I think "aids" is a game-breaker

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ogami_ito

Sergeant
This mod looks good and its fun.  I think there is a big problem with the "aid" feature though.

I think the idea for this feature - non-combat heros - is a good idea.  The problem is that the current implementation needs to be disabled until this feature is made better.

Currently, the aid-hero's team skills don't work unless he/she does not go into battle.  This means that the "aid" gets no XP.  It also means that critical skills like surgery don't work (because it only works when in battle)

Please correct me if i'm wrong. 

I also noticed that aids do not get battle-win XP because the game treats them as not in the group.
 
ogami_ito said:
This mod looks good and its fun.  I think there is a big problem with the "aid" feature though.

I think the idea for this feature - non-combat heros - is a good idea.  The problem is that the current implementation needs to be disabled until this feature is made better.

Currently, the aid-hero's team skills don't work unless he/she does not go into battle.  This means that the "aid" gets no XP.  It also means that critical skills like surgery don't work (because it only works when in battle)

Please correct me if i'm wrong. 

I also noticed that aids do not get battle-win XP because the game treats them as not in the group.
Click to expand...

Personally I find it totally useless and cumbersome, if it at least would have been made as a measure of rescuing the main hero in the most drastical situations ( "the aid" as a squire who carries you away from combat when you're critically wounded and incapacitated for the next battle, so you don't get caught as a captive...).

But what about how funny is that you can attack any castle and slaughter at free will, careful to retreat just in time, when they are a few? That way you can diminsh their numbers all over the empire, don't get caught by enemies while sieging and the big bonus: no sub-zero reputation! You are still their friend and hero! What a generous mod...
 
I saw this title and thought ithis thread was about how someone else having a serious STD would prevent you from getting your game on with them.  :shock:

Anyway, I think aides would be more helpful if you were allowed to have more heroes.  With only four heroes to recruit, the use of an aide is diminished.  If there were more to use, then I'd seriously consider developing heroes as aides.

EDIT: Nevermind.  Now that I realize you can recruit enemy NPCs this is less of an issue.
 
Hi, you didn't read my post in the bugs thread.  I didn't change that "aids" status to begin with and I'm having this problem.
 
Still off-topic, isnt it? It belongs into bugs not here.

So lets return to topic. Maybe switching off the aides-system would be a solution till its further developed to avoid the nuisances it seems to bring now.
 
I hate the aid-feature, it is useless and annoying. I avoid this feature, by cheating my hero. For example: If Martha reaches INT 12, I cheat my hero skills(surgery, woundtreatment and first-aid) up to 4.

I will be very thankful, if you make a patch, that removes the aid-feature.
 
Sorry for not weighing in here fore a little while, school and job-search and things have been heating up.  I'm also sorry you guys think aides are a game-breaker.  Remember though, it's a tool in a toolbox.  Next patch when you can recruit captains and lords this feature will be much more useful.  Also, I know there are a few bugs in there, and some of them are already worked out, it will be much more playable.
 
Ashes42 said:
Sorry for not weighing in here fore a little while, school and job-search and things have been heating up.  I'm also sorry you guys think aides are a game-breaker.  Remember though, it's a tool in a toolbox.  Next patch when you can recruit captains and lords this feature will be much more useful.  Also, I know there are a few bugs in there, and some of them are already worked out, it will be much more playable.
Click to expand...

What I don't see is why there has to be a division between heroes who can fight and heroes whose skills contribute to the party.  After all, the player fights & his skills contribute to the party, and it's not as if you're tracking or pathfinding during the fight anyway.  Instead you get the bother of having heroes who never get experience.  Sure, eventually there may be added functionality, but even then is there a need for this division?
 
Well the intention is for the character to be an adviser, they are either someone hired to give you advise in particular or to work for you (not to risk their life for you,)  or someone whose skills are so valuable that they need protecting, and you assign them to do only that.  The guy next to you on your throne telling you the weeks earnings isn't going to jump in front of an arrow for you, he is not a bodyguard.  It will make a little more sense when we have recruitable and killable characters.
 
Ashes42 said:
Well the intention is for the character to be an adviser, they are either someone hired to give you advise in particular or to work for you (not to risk their life for you,)  or someone whose skills are so valuable that they need protecting, and you assign them to do only that.  The guy next to you on your throne telling you the weeks earnings isn't going to jump in front of an arrow for you, he is not a bodyguard.  It will make a little more sense when we have recruitable and killable characters.
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That doesn't really fit, though, since you can switch it back and forth.  So he's an adviser who won't risk his life for you one week, but he's a bodyguard who won't give you advice the next?  It doesn't make any sense.

This particular change makes heroes much less useful, a lot more bother to deal with, and introduces a bunch of bugs into the system.  And having an adviser who doesn't ever advance is completely pointless.
 
Currently yes aids have no real use, however im guessing though once permanent NPC deaths are introduced you might be thinking a bit differently when your 6 ranked trader gets turned into a pincushion and everything becomes oh so expensive again.

Yes the current system of non-combat aids not getting a lot of experiance needs to change but im sure ashes has a plan for that.
 
HSharp said:
Currently yes aids have no real use, however im guessing though once permanent NPC deaths are introduced you might be thinking a bit differently when your 6 ranked trader gets turned into a pincushion and everything becomes oh so expensive again.

Yes the current system of non-combat aids not getting a lot of experiance needs to change but im sure ashes has a plan for that.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking that introducing permanent NPC deaths won't be an improvement...it's not something I'm clamoring for.
 
gwharris said:
Ashes42 said:
Well the intention is for the character to be an adviser, they are either someone hired to give you advise in particular or to work for you (not to risk their life for you,)  or someone whose skills are so valuable that they need protecting, and you assign them to do only that.  The guy next to you on your throne telling you the weeks earnings isn't going to jump in front of an arrow for you, he is not a bodyguard.  It will make a little more sense when we have recruitable and killable characters.
Click to expand...

That doesn't really fit, though, since you can switch it back and forth.  So he's an adviser who won't risk his life for you one week, but he's a bodyguard who won't give you advice the next?  It doesn't make any sense.

This particular change makes heroes much less useful, a lot more bother to deal with, and introduces a bunch of bugs into the system.  And having an adviser who doesn't ever advance is completely pointless.
Click to expand...

your right in that they don't level up from fighting, but there are other ways to get exp, training skill ahem ahem, and it makes since that your economy advisor shouldn't know more about your countries economy because he spent 8 hours swinging a sword.
 
gwharris said:
HSharp said:
Currently yes aids have no real use, however im guessing though once permanent NPC deaths are introduced you might be thinking a bit differently when your 6 ranked trader gets turned into a pincushion and everything becomes oh so expensive again.

Yes the current system of non-combat aids not getting a lot of experiance needs to change but im sure ashes has a plan for that.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking that introducing permanent NPC deaths won't be an improvement...it's not something I'm clamoring for.
Click to expand...

Neither am I.  I'm hoping there will be an option to turn off NPC deaths, even if it's considered a cheat.  I don't mind cheating a little if it means I have more fun.
 
NPCs are not going to be irreplacable, though they will be valuable.  Otherwise it would not be fun.  Fun is my goal here, I'm not making a game to screw you guys over.  If I put an option into the game to turn off NPC death, you could conceivably either get an entire party of NPCs who can't die, or get a massively overpowered party.  In either case the game will be less fun without NPC death, so I don't even plan on making it an option.  Mind you these NPCs are NOT like rolf and ymira, they are more like Lord Klargus and all his friends.  Do you want to be able to kill the opposing factions men?  They go hand in hand.  (If I made them immortal in your party, but when you send them off on their own they can now die? that would make no sense)
 
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