Author Topic: 1453  (Read 1966 times)

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Captured Joe

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Re: 1453
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2019, 01:10:54 PM »
OK, how 'bout Eleftherios Venizelos did nothing wrong?
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Re: 1453
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2019, 12:18:55 PM »
In that case, nobody did anything wrong. Thus, our range reaches to everywhere

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KhergitLancer99

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Re: 1453
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2019, 04:46:27 PM »
I reviewed all the posts of the OP( he has only 4 posts)
He is an underage first and foremost. While he didnt reveal his exact age he said he stuck at age barrier in previous elections (23 June 2019).
So he can be a child or he can be a high school student.

He is brainwashed enough to think the opposition stole the votes to get Istanbul. An Erdogan propaganda that even many of his supporters smiled at.

These being said it is true that Erdogan and his party consider themselves neo-Ottomanist but they also rewrite the history to make some Ottoman sultans look familiar to themselves. Especially Abdulhamid II.

Anyway, in high school I remember our history teacher mentioning the three days of pillaging but of course not every teacher are the same and the government supporters are often made up of imbeciles who believe the entire education system is Kemalist(followers of Atatürk principles) propaganda and that we show Ottoman Empire badly.

They have their half sheikh-half armchair historian(!) people who are supported by government and write **** about history around their ideology(which is islamism and neo-ottomanism). If you see a Turk hating on Atatürk and accusing him of being the responsible of fall of Ottoman Empire know that he is extremely brainwashed and an islamist who learnt history from very wrong sources such as sheikhs and tariqahs(cults). Schools mention Atatürk as a hero and they are good at teaching his principles but ofc I dont know every school and every teacher, there are many imam schools opened by Erdogan now. They probably dont stick to curriculum too much.

I remember not my history teacher but my religion teacher in high school claiming through its 622 years of history there had only been 2 stealing incidents within the empire. I actually, being an atheist a Kemalist and above all these a rationalist, argued with the teacher and even told this to our history teacher who told me not to worry about it and just ignore.
They also claim when Ottoman army passed through a garden while going on a campaign if they took a fruit from a tree they binded a golden coin on its branch. Now the thing about Ottomans not relying on raids while going on campaigns is a historical fact but not in this way. The army was followed by a group of military merchants whom sold stuff to them constantly but they raided the enemy terriories and if they would want a fruit they would buy one from those merchants I mentioned earlier by giving its price.

So yes, they show Ottomans as far better than everyone if not as saints.Maybe they are right in terms of religious toleration up until some point but even that was because they had to since they always had a very big non-muslim population not because they were very good people.
Though Hayreddin Barbaros helping Jews in Spain during Spanish inquisition and Ottoman empire settling them in Turkey and allowing them to pray in Synagogues seeing them as a richness in their society is mindblowing for the era.

Though enslavement of Slavic people and selling them to Arabs in Egypt is overlooked. Also they hilariously claim Ottomans made conquest to make World a better place(they dont directly say this but they imply) but dont forget most of these depend on the teacher as well.

Also the fact that they overlooked at the developements in Europe, reneissence and reform, industrial revolution and most importantly scientific mindset instead of scholastic mindset and these leading them staying behind Europe technology and sociology wise not being mentioned make Turkish youth question why did this empire fall anyway ?


Long story short they should teach Ottomans with both their goods and bads so that we dont make the same mistakes now which we unfortunately do. Thats why history is important and if you only show history with its good sides its nothing more than a masturbation material.

Vermillion_Hawk

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Re: 1453
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2019, 08:57:14 PM »
Though Hayreddin Barbaros helping Jews in Spain during Spanish inquisition and Ottoman empire settling them in Turkey and allowing them to pray in Synagogues seeing them as a richness in their society is mindblowing for the era.

European states considered them a "richness" in their communities as well - they just didn't want them intermingling with the Christian population, hence the restriction to the various ghettos. During times of pogrom in Europe, especially in the early modern period, you'll find that it's most often city officials and nobles, like Barbarossa (although he is a very interesting guy in his own right) who come to the defense of the Jews, usually because they're good for revenue. The Jewish ghetto in Venice was even a sort of tourist attraction for visiting dignitaries.
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KhergitLancer99

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Re: 1453
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2019, 10:22:21 PM »
Well Venice didnt move its butt to save them though right ?

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Re: 1453
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2019, 12:01:00 AM »
Sure they did, for many of the same reasons. Unless you mean from Spain? In that case, they did end up having a decent amount of immigration of Jewish "conversos" into the southern European ghettos.
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Re: 1453
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2019, 08:18:17 AM »
I remember not my history teacher but my religion teacher in high school claiming through its 622 years of history there had only been 2 stealing incidents within the empire.

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Captured Joe

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Re: 1453
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2019, 11:12:57 AM »
Well it is claimed that there were no stealing incidents at all during the reign of Vlad III "The Impaler" too...
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KhergitLancer99

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Re: 1453
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2019, 07:38:40 PM »
Well it is claimed that there were no stealing incidents at all during the reign of Vlad III "The Impaler" too...

I would believe in that though. At least any ''recorded'' stealing incidents.

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Re: 1453
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2019, 08:20:04 PM »
No evidence is evidence has always been sound logic.

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Re: 1453
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2019, 10:53:34 PM »
Is there any evidence to support that theory?

Adorno

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Re: 1453
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2019, 09:17:49 AM »
There is no evidence against it.

KhergitLancer99

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Re: 1453
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2019, 06:19:00 PM »
Any sane person would basically prefer his children starve to death rather than get caught by Vlad.

The dude implanted her children's heads to where her breasts used to be after cutting them off to a woman.

On another occasion made children eat their mothers by force.

Once invited all the homeless and impaled them.
One thing is for sure he didnt spend a day without impaling multiple people.

Some of these may be exagerration but one thing is for sure that the guy was a monster.

I think his cut head was buried to Istanbul by Ottomans.

Edit:
I will never understand the Romanians who like this guy. Because their ancestors probably hated and feared him. I respect Mikhail Vitezul but not this man.

Dont get me wrong I am not a softie who criticizes killing in medieval era. Everyone, every king did it. But this psycho was enjoying it too much.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 06:22:46 PM by KhergitLancer99 »

Captured Joe

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Re: 1453
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2019, 06:47:59 PM »
Those are probably exaggerations (as is the legend that his methods somehow made his realm crime-free); he was known mainly for impaling thiefes and his enemies and pretty much anyone who looked at him the wrong way. Abroad he subsequently gained a reputaion as an absolute monster who ate kids and murdered puppies for fun: Back in the day impalement was already rightfully considered a barbarous method of execution by the west... which was however still in use by the Ottoman Empire by the time of the Serbian revolt of 1804! :party:
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Re: 1453
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2019, 07:11:36 PM »
Constantinople was officially called Kostantinniyye(Qustantiniyya) until the very end of Ottoman period. Istanbul has been derived from Greek 'Stim boli' which meant "to the city" and was used unofficialy from the byzantine period throughout the Turkish period and only became the official name after the modern Republic of Turkey was formed.