Author Topic: Dev Blog 16/11/17  (Read 13153 times)

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Octaviux

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Re: Dev Blog 16/11/17
« Reply #105 on: November 26, 2017, 04:55:25 PM »
I've read the ARMA for close to a decade, this is amazing to see this crossover here with M&B.  I hope kick-back isn't too debilitating as I always turn off NPC shield bash and kicking as it's too unfair in hordes of NPCs.

Lightzy

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Re: Dev Blog 16/11/17
« Reply #106 on: December 17, 2017, 11:04:09 PM »
The animated gif shown in the devlog indicates 2 mistakes in the combat system, I think.



1) A horseman astride a horse can't engage his core muscles. Core muscles are engaged by the feet first, which have to be firmly planted.  Core muscles also power 80% if not more of the swing.
Thus there's really no way that he could do 150+dmg (which I assume is 'critical hit' level) unless all of that damage is attributed to the headshot. Get on a horse and try to swing a big two handed staff. Try it.

A small one handed sabre aided by the speed of a horse is one thing, but a two handed weapon requiring core muscles to swing? No way whatsoever.


2) You can't "wind your core muscles" turning your body sideways in order to gather power for a swing and just hold it there. The power is lost immediately. The motion has to be back and immediately forward to have a spring type direction of energy.
Try this too. "wind" your body (like for a table tennis shot) and hold it there for 10 seconds. Now see what kind of power you have in your forward swing. It's all clumsy and weak, trying to get the muscles re-engaged.

The 'winding' motion has to be quickly followed by a swing or the power is lost

« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 11:19:58 PM by Lightzy »
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AmateurHetman

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Re: Dev Blog 16/11/17
« Reply #107 on: December 17, 2017, 11:21:35 PM »
The animated gif shown in the devlog indicates 2 mistakes in the combat system, I think.



1) A horseman astride a horse can't engage his core muscles. Core muscles power 80% if not more of a swing.
Thus there's really no way that he could do 147dmg (which I assume is 'critical hit' level). Get on a horse and try to swing a big two handed staff. Try it.
Especially when the horse is nearly immobile in the gif so there's no added momentum. But regardless, the swing itself would be so weak as to barely call it a swing.
A small one handed sabre aided by the speed of a horse is one thing, but a two handed weapon requiring core muscles to swing? No way whatsoever.

2) You can't "wind your core muscles" turning your body sideways in order to gather power for a swing and just hold it there. The power is lost immediately. The motion has to be back and immediately forward to have a spring type direction of energy.
Try this too. "wind" your body (like for a table tennis shot) and hold it there for 10 seconds. Now see what kind of power you have in your forward swing. It's all clumsy and weak, trying to get the muscles re-engaged.

The 'winding' motion has to be quickly followed by a swing or the power is lost

The swing does seem slow, but if the player has high power strike, that damage would be possible.

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Re: Dev Blog 16/11/17
« Reply #108 on: December 17, 2017, 11:34:45 PM »
The animated gif shown in the devlog indicates 2 mistakes in the combat system, I think.



1) A horseman astride a horse can't engage his core muscles. Core muscles are engaged by the feet first, which have to be firmly planted.  Core muscles also power 80% if not more of the swing.
Thus there's really no way that he could do 150+dmg (which I assume is 'critical hit' level) unless all of that damage is attributed to the headshot. Get on a horse and try to swing a big two handed staff. Try it.

A small one handed sabre aided by the speed of a horse is one thing, but a two handed weapon requiring core muscles to swing? No way whatsoever.


2) You can't "wind your core muscles" turning your body sideways in order to gather power for a swing and just hold it there. The power is lost immediately. The motion has to be back and immediately forward to have a spring type direction of energy.
Try this too. "wind" your body (like for a table tennis shot) and hold it there for 10 seconds. Now see what kind of power you have in your forward swing. It's all clumsy and weak, trying to get the muscles re-engaged.

