Hello. One thing I like a lot about Mount and Blade is the concern to make the game as real as possible, "historical".
Therefore, I want to contribute with one information to the game developers:
In Sturgian troop tree the Ulfhednar are inferior to the Berserker... But, this is not right.
They are known as Odin's special warriors. An elite viking unit, well beyond Berserker!
Yes, that's why I said "historical" in quotes. I'm just correcting this inspiration...
As it stands, it's like saying a police officer is superior to a marine soldier, for example. In a way, this can even be disrespectful.
Hmm, I agree with the OP here. We other people may not be so familiar with this, but for those who are, it may feel like a knight is upgraded to a squire. Would any of you like this or defend TW ? Just because this is a lesser known example we shouldnt act blind or suppressive and be understanding. Even myself, after learning this thanks to OP became irritated by this.
Hopefully TW would change this.
One more example I would like to give related to this problem is Tarkan.Remember Tarkan ? Khuzait elite infantry. Yeah, I am not so sure about them. Tarkans were elite warriors of steppe empires. Why would elite warriors of steppe warriors be infantry ? They are still top tier but I just find it weird to see the name tarkan being spend on an infantry unit.
Hmm, I agree with the OP here. We other people may not be so familiar with this, but for those who are, it may feel like a knight is upgraded to a squire. Would any of you like this or defend TW ? Just because this is a lesser known example we shouldnt act blind or suppressive and be understanding. Even myself, after learning this thanks to OP became irritated by this.
Hopefully TW would change this.
One more example I would like to give related to this problem is Tarkan.Remember Tarkan ? Khuzait elite infantry. Yeah, I am not so sure about them. Tarkans were elite warriors of steppe empires. Why would elite warriors of steppe warriors be infantry ? They are still top tier but I just find it weird to see the name tarkan being spend on an infantry unit.
Why do Khuzait infantry have to be elite, the entire point of the Khuzaits is horse archers and light cavalry withe some lancers.
Also from some of the gameplay footage while the Tarkan is top tier it appears to be beaten by mid or sometimes even low tier units at least in melee.
Hello. One thing I like a lot about Mount and Blade is the concern to make the game as real as possible, "historical".
Therefore, I want to contribute with one information to the game developers:
In Sturgian troop tree the Ulfhednar are inferior to the Berserker... But, this is not right.
They are known as Odin's special warriors. An elite viking unit, well beyond Berserker!
EDIT: Alrighty then ! petmonster_tw confirmed it will be fixed. Thank you very much. We shall all be happy !
I have always supported Sturgian cryers because I can relate to them.
For years Turks were represented in video games as a form of Arabs.
Now this Ulfhednar-Berserkir thing is more like a German/Scandinavian related thing rather than Sturgia and Kievan Rus so I am not talking about it,
In medieval 2 total war for example. There are only 2 middle eastern factions in the game compared to all those European factions. This itself is a spit on the face in the first place.
And the Turks, the only middle eastern faction in the game apart from Egypt, dont even have their own general sound.
An Arabic accented guy is speaking. Units phenotypes are beardy and dark. Turks apart from ruling class and pashas never favoured beard but moustaches. Units are Arab looking, Arab named. WTF is naffatun ? I am amazingly interested in medieval times and read history a lot but I have no idea what a naffatun means, was, meant to be.
Hashasim !!! I assume they mistyped hashasin ? You know, since ''m'' and ''n'' are next to each other in keyboard. Hashashin were an iranian shia cult that was assassinating(the word derives from them) state leaders(most famously brilliant iranian seljuk vizier Nizamülmülk). So they were one of the fiercest and most dangerous enemies of Seljuks, Total War add them as a heavy infantry to ''the Turks'' faction. Heavy infantry wielding a huge ass shield and a sword. At least make them a light infantry damn it !!! I am beyond their historical side, them not being battle units but nothing has nothing to do with it ! Even the name is wrong !
Saracen milita. ''saracen'' What crusaders called arab muslims in medieval ages. There is no more stereotypy you can get than this even if you want to. Maybe saracen camel rider ?
Even the most famous to west janissaries are represented wrong. No Janisarry shock troop ? Before gunpowder a Janissary was an archer and a shock troop before anything. They were known for wearing no armour and the most useful janissary melee troop in the game is ''janissary heavy infantry''.
