[NC2016] Nations Cup 2016 - Announcement and Sign Ups

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Sir Marek said:
If anyone fails to understand it, I will illustrate it.

Poland
UK
Germany
France
Turkey
Russia
USA, Mexico, Canada
Ukraine

Ireland
Yugoslavia
Belgie
The Netherlands
Czech republic
Spain
Italy
Finland
Sweden
Austria&Switzerland

You don't need to write, that I put some teams to wrong groups. I just wanted to show, what is my idea.

The first two teams from the second group are 1. Finland and 2. The Netherlands. In the quartefinals Finland face the second team from the first group and The Netherlands face the first team from the first group.
Germany finished on the 7th position and Poland finished on the 8th position. These teams won't play in the quarterfinals.


In my opinion this system brings more entertaining matches, encourages more teams to sign up and more players might get involded into the competitive scene.

Acutaly this would be better:
The first two teams from the second group are 1. Finland and 2. The Netherlands. Finland face the seventh team from the first group and The Netherlands face the eighth team from the first group for two spots in the quarterfinals.
 
16 teams - 8 stronger, 8 weaker

div a for stronger teams

6 teams qualifies

div b for weaker teams

2 teams qualifies

you could make it 5,3 as well
 
Trebron said:
Sir Marek said:
In my opinion this system brings more entertaining matches, encourages more teams to sign up and more players might get involded into the competitive scene.
The only thing your system does well is pushing 2 teams that not really deserve it into quarter-finals. Then we get two extra hyped "amazing", "exciting" 12:0 matches after the group stage. Prize for winning group B is most likely getting rekt by group A team.
If there's some underrated team that wants to prove something they can still do it in the old system, ofc they'll need to play well against proper opponents.
Let's be honest - with PW mod and NW players you're not getting far no matter the system. Your idea penalizes two good teams from div A and probably even more Div B teams - from your example of group B - Finland, Sweden, The Netherlands, Italy and Belgium which would have a chance of qualifying in current system if they play good. Now only 2 of them can go to quarters.
Lack of will to play and players is not a thing you can solve with handicap.


Killfacer said:
Your not thinking outside the box. You are saying sub-optimal ways of running tournaments. You don't base tournament format around the weakest teams getting play time. Make concessions to it if you can sure, but making drastic changes and damaging the chances of the worst of the best teams is totally anti-competitive and unfair.

Sorry if I'm part of those breaking a bit of this enthousiastic circle  brang in by Marek's idea but I've to agree a bit with Trebron and Deacon here.

Despite the idea having many good points that I don't intend to deny for what they're, I would do the same as Deacon did, means encouraging everyone to think the Nation Cup as a whole and not only as a tournament with two differents groups (The big Warband Nations, and the others).

The NationsCup in its competitive aspect intends to determine which is the best warband Nation. No matter how much fun, respect and all other values you can bring have to be taken into account when making this tournament, the main idea remains to show who is the best, as every tournaments. Atleast that is how I see it.

By this statement, any idea which intends to re-balance the group, in order to give more chances to the minors nations advanding further into the knockout stage is wrong by nature. I'm all but not a capatilist person, but If those nations want to go far, they have to fight for it, and if they' cannot, no matter the reasons, then they don't deserve to be that far. It goes for teams (During WNL/ECS for exemple) all the same way because it's what a competitive game is about.

I do understand why people are encouraging such a system. (And if you looks closer at it, those people are often part of the minor Nations) And to be fair, I'm not against it for the pure sake of it. But If you want to do so, that makes you re-thinking the Nation Cup as a whole, in order to re-built it. And looking how much the tournament has delayed, I'm not sure it's a good idea. Neither it is a good thing for the competitive aspect of the game. If you guys are placing fun and enjoyement above everything else, then go for it. But don't tell me your system is more competitive than the old one cause it's simply false.

