Highlander vs Armoured axeman vs Huscarl vs Legionnaire vs Armoured pikemen in siege.

I've been attacking many Empire castles and towns recently in order to build my own kingdom, including a heavily fortified town such as Janos and Cez. And I've seen some strange things in how my soldiers and Empire Garrison did in the battle.

First, it seems like my Armoured axeman is doing even better than my Huscarls, I believed it's because Armoured axeman can spawned with shorter axe, while Huscarls axe can stuck in a tight siege Armoured axemen don't have a problem with this. Based on this could mean that the best non-noble, human infantry is Highlander because they wield short axe and have superior stats over Huscarl. If this is true then it's great for me because I have lots of Highlanders in my army that I never use.

Second, Legionnaire, the infantry I used most simply because they're so easy to get, is not as strong as I hoped them to be. Could this be because of they use broadsword and not axe like the fierds? Or simply their stats is inferior to the fierds infantry? I think they might do better in siege defense because they have broadhead.

Third, I've seen Armoured pikemen used by the Empire garrison did surprisingly well, killed more of my men that I expected. I always viewed them as a crappy unit, maybe I was wrong?

What about you guys, what is the best non-noble/noldor infantry in your opinion. Right now I'm lean toward Highlanders.

You're wrong almost on all accounts and do not use troops properly. To understand them better you may read something like http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,255110.msg7954757.html#msg7954757 Section 7.

Basically short weapons are better in ONLY one situation - close melee on the wall AFTER breaking through choke point. But troops with short weapons only have almost no chance in breaking through choke point where they'll be unable to hit defenders. Huscarls have universal weapons and perform well in both these stages unlike FAA. Ideal offensive siege infantry would have 2 melee weapons (longer for choke point and short fast axes for close melee after) but AI cannot switch properly anyway so FH axes are good compromise.

Legionnaires are slow and their best application is field battles when they're mixed with other infantry to compensate. They provide shield protection, binding enemy and throwing weapons in point blank range but cannot endure strong pressure as more specialized infantry. Jacks of all trades masters of none.

EAP are excellent troops but again (as any Empire troops) they should act in team with other soldiers.

Your huscarls are just having bad day.

They are better then AA in everyway.

Is it purly about combat effectivness, or do you consider availability of the units as well?

Nobody would be crazy enough to assault directly at a wall. I always have ranged units raining down enemy defenders first to thinning them so my infantry can set foot on the wall, so in this case shorter weapon will still favor siege battle yes? If you see Janos you'll know long weapon like fighting axe is almost useless. I'm not an Empire fans anyway except their KO, prefer getting good units from other faction and mixing them together more. Maybe I didn't use unit properly but Janos and Cez is mine regardless yes?

Well maybe but my Huscarls are just having a bad day indeed...

Mixed of both, and now what about Highlander? Superior stats over Huscarls and with short axe. Seems like a great unit to me.

Couple of things:

1. If the empire pikes are spawning with halberds rather than the pikes then they are excellent melee troops even in tight quarters like a siege (The long polearms allow them to strike from behind friendly troops or from more oblique angles). If they spawn with the shield and spear combo, then they do basically nothing.

2. Legionaires are going to perform worse than highlanders and huscarls, but you don't build legionaires to get the best troops - you train legionaires because they are the best all round unit upgraded from a level 20 unit.

3. Huscarls should be better than AAs in almost all cases because AFAIK they always spawn with a shield.

4. Single instance anecdotal evidence doesn't prove a theory, repeated performances of comparable tests do.

5. If you want to hold or assault a castle, just build EACs. They are better than any other non-noble unit in the game at that particular job.

You think EACs > RRs?

You really seem to be a big fan of crossbows...

Honestly,in 3.7063,RKs are best non-noble footmans.
They can even crush hascarls easily when they are the same numble.

Lord-Latis said:

Honestly,in 3.7063,RKs are best non-noble footmans.
They can even crush hascarls easily when they are the same numble.

