Author Topic: [BCM] Group Stage Results - BLUE DIVISION  (Read 6681 times)

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Kiano

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Re: [BCM] Group Stage Results - BLUE DIVISION
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2018, 12:59:20 PM »
Pretty sure that rule doesn't say the other team has to match your numbers. It says teams are obligated to play the same number at the beginning of the match, that number being 8.

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Re: [BCM] Group Stage Results - BLUE DIVISION
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2018, 01:07:14 PM »
Pretty sure that rule doesn't say the other team has to match your numbers. It says teams are obligated to play the same number at the beginning of the match, that number being 8.

That is also how I understand it. Best is to wait for Orion/Imemine to clarify.
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Thorin

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Re: [BCM] Group Stage Results - BLUE DIVISION
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2018, 05:17:44 PM »
As far as I know from my friends, the last set we did start 7 people.

So what will happen now?

Orion

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Re: [BCM] Group Stage Results - BLUE DIVISION
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2018, 06:34:59 PM »
Pretty sure that rule doesn't say the other team has to match your numbers. It says teams are obligated to play the same number at the beginning of the match, that number being 8.

That's actually just what it says.
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Teams are obligated to begin each round with the same number of players.
Matches must start 8v8, but can continue & finish 7v7 if needed. Teams must match at the beginning of each round (i.e. you don't have to drop someone in the middle of a round because an opposing player crashed in that round).

See here: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,378869.0.html

Kiano

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Re: [BCM] Group Stage Results - BLUE DIVISION
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2018, 06:53:54 PM »
Maybe I should rephrase. In Thorin's case, the other team is the team that had 8. If one team has 8 players, they shouldn't be obligated to match another which has 7 right?

If teams must mach at the beginning of each round, does that mean if a team drops a player, the other team isn't obligated to drop a player that round, but must drop a player the next round to ensure team numbers match at the beginning of the next round?

Habrak

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Re: [BCM] Group Stage Results - BLUE DIVISION
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2018, 09:00:18 PM »
Group: ONE
Round: ONE
Date & Time: Began around 19:30bst 24.08.2018
Server: BCMastersOasisDE4
Teams involved: Knights of Malta vs Fallen Pride 2
Result: 12 - 0

Screenshots:
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Approved spectator list:
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PS:
Fixing the code would help, there are some rhombs missing and it just looks confusing when everything is bold ;)
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 09:10:30 PM by Habrak »

Orion

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Re: [BCM] Group Stage Results - BLUE DIVISION
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2018, 12:12:48 AM »
Maybe I should rephrase. In Thorin's case, the other team is the team that had 8. If one team has 8 players, they shouldn't be obligated to match another which has 7 right?

If teams must mach at the beginning of each round, does that mean if a team drops a player, the other team isn't obligated to drop a player that round, but must drop a player the next round to ensure team numbers match at the beginning of the next round?
The rule of thumb is that teams must always start rounds, sets, and matches with the same number of players. If one team has 8, the other team should have 8. If one team has 7, then the other team should have 7.

Specifically, matches must start 8vs8. It's possible for a player to drop unexpectedly after a match has started, reducing a team to 7 players. If that player cannot rejoin before the start of the next round and the team doesn't have another player ready to take their place, then their opponent must sit a player to make the next round after the drop start 7vs7. A team with 6 or fewer players at the start of a round will forfeit the rest of the set, and gets a minimum of 5 minutes to find a 7th player to continue playing. If they can't get back to minimum 7 players, then the rest of the match can be claimed by their opponent as default.

The administration will consult with the referee who was present and review match logs to decide what will be done in the case of Gardas vs. TCB.


PS:
Fixing the code would help, there are some rhombs missing and it just looks confusing when everything is bold ;)
Thanks! Fixed in both division threads.

Verifying IDs for Friendship Ends Gardaşlık Never vs Polska Sila & Knights of Malta vs Fallen Pride 2, then updating the scores.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 12:39:33 AM by Orion »

Kiano

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Re: [BCM] Group Stage Results - BLUE DIVISION
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2018, 12:29:06 AM »
Alright, thanks for clearing that up for me!

Orion

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Re: [BCM] Group Stage Results - BLUE DIVISION
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2018, 02:03:15 AM »
Group: ONE
Round: ONE
Date & Time: Began around 19:30bst 24.08.2018
Server: BCMastersOasisDE4
Teams involved: Knights of Malta vs Fallen Pride 2
Result: 12 - 0

Screenshots:
(click to show/hide)

Approved spectator list:
Impheatus
Virus
Player names and IDs verified.
Warnings:
FP2_MiStChEmFeN is an unacceptable variation of the name FP2_Moustache which is listed on the roster.
FP2_Feodras is an unacceptable variation of the name FP2_EnverPasa which is listed on the roster.



Group:GROUP II
Round:ROUND II
Date & Time:24.08.2018  22.30-23.30
Server:BCM_DE1
Teams involved: Friendship Ends Gardaşlık Never vs Polska Sila
Result: GARDAS 8-7 KoH

Screenshots:
(click to show/hide)
I can't see your screenshots. Please host them on a different site. Thanks!



