
 
AmateurHetman said:
I'm really happy about this.
Now we get to influence declarations of war, instead of being dragged into a war that is not favourable for the faction. A good blog, that has finally given some more diplomacy info.
Click to expand...

I know that sometimes I can be tiresome with this topic but one of the top mods created for warband is Diplomacy (Waihti - zParsifal). There is no doubt that the Bannerlord potential consumer is aware of this kind of information just as interested. And today we know very little.  That's the bar that Bannerlord diplomacy must far exceed; a sequel must improve on the different aspects that its predecessor... not the other way around.

Aside from the combat mechanics (1st Pillar for me), the two fundamental pillars here are diplomacy and the kingdom's management. Of the first we know absolutely nothing (microscopic bits at most); of the second we know a little more (by complementary mechanics) but unfortunately the devs did not want (or could) deepen their explanations.

That secrecy that surrounds the diplomacy feature is, for me, quite disturbing as well as worrying.


 
Terco_Viejo said:
I know that sometimes I can be tiresome with this topic but one of the top mods created for warband is Diplomacy (Waihti - zParsifal). There is no doubt that the Bannerlord potential consumer is aware of this kind of information just as interested. And today we know very little.  That's the bar that Bannerlord diplomacy must far exceed; a sequel must improve on the different aspects that its predecessor... not the other way around.

Aside from the combat mechanics (1st Pillar for me), the two fundamental pillars here are diplomacy and the kingdom's management. Of the first we know absolutely nothing (microscopic bits at most); of the second we know a little more (by complementary mechanics) but unfortunately the devs did not want (or could) deepen their explanations.

That secrecy that surrounds the diplomacy feature is, for me, quite disturbing as well as worrying.
Click to expand...

Oh I’m not saying I’m fully satisfied. But it’s been a while since we received any new diplomacy info.

I always play warband with diplomacy, it’s a great mod. I do hope Bannerlord’s diplomacy surpasses the warband mod, as it would be a missed opportunity.

I sympathise with you that it is worrying that we’re not being told a lot, but at the same time TWs may not want to reveal too much, especially with early access coming soon.
 
AmateurHetman said:
Terco_Viejo said:
I know that sometimes I can be tiresome with this topic but one of the top mods created for warband is Diplomacy (Waihti - zParsifal). There is no doubt that the Bannerlord potential consumer is aware of this kind of information just as interested. And today we know very little.  That's the bar that Bannerlord diplomacy must far exceed; a sequel must improve on the different aspects that its predecessor... not the other way around.

Aside from the combat mechanics (1st Pillar for me), the two fundamental pillars here are diplomacy and the kingdom's management. Of the first we know absolutely nothing (microscopic bits at most); of the second we know a little more (by complementary mechanics) but unfortunately the devs did not want (or could) deepen their explanations.

That secrecy that surrounds the diplomacy feature is, for me, quite disturbing as well as worrying.
Click to expand...

Oh I’m not saying I’m fully satisfied. But it’s been a while since we received any new diplomacy info.

I always play warband with diplomacy, it’s a great mod. I do hope Bannerlord’s diplomacy surpasses the warband mod, as it would be a missed opportunity.

I sympathise with you that it is worrying that we’re not being told a lot, but at the same time TWs may not want to reveal too much, especially with early access coming soon.
Click to expand...

Forgive me, mate, if I was sounding like I was reproaching you.
The motto "they don't want to reveal much"  along with "we don't want to spoil the user's playable experience" is no longer valid for me; honestly. Not because we are in EA territory; as a potential consumer I want to know what I will have at my disposal and what additional content will be complemented when the final built is released.

I don't mind waiting, just tell me if what I'm willing to wait for is going to be worth it. With the diplomacy thing, the same... tell me in broad strokes that it really exists in the game, you don't need to dissect it for me (Keep on your line). Tell me what options I have, so that I can manage my playable experience. :cool:
How would Taleworlds surprise me?, even though it already did it with the Ruwa feature; to release the final build with the naval combat included. That would be surprising for me.
 
Terco_Viejo said:
AmateurHetman said:
Terco_Viejo said:
I know that sometimes I can be tiresome with this topic but one of the top mods created for warband is Diplomacy (Waihti - zParsifal). There is no doubt that the Bannerlord potential consumer is aware of this kind of information just as interested. And today we know very little.  That's the bar that Bannerlord diplomacy must far exceed; a sequel must improve on the different aspects that its predecessor... not the other way around.

Aside from the combat mechanics (1st Pillar for me), the two fundamental pillars here are diplomacy and the kingdom's management. Of the first we know absolutely nothing (microscopic bits at most); of the second we know a little more (by complementary mechanics) but unfortunately the devs did not want (or could) deepen their explanations.

That secrecy that surrounds the diplomacy feature is, for me, quite disturbing as well as worrying.
Click to expand...

Oh I’m not saying I’m fully satisfied. But it’s been a while since we received any new diplomacy info.

I always play warband with diplomacy, it’s a great mod. I do hope Bannerlord’s diplomacy surpasses the warband mod, as it would be a missed opportunity.