''The Turks'' flag itself is a huge spit on the face. Again very stereotypy. At least they dont know crescent and star became islams symbol because of Ottoman Empire. In islam you cant actually use sky objects as flags because thats shirk(suggesting partner to Allah, the hugest sin), that became a thing with Ottoman empire, crsecent was actually a Turkic pagan symbol but after Ottoman empire fell many muslim countries started using crescent in its memory. Even the ones that have never been part of it such as Malaysia.
Star next to the flag was added to Ottoman flag in 19th century.
Egypt flag is more hilarious because it is actually Ottoman classical flag. Those crescents being 3 actually symbolise Ottoman Empire having lands on 3 continents. Egypt on the other hand has lands only in 2 continents, none in Europe.
Ofc Creative Assembly(devs of Total War) didnt think of this, they thought, hmm crescent and star is modern Turkeys and Ottoman empires flag today and it is islams symbol but lets make it more islamic for the sake of ''medieval ages'' and make primary color green. Result: Pakistani flag.
If simply there was no land on the other side of ocean and Europe didnt advance to number 1 spot of earth leaving China, India, middle east etc behind, if they werent the centre of World media and so on...
in games like Med 2 Total War it would be a French speaking general for pretty much every European faction.
In Ottoman Empire Europe was called Frengistan: Land of Franks. They were all French to the Ottoman Empire.
Even in one of recent times Turkish historical series in battle of Mohacs Hungarians were wearing Spanish conquistador armors.
I dont know if tomarrow will far east surpass west not only in economics but will it also follow it up in taking over of world media and holding the power of choosing the pop-culture icons but if it does I assure you all those Europeans from teen to old ones are going to get their head bashed(metaphorically ofc) until they learn every single ethnicity and cultural group of China they labeled as one in the past(Tibetans for example)
But I also have to add up sth about the Sturgia criers, although I supported them, from my little research and what I read from them, they seem to be mistaking what TW promised us with Sturgia. We arent promised with a typical ''Slav'' faction. Of course Kievan Rus was a Slav faction but they seem to ignore and want it to be ignored the huge scandinavian effect on Kievan Rus.
One website says even the name Rus according to a strong theory was initially a scandinavian tribes name. Also that the state started after Slavs decided they argue so much so asked for Scandinavians to come and rule them.
From what I see in Google images the armors are a mixture of Tatar and Viking armors, except that Druzhina helmet, but I am not even sure if even that didnt derive from pointy conical helmets of steppe people.
From what I understood their early history is very foggy so noone knows how much part did Scandinavians have on society, were they quickly assimiliated like those Norman kings in Europe ? Did they govern Slavs like Turkic mamluks governed Arabs having pride in their lineage and paying attention to preserving it ?
For me I would rather make the banners slavic just to make Slav community happier. I mean the game has a huge and loyal slav community and you already made a huge gesture by adding something so seldomly used when there was Vikings, you can just say you were influenced by other Slavic kingdoms and make the banners slavic. I mean what is the point of sticking to one theory about Kievan Rus, isnt the game taking place in a fictional World ? Just say you were influenced by other Slavic kingdoms too and add those slavic banners to the game.
Hello. One thing I like a lot about Mount and Blade is the concern to make the game as real as possible, "historical".
Therefore, I want to contribute with one information to the game developers:
In Sturgian troop tree the Ulfhednar are inferior to the Berserker... But, this is not right.
They are known as Odin's special warriors. An elite viking unit, well beyond Berserker!
Hello. One thing I like a lot about Mount and Blade is the concern to make the game as real as possible, "historical".
Therefore, I want to contribute with one information to the game developers:
In Sturgian troop tree the Ulfhednar are inferior to the Berserker... But, this is not right.
They are known as Odin's special warriors. An elite viking unit, well beyond Berserker!
One more example I would like to give related to this problem is Tarkan.Remember Tarkan ? Khuzait elite infantry. Yeah, I am not so sure about them. Tarkans were elite warriors of steppe empires. Why would elite warriors of steppe warriors be infantry ? They are still top tier but I just find it weird to see the name tarkan being spend on an infantry unit.
From my memory, Tarkan wasn't so much a title distinguishing an elite warrior so much as it was a title that represented that the individual held the esteem of the ruler. A position of honor and nobility rather than purely combat prowess.