The 'winding' motion has to be quickly followed by a swing or the power is lost
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Re: Dev Blog 16/11/17
« Reply #109 on: December 17, 2017, 11:54:08 PM »
The animated gif shown in the devlog indicates 2 mistakes in the combat system, I think.



1) A horseman astride a horse can't engage his core muscles. Core muscles are engaged by the feet first, which have to be firmly planted.  Core muscles also power 80% if not more of the swing.
Thus there's really no way that he could do 150+dmg (which I assume is 'critical hit' level) unless all of that damage is attributed to the headshot. Get on a horse and try to swing a big two handed staff. Try it.

A small one handed sabre aided by the speed of a horse is one thing, but a two handed weapon requiring core muscles to swing? No way whatsoever.


2) You can't "wind your core muscles" turning your body sideways in order to gather power for a swing and just hold it there. The power is lost immediately. The motion has to be back and immediately forward to have a spring type direction of energy.
Try this too. "wind" your body (like for a table tennis shot) and hold it there for 10 seconds. Now see what kind of power you have in your forward swing. It's all clumsy and weak, trying to get the muscles re-engaged.

The 'winding' motion has to be quickly followed by a swing or the power is lost

At the moment he swinged his hafted blade, his winding was already finished.
Horse was going onwards therefore -even though small since the horse was slow- it gave him a speed bonus.
I dont see a problem in the gif.
But if there is a problem with this overall yeah it should be urgently fixed.

Lightzy

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Re: Dev Blog 16/11/17
« Reply #110 on: December 18, 2017, 05:04:02 AM »
At the moment he swinged his hafted blade, his winding was already finished.

That's the problem. Of course it's not a real problem because on horseback it's impossible in any case, but in general the problem is that his winding is finished long before the strike.
If your winding finishes long before the strike then your strike will be very weak because that's not how muscles work.

The strike has to happen exactly at the end of the wind for the power to be at an optimum.
I think that beyond being realistic, this will also add a lot to the combat system because it will add more of a timing component to the combat system.
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Lolbash

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Re: Dev Blog 16/11/17
« Reply #111 on: December 18, 2017, 04:48:21 PM »
At the moment he swinged his hafted blade, his winding was already finished.

That's the problem. Of course it's not a real problem because on horseback it's impossible in any case, but in general the problem is that his winding is finished long before the strike.
If your winding finishes long before the strike then your strike will be very weak because that's not how muscles work.

The strike has to happen exactly at the end of the wind for the power to be at an optimum.
I think that beyond being realistic, this will also add a lot to the combat system because it will add more of a timing component to the combat system.

Actually yes this is a great idea. This could reduce the damage of feinting and holding so that players are encouraged to spam a little more.

AmateurHetman

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Re: Dev Blog 16/11/17
« Reply #112 on: December 18, 2017, 06:17:32 PM »
About 4 minutes in you can see him swinging a spear two handed on horseback. He isn't even trying to swing it as hard as possible, and the stirrups should give enough platform to engage core muscles enough. won't be as hard a swing as on foot, but not weak either.

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Edit-
I thought this was well researched and informative:
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 08:08:51 PM by AmateurHetman »

Innocent Flower

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Re: Dev Blog 16/11/17
« Reply #113 on: December 18, 2017, 08:57:26 PM »
Wow that's really useful. I've been looking for mounted combat knowledge for a while now. Cheers.


Also, I believe Bannerlord uses higher numbers for damage/health than Warband.

AmateurHetman

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Re: Dev Blog 16/11/17
« Reply #114 on: December 18, 2017, 09:30:26 PM »
Wow that's really useful. I've been looking for mounted combat knowledge for a while now. Cheers.


Also, I believe Bannerlord uses higher numbers for damage/health than Warband.

No worrires.
I'll definitely research some more. I'm curious about the treatises from Italy etc. which are a good primary source. I hope Taleworlds are interested too.
I'll keep posting any of my findings here, or maybe i'll make a separate thread in the citadel.

Did they mention that damage/health values are greater? that's interesting.