I sympathise with you that it is worrying that we’re not being told a lot, but at the same time TWs may not want to reveal too much, especially with early access coming soon.
Click to expand...

Forgive me, mate, if I was sounding like I was reproaching you.
The motto "they don't want to reveal much"  along with "we don't want to spoil the user's playable experience" is no longer valid for me; honestly. Not because we are in EA territory; as a potential consumer I want to know what I will have at my disposal and what additional content will be complemented when the final built is released.

I don't mind waiting, just tell me if what I'm willing to wait for is going to be worth it. With the diplomacy thing, the same... tell me in broad strokes that it really exists in the game, you don't need to dissect it for me (Keep on your line). Tell me what options I have, so that I can manage my playable experience. :cool:
How would Taleworlds surprise me?, even though it already did it with the Ruwa feature; to release the final build with the naval combat included. That would be surprising for me.
Click to expand...

Understood, that is fair enough. We all care about Bannerlord and it would be sad to see it not fulfill its full potential.
 
But BL will not be at it's full potential when it is released because it is still only Early Access with many features either missing entirely or severely reduced in capability.  I can understand TW's reluctance to reveal too much at this stage because I would not be surprised if the EA build is not yet fully decided.  I am sure they know what they want in the initial EA release but, like the forum update, they are still working on it and may decide to not include certain features. 
 
AmateurHetman said:
I do hope Bannerlord’s diplomacy surpasses the warband mod, as it would be a missed opportunity.
Click to expand...

I think this phrase summarize the overall perception by the hardcore fanbase.

If I were TW I would pretty much look for every successful mod in Warband and try to put them as some sort of the native content.
 
Jonat818 said:
Scyrius said:
Sincere question, not attempting to be sarcastic. Is this one of the Kingdom Management features that will not be available at launch?
Click to expand...

The steam page specifies that Kingdom Creation won't be available at launch. Hopefully we'll be able to at least take control of an existing kingdom at least?
Click to expand...

Kingdom CREATION won't be available at launch, kingdom management will. By that assumption, I see no reason why we couldnt take over an existing kingdom?
 
FBohler said:
AmateurHetman said:
I do hope Bannerlord’s diplomacy surpasses the warband mod, as it would be a missed opportunity.
Click to expand...

I think this phrase summarize the overall perception by the hardcore fanbase.

If I were TW I would pretty much look for every successful mod in Warband and try to put them as some sort of the native content.
Click to expand...
I hope so !

And... cattle must follow the player !!!
 
Duh_TaleWorlds said:
RoboSenshi said:
If a sufficient amount of time has passed since the last vote, a decision type is selected randomly, albeit with weighted probabilities.
Click to expand...
I really really don't like this.

Why can't the kingdom decisions be in response to organic things happening in the game world? For example, a rival faction gaining a powerful fief can trigger a war/invasion vote or a clan leader exposed doing criminal activities can trigger an explusion or fief retraction vote.

Having these things pop up randomly at somewhat set intervals feels very gamey. Like scripted power struggles and politics rather than an organic sandbox system. It's just Warband 2.0, it's not progress.
Click to expand...
I feel like there is a misunderstanding. On the one hand, we do have events that can trigger a kingdom decision - such as the capturing of a settlement. More importantly, though, the weighed random selection is for clan leader evaluation (what type of decision do they evaluate how often) - which does not mean that a lord will propose the decision he is evaluating. That is determined based on a range of factors that are appropriate for the decision type in question and are affected by events in the world. Broadly speaking, this is an approach of high numbers, low chances.

It does mean decisions are often not a direct response to any one matter in particular. Instead, we seek to strike a balance between taking a broader range of things into account without overwhelming the player with a torrent of minor or recurring decisions.

As with all else, this is something we intend to continue to improve over time but as a general response to your concern I can say that the system does take into account organic things happening in the game world.
Click to expand...
Alright good to know. I feel better about the system now thanks.
 
LeChat said:
FBohler said:
AmateurHetman said:
I do hope Bannerlord’s diplomacy surpasses the warband mod, as it would be a missed opportunity.
Click to expand...

I think this phrase summarize the overall perception by the hardcore fanbase.

If I were TW I would pretty much look for every successful mod in Warband and try to put them as some sort of the native content.
Click to expand...
I hope so !

And... cattle must follow the player !!!
Click to expand...

Or maybe now we can get some neat Swadian Shepherd dogs to get the job done  :lol:
 
FBohler said:
LeChat said:
FBohler said:
AmateurHetman said:
I do hope Bannerlord’s diplomacy surpasses the warband mod, as it would be a missed opportunity.
Click to expand...

I think this phrase summarize the overall perception by the hardcore fanbase.

If I were TW I would pretty much look for every successful mod in Warband and try to put them as some sort of the native content.
Click to expand...
I hope so !

And... cattle must follow the player !!!
Click to expand...

Or maybe now we can get some neat Swadian Shepherd dogs to get the job done  :lol:
Click to expand...
Yeah ! And we can train them. They would have skills and proficiencies, they would level up, get perks. We can also use them at war, so they would need armours, weapons, ... ahem...
 
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