If that is the interpretation chosen, then I can see them being infantry. Taleworlds might intend them to represent an honor-guard type unit. Generals and Khans didn't always command from the front-lines of a battle, especially when it came to the exploits of those from the steppes who valued cunning and strategy in battle over glory. So following this train of thought then Taleworlds' Tarkans might be the men hand picked to guard the lord's private tent and wherever they commanded from. That's the idea I've got.
Seleucid said:
Why do Khuzait infantry have to be elite, the entire point of the Khuzaits is horse archers and light cavalry withe some lancers.
Also from some of the gameplay footage while the Tarkan is top tier it appears to be beaten by mid or sometimes even low tier units at least in melee.
I think it is important for them to have a decent quality infantry unit simply because a roster too heavily involving cavalry can be awkward for map design and balance reasons.
And that level of performance happens to fit that design I guess. With elite horse archers and lancers, having their best infantry be good but not great is a fair fit for balance.
EDIT: Alrighty then ! petmonster_tw confirmed it will be fixed. Thank you very much. We shall all be happy !
I have always supported Sturgian cryers because I can relate to them.
For years Turks were represented in video games as a form of Arabs.
Now this Ulfhednar-Berserkir thing is more like a German/Scandinavian related thing rather than Sturgia and Kievan Rus so I am not talking about it,
In medieval 2 total war for example. There are only 2 middle eastern factions in the game compared to all those European factions. This itself is a spit on the face in the first place.
And the Turks, the only middle eastern faction in the game apart from Egypt, dont even have their own general sound.
An Arabic accented guy is speaking. Units phenotypes are beardy and dark. Turks apart from ruling class and pashas never favoured beard but moustaches. Units are Arab looking, Arab named. WTF is naffatun ? I am amazingly interested in medieval times and read history a lot but I have no idea what a naffatun means, was, meant to be.
Hashasim !!! I assume they mistyped hashasin ? You know, since ''m'' and ''n'' are next to each other in keyboard. Hashashin were an iranian shia cult that was assassinating(the word derives from them) state leaders(most famously brilliant iranian seljuk vizier Nizamülmülk). So they were one of the fiercest and most dangerous enemies of Seljuks, Total War add them as a heavy infantry to ''the Turks'' faction. Heavy infantry wielding a huge ass shield and a sword. At least make them a light infantry damn it !!! I am beyond their historical side, them not being battle units but nothing has nothing to do with it ! Even the name is wrong !
Saracen milita. ''saracen'' What crusaders called arab muslims in medieval ages. There is no more stereotypy you can get than this even if you want to. Maybe saracen camel rider ?
Even the most famous to west janissaries are represented wrong. No Janisarry shock troop ? Before gunpowder a Janissary was an archer and a shock troop before anything. They were known for wearing no armour and the most useful janissary melee troop in the game is ''janissary heavy infantry''.
''The Turks'' flag itself is a huge spit on the face. Again very stereotypy. At least they dont know crescent and star became islams symbol because of Ottoman Empire. In islam you cant actually use sky objects as flags because thats shirk(suggesting partner to Allah, the hugest sin), that became a thing with Ottoman empire, crsecent was actually a Turkic pagan symbol but after Ottoman empire fell many muslim countries started using crescent in its memory. Even the ones that have never been part of it such as Malaysia.
Star next to the flag was added to Ottoman flag in 19th century.
Egypt flag is more hilarious because it is actually Ottoman classical flag. Those crescents being 3 actually symbolise Ottoman Empire having lands on 3 continents. Egypt on the other hand has lands only in 2 continents, none in Europe.
Ofc Creative Assembly(devs of Total War) didnt think of this, they thought, hmm crescent and star is modern Turkeys and Ottoman empires flag today and it is islams symbol but lets make it more islamic for the sake of ''medieval ages'' and make primary color green. Result: Pakistani flag.
If simply there was no land on the other side of ocean and Europe didnt advance to number 1 spot of earth leaving China, India, middle east etc behind, if they werent the centre of World media and so on...
in games like Med 2 Total War it would be a French speaking general for pretty much every European faction.
In Ottoman Empire Europe was called Frengistan: Land of Franks. They were all French to the Ottoman Empire.
Even in one of recent times Turkish historical series in battle of Mohacs Hungarians were wearing Spanish conquistador armors.
