Author Topic: Viking Conquest Reforged Edition Female Char Power Gaming Guide(minor spoilers)  (Read 6898 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

kalarhan

  • Python Saint
  • Count
  • *
  • Use Q&A thread, not a PM :)
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Neutral
  • WBNWVCWF&S
I can't guarantee it isn't something about my behavior causing this

it may simple depend on the battle advantage. If the AI army is on defensive mode they will stay back (lord including). It is a different thingy when they are on charging mode (they are attacking or have the advantage).

Tingyun

  • Knight at Arms
  • *
  • Hooded Horse Inc., an Indie Game Studio in Texas
    • Steam - hoodedhorse
    • Twitter - @HoodedHorseInc
    • View Profile
    • Hooded Horse
  • Faction: Neutral
I don't think so--even if the enemy lord has the advantage, he still stays back with his main force. This is true even if his soldier horsemen charge, so the lord's behavior cannot be the result of a general defensive posture.

It is possible if their advantage was truly overwhelming--say, a solo player attacked a lord party--then the lord would charge. I cannot say, as I haven't tried. But in normal circumstances, when they do engage in their shield taunt/war cry behavior, they behave reasonably.

Most likely it is the shield taunt/war cry type AI that causes this. They behave very distinctly in battles--they line their men up, and do an inspiring session riding back and forth a bit in front of them. Very dangerous for a player to interrupt, with all the throwing spears at the ready from his entire line of infantry, but also a very fun and challenging bit of heroics to attempt.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 02:23:39 AM by Tingyun »

kalarhan

  • Python Saint
  • Count
  • *
  • Use Q&A thread, not a PM :)
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Neutral
  • WBNWVCWF&S
the lord's behavior cannot be the result of a general defensive posture.

lord is just a troop on the army, but on a different division. So depending on what the AI decides to do (stay back and wait, or go on and charge) it will apply to the army as a whole, which means that horse troops will just move faster than infantry.

VC added a lot of depth to the general combat (in relation to Native Warband), as to simulate a actual battle (and not a quick skirmish like in Warband), but there are still limitations.

a lot of discussions, tests, code, more discussions, were part of the process  :mrgreen:. The first 6 months of the game (1.0 to 2.0) was really intense on all mechanics and features for the DLC. It may even changed in the recent patches (last 18 months), as I don't play vanilla anymore (other than a quick test section for the Tweaks Tool), so I am cautions on my comment for any AI related behavior. My mods are too heavily modified and memory is easily tricked  :lol:

Tingyun

  • Knight at Arms
  • *
  • Hooded Horse Inc., an Indie Game Studio in Texas
    • Steam - hoodedhorse
    • Twitter - @HoodedHorseInc
    • View Profile
    • Hooded Horse
  • Faction: Neutral
No, not in VC. What you describe is accurate to other mods though.

Again, I think the shield taunt/war cry specific AI that applies to VC lords changes their behavior. They have their own scripted little dance in front of the battle lines, and do not behave like normal units. It is actually VERY impressive, they ride back and forth in front of their men, a wonderful touch by the VC devs.

It is even possible this change is unintended--as I said, they join up with their shieldwall after their little parade, but if the battle moves location they often end up stuck.

So, for example, recently I saved an East anglia army near Dunwic. I kiled some 30-40 Danes, and at the end only I and the enemy lord were left standing.

Where was he? About 1/4 the map over, where the battle began, but not where it had ended, standing still and refusing to move much (he'd dance a bit back and forth with me as I dualed him, but he clearly was trying to maintain that general position). I've seen that happen several times.

When it doesn't happen, they are right in the midst of their men, as they should be.

In sum--no, while it might be an unintended consequence of the shield taunt/war cry behavior, VC lords do not behave like other units in the army. You might be right this is a recent change though--for all I know, them getting stuck is actually a bug related to the shield taunts being broken in recent patches. But if it is a bug, it is a good one, because 9/10 times it improves their behavior and helps them stay alive. ;)
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 03:09:35 AM by Tingyun »

Tingyun

  • Knight at Arms
  • *
  • Hooded Horse Inc., an Indie Game Studio in Texas
    • Steam - hoodedhorse
    • Twitter - @HoodedHorseInc
    • View Profile
    • Hooded Horse
  • Faction: Neutral
oh, forgot to comment on this:

"other than a quick test section for the Tweaks Tool"

You are such a hero for maintaining it for us. Really, Kalarhan, though we sometimes disagree and I enjoy debating back and forth, you have my deep gratitude for maintaining this for all of us fellow VC fans. Thank you!

zhoumu

  • Recruit
  • *
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Neutral
gunning down the leader
Or a simpler alternative would be to use VC system of dueling (battle menu), that happens BEFORE the battle.

But that lowers the general's disposition by 10. In my female char play through I try to make friends with everybody, so I normally don't initiate a battle on my own.

zhoumu

  • Recruit
  • *
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Neutral
In sum, on Good AI settings and full difficulty, in general VC lords behave pretty intelligently to protect themselves, making it a fun and worthy challenge to kill them.

Fair point indeed.

zhoumu

  • Recruit
  • *
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Neutral
Also I'd like to ask, what is the best way to manage lords' disposition in your kingdom? without using any mod.
-Is there any real setbacks for having lords at -100 disposition?
-Feasts are not feasible since: a) your hall gets crowded by lords whom you don't want, and b)it doesn't seem to last long enough.
-preparing a heap of gold?
-doing quests?
-so the best solution should be: just keep 4-5 lords in your kingdom? What if the AI has 100 lords against you?

