Author Topic: Italian soldiers in Pistoia Cathedral, 1376AD  (Read 469 times)

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matmohair1

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Re: Italian soldiers in Pistoia Cathedral, 1376AD
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2019, 12:22:18 PM »
 :wink: Knight of the Obizi family (1355 - 1360) after a
gravestone from the Church of San Francisco, Pistoia
illustrated here by Eduardo Teixeira Coelho

(click to show/hide)

panel 5

 :D interesting details...

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Eastern Roman influences?!

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 01:31:40 PM by matmohair1 »

Terco_Viejo

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Re: Italian soldiers in Pistoia Cathedral, 1376AD
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2019, 03:46:34 PM »
Very interesting...Do you have any real reference to that "winged" sallet?
Or is it (as it seems to be) pure invention emanating from the mind of the artist wanting to represent Roman soldiers from a vision of the 14th century... :lol:
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Druzhina

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Re: Italian soldiers in Pistoia Cathedral, 1376AD
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2019, 04:09:17 AM »
Very interesting...Do you have any real reference to that "winged" sallet?
Or is it (as it seems to be) pure invention emanating from the mind of the artist wanting to represent Roman soldiers from a vision of the 14th century... :lol:

Helmets of non-knights are unlikely to survive in a condition where flimsy decorations are preserved.  Do you mean by "reference" a written description? 

Why would wings on helmets be associated with Romans?

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matmohair1

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Re: Italian soldiers in Pistoia Cathedral, 1376AD
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2019, 10:09:07 AM »
its could also  be a felt or fabric, helmet cover,
albeit with wing or ear like extensions.

The Halberdier Trumpeters, of the Swiss
Canton of Uri, 1470, spring to mind...

(click to show/hide)

Very interesting...Do you have any real reference to that "winged" sallet?
Or is it (as it seems to be) pure invention emanating from the mind of the artist wanting to represent Roman soldiers from a vision of the 14th century... :lol:

Helmets of non-knights are unlikely to survive in a condition where flimsy decorations are preserved.  Do you mean by "reference" a written description? 

Why would wings on helmets be associated with Romans?

Here's another interesting depiction of Roman winged helmet motifs
Crucifixion wall painting by Orcagana and others, Tuscany, 1360
Arms and Armour of the Crusading Era Vol. 1 by David Nicolle

(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 10:25:34 AM by matmohair1 »

Druzhina

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Re: Italian soldiers in Pistoia Cathedral, 1376AD
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2019, 04:49:48 AM »
Regarding the epaulettes worn by some soldiers.


Similar epaulettes are portrayed in the Villani Chronicle, 1390s - Conquest of Carmignano


and in Paintings of Italian Soldiers by Niccolo di Giovanni Ventura, 1443 in La sconfitta di Montaperti, see page 18.


and in Biblia pauperum, Austria, 1435 - Morgan MS M.230 fol. 11v



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« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 05:26:00 AM by Druzhina »

matmohair1

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Re: Italian soldiers in Pistoia Cathedral, 1376AD
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2019, 04:05:58 PM »
More wings to compare with,
this time from France...

Manuscript: BNF Latin 10525 Psautier de Saint Louis
 1270, Paris, Bibliothèque Nationale

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« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 04:08:22 PM by matmohair1 »

DanAngleland

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Re: Italian soldiers in Pistoia Cathedral, 1376AD
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2019, 08:38:39 PM »
What's with the feather headgear? Is this a depiction of reality or some sort of symbolic/fantasy outfit?