I dont know if tomarrow will far east surpass west not only in economics but will it also follow it up in taking over of world media and holding the power of choosing the pop-culture icons but if it does I assure you all those Europeans from teen to old ones are going to get their head bashed(metaphorically ofc) until they learn every single ethnicity and cultural group of China they labeled as one in the past(Tibetans for example)
But I also have to add up sth about the Sturgia criers, although I supported them, from my little research and what I read from them, they seem to be mistaking what TW promised us with Sturgia. We arent promised with a typical ''Slav'' faction. Of course Kievan Rus was a Slav faction but they seem to ignore and want it to be ignored the huge scandinavian effect on Kievan Rus.
One website says even the name Rus according to a strong theory was initially a scandinavian tribes name. Also that the state started after Slavs decided they argue so much so asked for Scandinavians to come and rule them.
From what I see in Google images the armors are a mixture of Tatar and Viking armors, except that Druzhina helmet, but I am not even sure if even that didnt derive from pointy conical helmets of steppe people.
From what I understood their early history is very foggy so noone knows how much part did Scandinavians have on society, were they quickly assimiliated like those Norman kings in Europe ? Did they govern Slavs like Turkic mamluks governed Arabs having pride in their lineage and paying attention to preserving it ?
For me I would rather make the banners slavic just to make Slav community happier. I mean the game has a huge and loyal slav community and you already made a huge gesture by adding something so seldomly used when there was Vikings, you can just say you were influenced by other Slavic kingdoms and make the banners slavic. I mean what is the point of sticking to one theory about Kievan Rus, isnt the game taking place in a fictional World ? Just say you were influenced by other Slavic kingdoms too and add those slavic banners to the game.
I believe Normans are the closest point of comparison, wealthy and successful adventures that eventually disappeared simply out of consequence of ruling over a people who outnumbered them so extremely.
I am a bit torn between what I want from the Sturgians. I would prefer a larger Slavic influence for flavor. But I do want Scandinavian infantry for gameplay. I think the Empire also benefits if Sturgia has Scandinavian infantry, because then a player can have their Varangian Guard if they want. Which I think a lot of Empire players will. I hope that their cavalry and their archers are very Slavic and only the infantry are Scandinavian, I think. Which makes sense anyway. Just enough to make it feel like there are more Slavs than Scandinavians.
Oh and one comment regarding what you mentioned about China. If China does rise to become a cultural juggernaut like Europe has in the past, it will be quite different. The Chinese themselves are taught to forget names like "Tibetan". The government has a very strong focus on unity, they don't like people remembering that China wasn't always united like it is today and they don't like people outside of China knowing it either. A few video games have been banned there in the past simply for displaying earlier periods in history when Tibet was its own empire, or before the Manchu tribes conquered and eventually merged with China or before Taiwan was colonized.
I believe Normans are the closest point of comparison, wealthy and successful adventures that eventually disappeared simply out of consequence of ruling over a people who outnumbered them so extremely.
I am a bit torn between what I want from the Sturgians. I would prefer a larger Slavic influence for flavor. But I do want Scandinavian infantry for gameplay. I think the Empire also benefits if Sturgia has Scandinavian infantry, because then a player can have their Varangian Guard if they want. Which I think a lot of Empire players will. I hope that their cavalry and their archers are very Slavic and only the infantry are Scandinavian, I think. Which makes sense anyway. Just enough to make it feel like there are more Slavs than Scandinavians.
Oh and one comment regarding what you mentioned about China. If China does rise to become a cultural juggernaut like Europe has in the past, it will be quite different. The Chinese themselves are taught to forget names like "Tibetan". The government has a very strong focus on unity, they don't like people remembering that China wasn't always united like it is today and they don't like people outside of China knowing it either. A few video games have been banned there in the past simply for displaying earlier periods in history when Tibet was its own empire, or before the Manchu tribes conquered and eventually merged with China or before Taiwan was colonized.
First of all welcome to the forum.
You seem to be someone really knowledgeable about history and politics, nice to have more of this kind of forum users.
Anyway, from what I read in this forums they are not complaining from Scandinavian elite infantry troops in Sturgia. Actually there is a that kind of group but there is ''any'' kind of group after all
They are mostly unhappy with banners and kingdoms flag being Scandinavian motives rather than Slavic motives, the lords and kings name being of Scandinavian origin.
Some of them want ''scandinavians'' to be completely limited to the minor faction (we already have jomvikings for Sturgia) and make the main of the faction completely Slavic and Sturgia having its troop tree clean out of them and use their huskarls only as mercenaries.