If I can only bring my experience here, and despite the two community being drastically different, on NW, the 2nd Edition of the Cavalary Nation Cup brang the same idea that Marek did, because during the first edition, Poland proved themselves to be above everyone else and France looked extremly weak in the final against them. So the tournament was built in this idea, with two Division, A and B, with 4 Big Nations in A, and 6 weakers Nations in B. The conclusion of the tournament was that it was way less competitive this way than the old one. Still, it was a good tournament.

So I don't want to show you that your idea is "bad", or "illogical". Not at all. I just want you to see further than your own revendications which are to be given the chance for your Nation to go further in this competition, and look at how you want this Nation Cup to be.

All in all, I'm sure it will be a good tournament. But according to what you choose, it surely won't look the same.
 
Not sure if it's been said, even though I did read through all of the suggestions but; why not have set fixtures within a league making sure everyone plays everyone? That way all teams have equal chance of doing well or badly. Then the top 8 teams go through to knock-out stages or whatever. One major negative I see in that though is that it would take ages.
 
Tardet said:
The NationsCup in its competitive aspect intends to determine which is the best warband Nation. No matter how much fun, respect and all other values you can bring have to be taken into account when making this tournament, the main idea remains to show who is the best, as every tournaments. Atleast that is how I see it.

I'm picking out the most relevant point here.
IMO the NC is not about determining what Nation is the best but it's about having as much Nations as possible participate. Marek's system would encourage smaller Nations to form a team because the chance to get into Quarter Finals is much higher.
I guess that you see this game in a very competitive way but since we can possibly field alot small nations (like Ireland this year as example) we should encourage these teams to form their teams instead of going full competitive.
In the end, even with Marek's system, the best nations will end up on top as every year and those supposedly 'strong' nations that didn't get through the first stage don't deserve to be at the top anyway.
 
One major negative I see in that though is that it would take ages.

Which remains the main problem.

I once thought about doing that for the WNL so the "unfair" ladder people often critize wouldn't make sense anymore but it would simply be too long. Maybe for the Nation Cup it would be a bit shorter, this said, still too long for many people I do believe.

yourNotAlone said:
Tardet said:
The NationsCup in its competitive aspect intends to determine which is the best warband Nation. No matter how much fun, respect and all other values you can bring have to be taken into account when making this tournament, the main idea remains to show who is the best, as every tournaments. Atleast that is how I see it.

I'm picking out the most relevant point here.
IMO the NC is not about determining what Nation is the best but it's about having as much Nations as possible participate. Marek's system would encourage smaller Nations to form a team because the chance to get into Quarter Finals is much higher.
I guess that you see this game in a very competitive way but since we can possibly field alot small nations (like Ireland this year as example) we should encourage these teams to form their teams instead of going full competitive.
In the end, even with Marek's system, the best nations will end up on top as every year and those supposedly 'strong' nations that didn't get through the first stage don't deserve to be at the top anyway.

As I said that's also a way to see it, which I can perfectly understand. It's just not how I see things, but you're right, the old system doesn't provide all the anwser people are expecting, especially concerning the 'minor faction' matters.

I guess it's always about the same problem, where do you put the "competitive line", how do you do that, for which interest (cause we're not professional gamers, we don't get paid for that, so one could argue fun should still remains the most important thing). I personally enjoy Warband because it's the only game I know which provide such a professional E-Sport environnement without really being one, or not one yet for the most optimistic of us.

I think that if we really want an answer, the best thing which I've always been a big fan of, it to ask people themselves. So far, we're 10-15 discussing it, and people could think we give a good reprensentation of the Warband Community. Well maybe we do, but maybe not. By providing a solid vote, where people who vote are concerned by the idea, you make sure that everyone is given a voice to the chapter, but also that your tournament will end up providing the best experience possible for a majority of people.
 
I've read what Marek wrote, but quite frankly I'm totally against the suggestion. It punishes skilled teams, and that is something a tournament that is designed to find out who is the best should totally avoid. The teams you put in Pot 1 are all, expect for the UK maybe, very motivated to win the whole thing, and they train and play alot together. Now you want to create two spots for teams that evidently do not show the same amount of interesst in the tournament, at cost of two of these teams. What factors led to this is secondary, I know there are some players within these teams that want to try their hardest as well, but that does not outweigh all the players on the other rosters you want to punish now. We are here to see interessting play, both on individual and tactical level. Smaller teams, as you have pointed out yourself, have less skilled players, and not are as invested into designing strategies - at least that is what it seems like, because otherwise we wouldn't even discuss this now.

