Author Topic: [Nation's Cup 2018] Announcement & Signups  (Read 27909 times)

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Topcat21

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Re: [Nation's Cup 2018] Announcement & Signups
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2018, 11:27:11 PM »
Nations cup teams don't stay around, they're not the standard tournament teams. Low tier NC teams won't become 'mid tier' it's a nation team lol
so? maybe some do maybe some don't it's just a fun tournament to fill the time till the next big standard clan tournament. Stop whining

Fietta

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Re: [Nation's Cup 2018] Announcement & Signups
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2018, 11:30:54 PM »
Nations cup teams don't stay around, they're not the standard tournament teams. Low tier NC teams won't become 'mid tier' it's a nation team lol
so? maybe some do maybe some don't it's just a fun tournament to fill the time till the next big standard clan tournament. Stop whining

Exactly it's a fun tournament, that's exactly what NC shouldn't be.
 

BenChan

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Re: [Nation's Cup 2018] Announcement & Signups
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2018, 11:35:03 PM »
I strongly agree with the sentiments above and don't see a tournament with multiple teams from the same nation as particularly constructive.

The key issue is that the tournament ceases to be a test of which nation is able to produce the single best team in Warband and becomes more like a standard tournament with elements of neo-fascist nationalism introduced in order to divide the community further. Considering the political landscape of Europe at the moment has already shifted in a such a direction with detrimental effect, this is not a dimension that needs to be introduced to an already toxic and divided community.

Secondly, there is the clear bias in favour of nations with a more active Warband scene with any nations cup, which diminishes the possibility of 'the underdogs' seizing the day and producing an exciting or at all unpredictable outcome. This kind of oppression of minorities is made systemic by the introduction of multiple teams from the same nation and demolishes the equity, diversity and inclusivity of a standard nations cup.

Finally, this new system also exacerbates internal divisions within nations as to what constitutes 'a nation'. The question of a Welsh team competing independently has already been raised, which is relatively uncontroversial as there is little tension within the UK community over Welsh independence. However, for other EU nations, there has been more recent conflict as to whether certain regions ought to be autonomous or not and whether they are in fact a constituent part of a said nation. The option for multiple teams allows for further division within each country's Warband scene which is totally unnecessary.

As a whole, therefore, this new format promotes nationalist sentiments within the community, suppresses already marginalised minorities within the community and creates further division within those already vulnerable nations. As a result, it should not under any circumstance be adopted and, if any nations cup is to be held (which I would question in itself), it should be held on the same terms as previous tournaments.

Gibby Jr

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Re: [Nation's Cup 2018] Announcement & Signups
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2018, 11:35:35 PM »
There is still plenty of place for high level competition in this tournament. The classic main teams from each nation will form and inevitably win this tournament. In the past, most of the community has been cut out of NC's because they were unable to join the top tier national teams. The change to the format is so that we don't have to cut most of the community out, especially at a time when the scene is smaller than it has ever been.


Fietta

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Re: [Nation's Cup 2018] Announcement & Signups
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2018, 11:38:48 PM »
Yeah it doesn't cut out the community but cuts out the competition. People always used to get excited trying to join their nations team and routing for them during the tournament. You always need a tournament where the best go against the best. The community being 'cut out' has never been a problem. They have plenty of chances in team tournaments.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 11:41:01 PM by Fietta »
 

Hero_of_Ferelden

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Re: [Nation's Cup 2018] Announcement & Signups
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2018, 11:41:41 PM »
I strongly agree with the sentiments above and don't see a tournament with multiple teams from the same nation as particularly constructive.

The key issue is that the tournament ceases to be a test of which nation is able to produce the single best team in Warband and becomes more like a standard tournament with elements of neo-fascist nationalism introduced in order to divide the community further. Considering the political landscape of Europe at the moment has already shifted in a such a direction with detrimental effect, this is not a dimension that needs to be introduced to an already toxic and divided community.

Secondly, there is the clear bias in favour of nations with a more active Warband scene with any nations cup, which diminishes the possibility of 'the underdogs' seizing the day and producing an exciting or at all unpredictable outcome. This kind of oppression of minorities is made systemic by the introduction of multiple teams from the same nation and demolishes the equity, diversity and inclusivity of a standard nations cup.