Some of them say we are okay with them in our troop tree but they shall stay as one branch and not intervene with every branch(in 2018 gamescom Sturgia troop tree, as if it was a joke to Slavic community, nearly all the last tier soldiers in Sturgia were ''huskarl'' or ''mounted huskarl''). Apart from this, they shall make the banners, the lord, king names and faction flags chosen among slavic motives.
I think the Empire also benefits if Sturgia has Scandinavian infantry, because then a player can have their Varangian Guard if they want. Which I think a lot of Empire players will. I hope that their cavalry and their archers are very Slavic and only the infantry are Scandinavian, I think. Which makes sense anyway. Just enough to make it feel like there are more Slavs than Scandinavians.
Hahaha You think just like in real life Empire is going to need to import its Scandinavian mercenaries from Kievan Rus aka Sturgia No need mate, this game is in a fictional setting and they already confirmed one of the Empires minor faction is Varangian based. So it is completely unrelated.
I assume in game lore they can just explain it as ''at first Empire called many Nordic warriors as mercenaries then the children of these mercenaries formed a military elite, never mixing with other groups of peoples''.
Anyway as I said *actually just copy pasting* dont read if you did
I would rather make the banners slavic just to make Slav community happier. I mean the game has a huge and loyal slav community and you already made a huge gesture by adding something so seldomly used when there was Vikings, you can just say you were influenced by other Slavic kingdoms and make the banners slavic. I mean what is the point of sticking to one theory about Kievan Rus, isnt the game taking place in a fictional World ? Just say you were influenced by other Slavic kingdoms too and add those slavic banners to the game.
About China, yeah you are right, why didnt I think of this, they would rather pressure the character of Tibetans.
Though I still think without them being in control, as those parts of the World gain more and more attention by the World, we will get to know more about China and even things they dont want us to pay attention to, such as Uyghurs, like you said Manchu's founding their Qing empire, Tibetans, muslim Chinese etc will be known more.
At the moment USA is bashing its own head to completely understand China and also they even started to pressure China about them violating human rights of Uyghurs etc.
Wrong. Ulfhednar is Berserker who wears wolf skin. That's all. There's no other difference between them.
In Vatnsdæla saga:
"those berserkers which were called ulfhednar, they have wolf cloaks over their armor and they defended the bow of king's ship"
"þeir berserkir er úlfhéðnar voru kallaðir. Þeir höfðu vargstakka fyrir brynjur og vörðu framstafn á konungsskipinu"
In Yanglinga saga:
"his (Odin's) men went without armor and they were crazy as dogs and wolves. They bit their shields and they were strong as bears and boars. They killed men and neither iron or fire could hurt them. This is called going berserk"
Also they are not "unit". They are Scandinavian outlaws and sociopats causing mayhem around the country, sometimes hired or enlisted for war.
But I also have to add up sth about the Sturgia criers, although I supported them, from my little research and what I read from them, they seem to be mistaking what TW promised us with Sturgia. We arent promised with a typical ''Slav'' faction. Of course Kievan Rus was a Slav faction but they seem to ignore and want it to be ignored the huge scandinavian effect on Kievan Rus.
Personally i think there is too much slavic influence in Sturgia already. It should be less. If i understand correclty Sturgians inspired by pre-christian early medieval Rus state of 9 and 10 centuries. And yes Rus were scandinavian tribe as it's literally mentioned in Primary Chronicle
We are all aware that Mount&Blade games don't feature religions, so based on the comment I am quoting I demand that the Aserais should munch on bacon sandwiches and lagers.
I don't care about more or less Slavic influence for Sturgians or how much Kievan Rus they are, I care about in-game lore. From Warband we know that in exchange for their service to Empire, Nords were granted coastal lands, Sturgians seem to be perfect kingdom for this - a group of native Calradians ruled over by Nord elite that were 'granted' the lands which were already inhabited. This is why I wanted their troop tree clean from overly Nord-like units, instead having a heavy, Nord infantry to be elite unit that can be recruited only by befriending Sturgian nobility.
I'm happy that the Huskarls seem to be, indeed, that elite troop, not overly happy with berserkers, but I get the need for shock infantry.
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You think just like in real life Empire is going to need to import its Scandinavian mercenaries from Kievan Rus aka Sturgia 