Click to expand...

kierguards lose to huscarls in even numbers. Tested extensively...

Kierguards are okay but the only upside they have to other infantry is that they naturally come with RR's

Also you get legionnaires for their shield support and the broadheads, the real punch in empire infantry are those 2H-wielding Gladiators and Immortals although I feel like Immos got nerfed in the new version (or maybe Pendor troops just got buffed? I'm on my first run for 3.71) I actually rate Empire infantry the overall best because they simply melt enemy cavalry when you control them the right way. Also xbows are neat.

Lord-Latis said:

Honestly,in 3.7063,RKs are best non-noble footmans.
They can even crush hascarls easily when they are the same numble.

Click to expand...

The best thing about kierguards is their armor, and are best at reinforcing garrisons for a cheap price, but that's it. You'd be better off using Huscarls or Legionnaires.

Strange no one mentioned D'Shar Bladesmen, my favorite infantry?  They are extremely easy to train up.  In open terrain, their quickness makes them the best infantry, they can get their attacks in first most of the time.  They always come with a shield.  Their long swords have superior reach and are fast, which is why they perform so much better than what you may expect. 

They don't have the burst 1-hit kill potential of Empire Legionaires thanks to their thrown javelins.  They don't have the high HP of Fierds, but 1 vs. 1, usually the Bladesman will win.

Forgot to mention that in sieges, their long reach is great for both offensive and defensive sieges, and of course shields are a must.  Specialized infantry such as Empire Pikemen with Halberds can be better, but Bladesmen are the best main infantry for sieges as well.  Only Huscarls in defense might be better thanks to their high HP.

azxcvbnm321 said:

Forgot to mention that in sieges, their long reach is great for both offensive and defensive sieges, and of course shields are a must.  Specialized infantry such as Empire Pikemen with Halberds can be better, but Bladesmen are the best main infantry for sieges as well.  Only Huscarls in defense might be better thanks to their high HP.

Click to expand...

oh yea dshar castles are like meat grinders: you put your hard-earned denars and troops in one side and meat and blood comes back out that same side because the other side is unfortunately already filled with death and more death

I still like empire more because they actually have a bit more... complex troop composition, although it's more that I hate the bullcrap about some dshar troops not reliably getting horses (I have OCD and it bothers me)

                There is the rub,Numbers.Numbers as in cost per troop,as in length of time to train them up.In terms of numbers,more Bladesmen and Kierguards beat the Huscarls for me just because they take longer to train and cost more.I always feel a little sad when I lose a Huscarl due the fact that it took so long to train them up-not so for Kierguards and  Bladesmen who are awesome in siege defense,both are tough and fast,Kierguards due to their short fast axes and Bladesmen with their crazy high agility and athleticism.Granted a Huscarl can be worth the same as 2 Kierguards or 2Bladesmen but not 3 or 4.
Yes,I've seen 1 Huscarl take on 2 Kierguards or 2 Bladesmen and win(barely) but never against 3 or 4.

The cost/unit matter is soley for garrison purposes to keep your treasury balanced, and as such, a high amount of tier 4 troops mixed up with the odd tier 5 troop is perfect because the player will usually run towards a siege and help defend it. Same goes for the training time, it matters little because by midgame you´ll have more then enough training skill spread out on your NPCs and yourself to pump out a horde of high level warriors every other tick. The limiting factor here is rather availability of recruits than anything else.

On the offense, all units are equally horrible to face, the more if you don´t have supporting archers to clear the break in the wall or can´t due to the castle layout. Just throwing men against the walls is outright silly, unless you outnumber the opposition that vastly that you can immediatly sweep up over the walls and get to stage 2 of the siege.

On a personal prefence and sidenote, I really prefer the Armoured Axers over the Huscarls. They´re awesome, especially with the 2h axe and easier to come by. Same goes for the armoured piker. Couple them with EAC/EC´s and they´re a force to be reckoned with.