Finally, this new system also exacerbates internal divisions within nations as to what constitutes 'a nation'. The question of a Welsh team competing independently has already been raised, which is relatively uncontroversial as there is little tension within the UK community over Welsh independence. However, for other EU nations, there has been more recent conflict as to whether certain regions ought to be autonomous or not and whether they are in fact a constituent part of a said nation. The option for multiple teams allows for further division within each country's Warband scene which is totally unnecessary.

As a whole, therefore, this new format promotes nationalist sentiments within the community, suppresses already marginalised minorities within the community and creates further division within those already vulnerable nations. As a result, it should not under any circumstance be adopted and, if any nations cup is to be held (which I would question in itself), it should be held on the same terms as previous tournaments.


take it easy pal

Scar

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Re: [Nation's Cup 2018] Announcement & Signups
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2018, 11:43:00 PM »
People always used to get excited trying to join their nations team and routing for them during the tournament.
How can we understand that? Last year you made a strong case for a Welsh team being formed, even though half of them turned out to be English. Still, the community gave you the opportunity, and now I hear that you are trying to form a team with Shingen, who is English. What nation do you identify with? Wales or the United Kingdom? Or are you in the process of requesting an alliance between Wales and the United Kingdom?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 11:45:19 PM by Scar »

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Re: [Nation's Cup 2018] Announcement & Signups
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2018, 11:45:15 PM »
There's an easy answer to that, prior to the NC2017 I spoke with Deacon about forming a Welsh team and all was fine, I even created the Welsh team steam group 4 months prior to the NC signups.  This tournaments format is different where Wales is considered another UK team after drama in NC2017. So I'm making another UK team instead.
 

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Re: [Nation's Cup 2018] Announcement & Signups
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2018, 11:45:59 PM »
Yeah it doesn't cut out the community but cuts out the competition. People always used to get excited trying to join their nations team and routing for them during the tournament.

From my brief experience as UK captain, the players I/we had to decline were generally pretty bitter about it.

Tirtil

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Re: [Nation's Cup 2018] Announcement & Signups
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2018, 11:47:04 PM »
Sorry but this is not Nations Cup tournament then.
However i will always support any tournament but can't say i agree this system right now.

If you want to revive the current scene you can try another tournaments but Nations Cup tournaments have always  been considered as the most challenging and entartaining ones.

What i am trying to say is "Nations Cup is not a toy you can play with it"

« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 11:58:46 PM by Tirtil »
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Fietta

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Re: [Nation's Cup 2018] Announcement & Signups
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2018, 11:47:11 PM »
Yeah it doesn't cut out the community but cuts out the competition. People always used to get excited trying to join their nations team and routing for them during the tournament.

From my brief experience as UK captain, the players I/we had to decline were generally pretty bitter about it.

I agree which is why they came to me, I was never bitter nor have I ever tried to apply for the UK team. I just thought that there wouldn't be drama over the Welsh team. The ones declined from the UK team would be bitter but wouldn't care too much so they'll still route for UK.
 

Scar

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Re: [Nation's Cup 2018] Announcement & Signups
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2018, 11:49:59 PM »
This tournaments format is different where Wales is considered another UK team after drama in NC2017. So I'm making another UK team instead.
I don't think the format addresses the independance of Wales, at least not the one that we established in a long argument last year. BenChan eloquentely described that in his post, too. The only implications this years format has for Wales is that you can either have one or multiples teams.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 11:52:03 PM by Scar »

Fietta

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Re: [Nation's Cup 2018] Announcement & Signups
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2018, 11:52:36 PM »
This tournaments format is different where Wales is considered another UK team after drama in NC2017. So I'm making another UK team instead.
I don't think the format addresses the independance of Wales, at least not the one that we established in a long argument last year. BenChan eloquentely described that in his post, too. The only implications this years format has for Wales is that you can either one or multiples teams.

Gibby stated that Welsh players can form a team or join other UK teams and if Wales did form it will be another UK team. No need to discuss.
 

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Re: [Nation's Cup 2018] Announcement & Signups
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2018, 11:53:51 PM »
i think any bitterness is down to how the rejection is handled to be fair :P Deacon always struck me as pretty calm and reasonable when he told me i might not play in knockouts while i did in the group stages and most can respect that

Scar

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Re: [Nation's Cup 2018] Announcement & Signups
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2018, 11:54:30 PM »
Gibby stated that Welsh players can form a team or join other UK teams and if Wales did form it will be another UK team. No need to discuss.
I find it surprising you are giving up your national identity that quickly, considering you've fought for it so tenaciously last year.