BoomBap

  • Recruit
  • *
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Nord
Also I'd like to ask, what is the best way to manage lords' disposition in your kingdom? without using any mod.
-Is there any real setbacks for having lords at -100 disposition?
-Feasts are not feasible since: a) your hall gets crowded by lords whom you don't want, and b)it doesn't seem to last long enough.
-preparing a heap of gold?
-doing quests?
-so the best solution should be: just keep 4-5 lords in your kingdom? What if the AI has 100 lords against you?

1. Yes, the lord can defect with the fiefs he holds(garrisoned fiefs,not villages)

2. Reject the lords. Their personality won't change, so you want nothing to do with them anyway.(Tho I agree, it's a **** feature, they come back in a few days)

3. Good ways to improve relations are: Change marshals accordingly, Give them gold(expensive),
(click to show/hide)
And most importantly: Plan ahead! Think through how you going to keep relations before recruiting, have some fiefs ready to give etc.
I generally never do quests for lords because they all offer crappy quests which include loosing relations with villages/other lords/kingdoms. Sometimes you can rescue them or their relative from prison, but that's rare.

4. I find it best to have fewer strong lords than many small parties. I have 3 lords for Scandinavia and 4 lords for Ireland. Their party sizes range from 500-1100. Nobody even attacks them so they never fall prisoner and they can easily take forts without my help.  Generally the kingdoms who have more lords than land are very unstable and their lords defect all the time. Their parties are so small you don't even care if like 8 of them attack you.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 08:21:54 AM by BoomBap »

kalarhan

  • Python Saint
  • Count
  • *
  • Use Q&A thread, not a PM :)
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Neutral
  • WBNWVCWF&S
sometimes disagree (...) maintaining this for all of us fellow VC fans

if you only talk with people you agree with, then you are only talking with yourself  :mrgreen:

VC Tweaks Tool is a example. I may disagree with a lot of tweaks inside it (as in, I don't use them on my own mods), but I added and tested them anyway, as the list was based on what the community requested on the Tweaks thread, not my personal taste. Let each player choose how they want to experiment their game.

Also I'd like to ask, what is the best way to manage lords' disposition in your kingdom? without using any mod.
-Is there any real setbacks for having lords at -100 disposition?
-Feasts are not feasible since: a) your hall gets crowded by lords whom you don't want, and b)it doesn't seem to last long enough.
-preparing a heap of gold?
-doing quests?
-so the best solution should be: just keep 4-5 lords in your kingdom? What if the AI has 100 lords against you?

Meta game for court life is still sort of simple even in VC (we have high hopes for Bannerlord on this). Couple consequences of having lords not liking you: they will not answer your call (talk to your NPC in a fort to see this option); they are likely to join a rebellion to support their old king (altho rebellions themselves are rare).

Can you do feasts with a female char? I don't recall if that was added on VC. The crowed problem is a consequence of the small hall (to reflect the times), while on Native you had a big castle. This is something that works best if you have a small kingdom only. Unless you mod your game, I don't think it works well for big kingdoms.

You should look for lords with personalities that agree with you (your actions) and that are less likely to lose relations with things like sharing fiefs. Bribing is always good.

AI recruiting depends on their economy (like yours), so focus on cutting that down. Take their trade towns (many times more taxes than normal ones). Destroy caravans. Burn villages. Stuff like that. That way lords will have to depend on smaller armies (no money to recruit) made of weaker troops.

Probably the safest way to enjoy the campaign is to set a goal like: unify England, or Scotland, or become High King of Ireland. Not conquer the entire map. The latter makes shortcomings of MB formula too obvious.

zhoumu

  • Recruit
  • *
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Neutral

3. Good ways to improve relations are: Change marshals accordingly, Give them gold(expensive),
(click to show/hide)
And most importantly: Plan ahead! Think through how you going to keep relations before recruiting, have some fiefs ready to give etc.

Too bad I already got the dungeon master special trait. How much relations boost do you get per wine anyways?

Tingyun

  • Knight at Arms
  • *
  • Hooded Horse Inc., an Indie Game Studio in Texas
    • Steam - hoodedhorse
    • Twitter - @HoodedHorseInc
    • View Profile
    • Hooded Horse
  • Faction: Neutral
Great advice Kalarhan! To ask a followup question to your post, do you know whether some of the towns have halls with more scene "spaces" for lords for feasts? Or are they all the same in max number of lords appearing when attending, however they look?

kalarhan

  • Python Saint
  • Count
  • *
  • Use Q&A thread, not a PM :)
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Neutral
  • WBNWVCWF&S
How much relations boost do you get per wine anyways?

+1 or +2

werty

  • Recruit
  • *
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Neutral
An interesting guide to read but for this part:



Quote
4. The extra money at the beginning of the game is mainly used to improve weapons and armor, buy horses (heavy) for companions and build buses.
5. At the end of the game, everything costs money: buy and improve troops, feed and maintain your troops, improve settlements, increase supplies for infamous lords ... Then money is scarce, do not waste not!

For a power gaming guide, would you not accept to acquire your equipment (in addition to gold, xp, fame, etc.) on targets such as Vikings and deserters while concentrating on increasing the level of your character and your companions? The extra money should be invested mid-game in the mercenary / lord phase while later it will indeed be wise to update your best equipment when the money will no longer be a problem.


Apart from that, does any of you know any youtubers (or other similar content creators) who will have produced similar content on their platform please?

zhoumu

  • Recruit
  • *
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Neutral
Sure Vikinrs drop good loot, but they scale with you too! So don't expect to really profit from them in the beginning.

I just killed 90 enemy troops (over 1/3 of them tier 5+) with just me and my companions (Fully geared with Bear Brynies, Hersir Helms and widow maker/champion swords, they drop dead after killing 2 each...leaving me alone against the crowd). I probably killed around 60 with just my lance, tho I switched horses 4-5 times. And I'm a chick! with 14 STR and 10 DEX.  What a battle.

Afterwards, I got 18 renown on top of my 1700+.