Regarding the Gardas vs. TCB incident, the administration has decided that the reported score is final. This decision was made after discussing the situation with the referee and reviewing the server logs, where we saw the referee asked Gardas if their 8th player would return & Gardas replied that they were ready to continue without him. It would seem from the logs that both teams were willing to play in this manner. The referee should have informed TCB to sit a player, but a misunderstanding of the rules led to the final set being played 8vs7. We are taking steps to ensure our referees properly enforce this rule in the future. It is recommended for all teams to be vigilant during their matches, and to immediately note suspected rule violations in the server during the match.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 02:00:41 AM by Orion »

Feodras

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Re: [BCM] Group Stage Results - BLUE DIVISION
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2018, 09:37:25 AM »
Group: ONE
Round: ONE
Date & Time: Began around 19:30bst 24.08.2018
Server: BCMastersOasisDE4
Teams involved: Knights of Malta vs Fallen Pride 2
Result: 12 - 0

Screenshots:
(click to show/hide)

Approved spectator list:
Impheatus
Virus
Player names and IDs verified.
Warnings:
FP2_MiStChEmFeN is an unacceptable variation of the name FP2_Moustache which is listed on the roster.
FP2_Feodras is an unacceptable variation of the name FP2_EnverPasa which is listed on the roster.
(click to show/hide)

OurGloriousLeader

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Re: [BCM] Group Stage Results - BLUE DIVISION
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2018, 10:15:01 AM »
If one team has 7, then the other team should have 7....
It's possible for a player to drop unexpectedly after a match has started, reducing a team to 7 players. If that player cannot rejoin before the start of the next round and the team doesn't have another player ready to take their place, then their opponent must sit a player to make the next round after the drop start 7vs7.


This is a stupid rule and should be changed, it has not been the rule used in competitive EU since I've played at least, it was in NA for a period but stopped there also. It's also wildly open to abuse - say I have a team of 6 good players and 2 who are filling, and I'm up against a team of 8 good players. It is in my interest to therefore try to force a 7v7.

I know we've all signed up to the rules but I feel fairly confident most did not read this rule as you have interpreted it, even though looking back it's clear.

Aeronwen

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Re: [BCM] Group Stage Results - BLUE DIVISION
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2018, 10:18:02 AM »
Maybe I should rephrase. In Thorin's case, the other team is the team that had 8. If one team has 8 players, they shouldn't be obligated to match another which has 7 right?

If teams must mach at the beginning of each round, does that mean if a team drops a player, the other team isn't obligated to drop a player that round, but must drop a player the next round to ensure team numbers match at the beginning of the next round?
The rule of thumb is that teams must always start rounds, sets, and matches with the same number of players. If one team has 8, the other team should have 8. If one team has 7, then the other team should have 7.

Specifically, matches must start 8vs8. It's possible for a player to drop unexpectedly after a match has started, reducing a team to 7 players. If that player cannot rejoin before the start of the next round and the team doesn't have another player ready to take their place, then their opponent must sit a player to make the next round after the drop start 7vs7. A team with 6 or fewer players at the start of a round will forfeit the rest of the set, and gets a minimum of 5 minutes to find a 7th player to continue playing. If they can't get back to minimum 7 players, then the rest of the match can be claimed by their opponent as default.

The administration will consult with the referee who was present and review match logs to decide what will be done in the case of Gardas vs. TCB.




I cannot think of any way this is anything but a bad rule.

I assume the thinking behind it is that if a player drops it is usually for reasons beyond their control and their team should not suffer because of it. However forcing the other team to suddenly choose a player to drop is componding, not resolving, the problem.

Also not all drops are accidental, this allows another way of gaming the system.


Erminas

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Re: [BCM] Group Stage Results - BLUE DIVISION
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2018, 10:31:07 AM »
What has World come to, I actually agree with OGL...

In addition to what these two have posted, have in mind that this tournament has pretty nice Prize pool and when that is at stake some people tend to push rules all the way to the limit. So I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we were to see "sudden disconnections" on the teams that are not doing well in matches.
                                                                                                                                                                   

Habrak

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Re: [BCM] Group Stage Results - BLUE DIVISION
« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2018, 10:32:01 AM »
Exactly, it's an 8v8 tournament, why would we even think of benefiting the team that does not gather the said amount of players. I also agree with OGL(oof) that nobody could've expected this kinda rule to be written down as competitive warband is not played this kinda weird way. I also understand that signing up to the tournament we are obliged to read the rules, which seems to be a problem in this case, but it may be the last moment to change anything in the rules, since we are still in qualifiers.


+for erminas, this **** is abusable
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 10:42:55 AM by Habrak »

Tardet

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Re: [BCM] Group Stage Results - BLUE DIVISION
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2018, 10:40:57 AM »
While I perfectly understand the issue raised (and actually agree with it being rather problematic and abusable), best would be to discuss this in the appropriate topic here, so we let this thread clear of any off-topic discussions and this regardless of their actual relevance regarding the tournament's future.

Thanks in advance!
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