You made the assumption we would end up with a lot more interessting matches. And while that might be the case I have two points against that. First off, the top players and teams will burn out during the groupstage. I've played with AE against Freelancers once, and KURWA three times within a couple of weeks, and it is just rough. We all have real lifes too, and but on the other hand we don't want to drop out of the tournament. I think it is very unhealty to create scenarios where top teams have to constantly face each other, always at cost of their tournament lifes if they lose, without any break. Second point being that two quarterfinal matches will most likely be complete stomps, since two top teams will play two of these Division B teams. Why do you want that? The knockout stage is normally where the tournament reaches its peak in terms of hype, player activity and viewers.

I would rather do what Trebron suggested - create a league like the ECL for the teams that dropped out during the groupstage, being run next to the knockout phase. This way you will have just the same amount of quality matches, and the less skilled teams will have something to play for amongst themselves too - which should hopefully solve the motivational issues.
 
Second point being that two quarterfinal matches will most likely be complete stomps, since two top teams will play two of these Division B teams. Why do you want that? The knockout stage is normally where the tournament reaches its peak in terms of hype, player activity and viewers.
Considering the fact that top teams regullary faced eachother in groupstage, Div A teams that later play in quarters against these 2 from "weak div" will get a big advantage of basically having a week long break. They wouldn't train as hard as other teams that get stronger opponents. Again - punishing strong teams that care about the tournament just to get more playtime for PW mod guys. Nice.
 
Scar said:
The teams you put in Pot 1 are all, expect for the UK maybe, very motivated to win the whole thing
We are VERY motivated Scar! How dare you...you...you cretin! We gather every day discussing top secret plans, training together for 40 days and 40 nights non-stop. We have been gravely insulted sir.
 
Having read all which was written, Trebron's idea of another tourney for the teams that didn't get past the group stage sounds good and has my support.

I think it worked very well in the ECS>ECL, which was my first competitive experience (not counting 1 set I played for Balkans against Turkey, after which Balkans dropped out!!!).

Basically, tournament stays the same, top teams go through the group stage and duke it out in the next phase (so, yay, competitiveness, good matches, hopefully good streaming material)
AND
The teams that didn't get past the group stage go into *someone make a good name for it* tourney and stand a better chance there (also, yay, good matches, hopefully good streaming material).
I think this will incentivise smaller/weaker nations to keep on going and to do better next year, maybe even incentivise their non-native players to stick to native :O

 
Viktor said:
Not sure if it's been said, even though I did read through all of the suggestions but; why not have set fixtures within a league making sure everyone plays everyone? That way all teams have equal chance of doing well or badly. Then the top 8 teams go through to knock-out stages or whatever. One major negative I see in that though is that it would take ages.
Hop into the archives and have a little glance at Nations Cup 2010 :smile:.

The suggestions made are being discussed among the admins now. I happen to like Trebron's and it has the added benefit of not messing with the longstanding, time-honoured NC format.



Announcing here that the application by Belgium and Netherlands to form an alliance has been accepted. I'd like to say thanks to LeRoux and others for their helpfulness in providing us with all the information we requested. Our opinion is that, while The Netherlands could have formed a team on their own, a Belgium team  based on competitive Native players would, if lucky, barely scrape the minimum number of players required and wouldn't have resulted in an enjoyable competition for its players or their opponents.

The USA and Canada application is still pending.

Calamity has joined the team as a Consultant. We have been discussing the best way to make sure that someone with good knowledge of the NA scene works closely with the admin team, for a few weeks now. I'm very pleased to have Calamity taking on the consultant role, which will help us to make the best decisions possible regarding home/away servers and the like.
 
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